Will Qantas Mainline ever hire another pilot on a permanent contract?
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pretty sure JC is not. some time ago I recall AIPA brought a case in Fair Work trying to change the QF SH Award to have it cover JC. A full bench majority (2 to 1) threw the case out
And should the jetconnect flying be absorbed back into QANTAS mainline, all jetconnect crew would be welcomed with open arms in mainline. At the bottom of the seniority list like everyone else.
Basically the same as what was done with VANZ.
I expect most JC Pilots would welcome that with open arms.
Basically the same as what was done with VANZ.
I expect most JC Pilots would welcome that with open arms.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"And should the jetconnect flying be absorbed back into QANTAS mainline, all jetconnect crew would be welcomed with open arms in mainline. At the bottom of the seniority list like everyone else"
Actually, it will work the other way around. When the red tailed 787's join the JC fleet there will be mainline pilots offered to crew the aircraft at JC on contract. The 737 op at JC was a test case for much bigger things.
Actually, it will work the other way around. When the red tailed 787's join the JC fleet there will be mainline pilots offered to crew the aircraft at JC on contract. The 737 op at JC was a test case for much bigger things.
6 Apr 2013 00:00 UTC - 6 Apr 2015 23:05 UTC
NZD/AUD close:0.99286 low:0.80614 high:0.99780
Of course exchange rates and the cost of doing business have nothing to do with the IR realists within QF.
NZ dollar surging ahead
NZD/AUD close:0.99286 low:0.80614 high:0.99780
Of course exchange rates and the cost of doing business have nothing to do with the IR realists within QF.
NZ dollar surging ahead
Actually, it will work the other way around. When the red tailed 787's join the JC fleet there will be mainline pilots offered to crew the aircraft at JC on contract. The 737 op at JC was a test case for much bigger things.
Yes Professor, right up the first accident and then let's see what happens then. Full Bench were lent on and ruled on juristrictional grounds. Senior Deputy President Drake summed it up as a "Sham!". The other two were bunnies. Jetconnect is nothing but a labour hire company. They do no sell tickets, they do not pay wages and if someone in Canberra asked the question they do not conform with the QSA. Nothing will be done in Canberra as they are all beholden to big business at the expense of Australian jobs.
With the Aussie dollar on the slide I can't see this as a cheap operation anymore. All this B#$^@*(t when the management should have been working on improving productivity instead of dividing and fighting the staff. ANZ consolidating while QF dividing at the expense of the shareholder. The depreciation($208 million first half better off then same period last year) will run out in 18 months and the tide will go out.
With the Aussie dollar on the slide I can't see this as a cheap operation anymore. All this B#$^@*(t when the management should have been working on improving productivity instead of dividing and fighting the staff. ANZ consolidating while QF dividing at the expense of the shareholder. The depreciation($208 million first half better off then same period last year) will run out in 18 months and the tide will go out.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Yes Professor, right up the first accident and then let's see what happens then"
Why would there be an accident just because JC start operating 787's? Are QF the only adults that can fly big jets?
Why would there be an accident just because JC start operating 787's? Are QF the only adults that can fly big jets?
The 787/777/350/whatever type is coming to mainline, to be flown by mainline crew. Anyone dreaming about an external contract as a way home from the Middle East, or jetconnect getting them, are kidding themselves.
How could jetconnect possibly get them? If they were kiwi rego, every international flight would have to originate in nz with a stopover in Aus.
Read the integration award!!
How could jetconnect possibly get them? If they were kiwi rego, every international flight would have to originate in nz with a stopover in Aus.
Read the integration award!!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south pacific vagrant
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
why assume kiwi rego?
anyway. interestingly, when aipa went to fwa to try to get jet connect conditions the same, it was claimed they were about 40% cheaper.
now, with the 2 currencies at parity, what would that % be?
anyway. interestingly, when aipa went to fwa to try to get jet connect conditions the same, it was claimed they were about 40% cheaper.
now, with the 2 currencies at parity, what would that % be?
Within Australia, yes. From Aus to other countries except NZ, No. Would need to negotiate bilateral rights, and in my opinion unlikely with a NZ AOC. Same reason Jetstar can't operate from NZ to pacific islands on their Aussie AOC.
Bilaterals would need to be negotiated, yes that is the point. A challenge from any overseas country regarding ownership and control would kill this as we have seen in Hong Kong. The US would challenge this in a heartbeat.
Last week the court in Hong Kong was told Jetstar HK was controlled by the Melbourne office, playing into the hands of the Hong Kong Airlines challenging the setup of Jetstar HK.
The Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Act is a different matter and as usual not well thought out. The first service operated with NZ crew domestically in Australia would be challenged at Fair Work Australia and probably the reason why Jetconnect have not tried to do it before now. Wait 12 months and we will be all saying hang on the Kiwis are more expensive!
Last week the court in Hong Kong was told Jetstar HK was controlled by the Melbourne office, playing into the hands of the Hong Kong Airlines challenging the setup of Jetstar HK.
The Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Act is a different matter and as usual not well thought out. The first service operated with NZ crew domestically in Australia would be challenged at Fair Work Australia and probably the reason why Jetconnect have not tried to do it before now. Wait 12 months and we will be all saying hang on the Kiwis are more expensive!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south pacific vagrant
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jq ran "tag" flights around oz with thai crew, fwa didnt care too much about that. 'spose they still do?
whats to stop jetconnect using the same flight number across the tasman with a 738 and then departing oz with a 789?
and airnz run syd-rar i believe. atleast jetconnect is aus owned
whats to stop jetconnect using the same flight number across the tasman with a 738 and then departing oz with a 789?
and airnz run syd-rar i believe. atleast jetconnect is aus owned
Last edited by waren9; 10th Apr 2015 at 21:58.
What do you do with surplus aircrew in these scenarios?
An interesting sidebar issue that no one seems willing to contemplate is what happens to the growing pile of surplus aircrew?
Under the current award, QF mainline likely has 400 surplus pilots on the books...a situation of their own making because they invented JQ and had an idealogical objection to employing most QF pilots in that division. Now they lament that they have too many expensive, underutilised pilots. Q'uelle suprise!
So those posters who expect Jet Connect to be grown at the expense of either mainline or JQ ignore that such a strategy would create even more surplus.
QF pilots are very expensive to make redundant involuntarily. Even the most junior pilot would cost over a hundred K in payments and cascading training costs.
When you project the net savings over a typical planning horizon you don't get any savings at all within the life of the average executive career. But, I suppose that somewhere there is a genius plan that calls for a thousand new hires paying to fly to support 2,000 surplus guys doing nothing on min credit guarantee. I for one certainly hope so.
Under the current award, QF mainline likely has 400 surplus pilots on the books...a situation of their own making because they invented JQ and had an idealogical objection to employing most QF pilots in that division. Now they lament that they have too many expensive, underutilised pilots. Q'uelle suprise!
So those posters who expect Jet Connect to be grown at the expense of either mainline or JQ ignore that such a strategy would create even more surplus.
QF pilots are very expensive to make redundant involuntarily. Even the most junior pilot would cost over a hundred K in payments and cascading training costs.
When you project the net savings over a typical planning horizon you don't get any savings at all within the life of the average executive career. But, I suppose that somewhere there is a genius plan that calls for a thousand new hires paying to fly to support 2,000 surplus guys doing nothing on min credit guarantee. I for one certainly hope so.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Waren9 - JQ used to run a lot of 'tag flights' around the country. They no longer run nearly as many.
Not long after one of the Senate inquiries, where the issue of tag flights came up, the practice heavily reduced and Buchanan left the group to spend more time in the cosmetics industry. I have a feeling that while FWA weren't particularly interested, other government departments were...
As to anyone wondering about the crewing arrangements - Norwegian Air Shuttle are leading the way in creative crewing with their 787 pilot base in Thailand. Lets just hope it doesn't come to that kind of arrangement here.
Not long after one of the Senate inquiries, where the issue of tag flights came up, the practice heavily reduced and Buchanan left the group to spend more time in the cosmetics industry. I have a feeling that while FWA weren't particularly interested, other government departments were...
As to anyone wondering about the crewing arrangements - Norwegian Air Shuttle are leading the way in creative crewing with their 787 pilot base in Thailand. Lets just hope it doesn't come to that kind of arrangement here.
The Department of Immigration allows Flight Attendants entry on a Special Purpose Visa that allowed them to stay in Australia for 30 days. All they worry about is making sure they leave. Jetstar then found out that when these Flight Attendants left to do a service(Honolulu for example) this 30 days was reset. Wonderful precedent for Fly-In Fly-Out mine workers if attempted by the mining industry. Tragedy for Australian workers however. Lucky there is lots of coffee shops for Aussies to work in cause there will be nothing else. The next challenge is for the Tax Department however a Jetstar Flight Attendant earns less than the minimal taxable salary($15000), therefore tax-free.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney, NSW,Australia
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would anyone would want to be on the QF mainline list ?
Everyone in the QF group, and I really mean everyone, including the management trolls need to read and understand
what Australopithecus has said in the above post .......it will be a minor miracle if there is not a CR in QF mainline this year, the optimists will say
that a supposedly soon to be announced order for new aircraft will change everything , but how can it ? even if an order for A350/78-9/777X
is announced tomorrow, how many years will it be before any meaningful number of these aircraft have arrived ? the massive pilot surplus
exists right now,,,,,a direct result of QF management's amazing decisions to create or buy other airlines, snafu.
Everyone in the QF group, and I really mean everyone, including the management trolls need to read and understand
what Australopithecus has said in the above post .......it will be a minor miracle if there is not a CR in QF mainline this year, the optimists will say
that a supposedly soon to be announced order for new aircraft will change everything , but how can it ? even if an order for A350/78-9/777X
is announced tomorrow, how many years will it be before any meaningful number of these aircraft have arrived ? the massive pilot surplus
exists right now,,,,,a direct result of QF management's amazing decisions to create or buy other airlines, snafu.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 60
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why?
Hmmm
More pay than other airlines, good conditions, good guys and gals to fly with.
If YOU would re-read Australopithecus' post you would notice that it is too expensive for the company to use CR, perhaps one more reason that the "optimists" are that way.
For what purpose do you post drivel Jack?
Hmmm
More pay than other airlines, good conditions, good guys and gals to fly with.
If YOU would re-read Australopithecus' post you would notice that it is too expensive for the company to use CR, perhaps one more reason that the "optimists" are that way.
For what purpose do you post drivel Jack?