JQ Diversion RAAF Tindal 17/12
No Idea Either,
I had the same chat with one of the senior guys at my well known low cost outfit when I was checked to the left seat.
For all the emails and newsletters discussing unnecessary fuel uplift, nobody has ever called me in to the office for extra uplift cup of tea, not once. My take on this is, give it some thought as to what your extra would really be needed for, don't just take it because it feels good. Otherwise, the PIC's discretion is left alone.
Classic example, if you're going from SYD to CNS on a Gin clear day and wish to take TSV as an ALT, I would use the variable from SYD to CNS and whatever tanker is provided as some of the flight fuel from CNS to TSV, the extra uplift is therefore bugger all and I know that I can touch down at TSV with fixed reserve intact.
I had the same chat with one of the senior guys at my well known low cost outfit when I was checked to the left seat.
For all the emails and newsletters discussing unnecessary fuel uplift, nobody has ever called me in to the office for extra uplift cup of tea, not once. My take on this is, give it some thought as to what your extra would really be needed for, don't just take it because it feels good. Otherwise, the PIC's discretion is left alone.
Classic example, if you're going from SYD to CNS on a Gin clear day and wish to take TSV as an ALT, I would use the variable from SYD to CNS and whatever tanker is provided as some of the flight fuel from CNS to TSV, the extra uplift is therefore bugger all and I know that I can touch down at TSV with fixed reserve intact.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Australia
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WN, unless you actually burn that variable reserve for the purposes it is loaded... 
The line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise it's MLW/full tanks everywhere. In Australia, most companies have decided that not carrying an alternate for single runways is where that line is, probably because there are plenty of airports for a given aircraft type that may not always have a full alternate available within a reasonable distance. The PIC subsequently determines the actual fuel order based on all the additional bits of info and their experience.
Fuel policies inherently contain plenty of assumptions, and little latitude for variation. My opinion is that fuel orders are 'bad' when they too have plenty of assumptions, and not much thinking.
I have never, ever been questioned by my company regarding a fuel order, and I am not aware of any other pilot that has been.
The line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise it's MLW/full tanks everywhere. In Australia, most companies have decided that not carrying an alternate for single runways is where that line is, probably because there are plenty of airports for a given aircraft type that may not always have a full alternate available within a reasonable distance. The PIC subsequently determines the actual fuel order based on all the additional bits of info and their experience.
Fuel policies inherently contain plenty of assumptions, and little latitude for variation. My opinion is that fuel orders are 'bad' when they too have plenty of assumptions, and not much thinking.
I have never, ever been questioned by my company regarding a fuel order, and I am not aware of any other pilot that has been.
Legal liability lies with PIC. However any naive manager that attempted to coerce a PIC to take less fuel would take on a vicarious liability themselves. Thats why managers generally don't do it. They want the PIC to take it all.
If you can justify an upload, that is your right as PIC!
If you can justify an upload, that is your right as PIC!
It is all a matter of risk management
if you come from the south into Cairns you overfly Rocky, Mackay, Proserpine, Hamilton Island and Townsville at the very least.
so in reality you only need to consider the likelihood of an event occurring in the period between your PNR Townsville, which is likely to be the bottom of your descent/somewhere near the commencement of the ILS. Yes you will likely land in Townsville with only close to Fixed reserve but what are the chances, given the number of movements per year, of the runway becoming blocked in the time between the commencement of the ILS and touchdown? There often isn't another aircraft between you and the runway.
I reckon the risk is far greater for machines like the 380 and 747 where the number of airports capable of landing an aircraft of that size, particularly the 380, few and far between.
737's, A320's etc are unlikely to get into too much trouble I would think.
The problem, in my view, lies with people who think they must touch down with 2,3,4 tonnes even in an emergency.
And Framer - it would have cost a squillion to have that extra 30 minutes for every sector on the off chance - the cost of a diversion is far less than people think
if you come from the south into Cairns you overfly Rocky, Mackay, Proserpine, Hamilton Island and Townsville at the very least.
so in reality you only need to consider the likelihood of an event occurring in the period between your PNR Townsville, which is likely to be the bottom of your descent/somewhere near the commencement of the ILS. Yes you will likely land in Townsville with only close to Fixed reserve but what are the chances, given the number of movements per year, of the runway becoming blocked in the time between the commencement of the ILS and touchdown? There often isn't another aircraft between you and the runway.
I reckon the risk is far greater for machines like the 380 and 747 where the number of airports capable of landing an aircraft of that size, particularly the 380, few and far between.
737's, A320's etc are unlikely to get into too much trouble I would think.
The problem, in my view, lies with people who think they must touch down with 2,3,4 tonnes even in an emergency.
And Framer - it would have cost a squillion to have that extra 30 minutes for every sector on the off chance - the cost of a diversion is far less than people think
