MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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"One sixth of Group revenue comes from Asian operations". Alan Joyce.
Spin and dissembling.
Give us the Jetstar Asia figures, not the "Group" figures. Leave out the A380, 747 and QF A330 flights that go to Asia everyday. Tell us the whole story instead of hiding it behind blatant sophistry.
Spin and dissembling.
Give us the Jetstar Asia figures, not the "Group" figures. Leave out the A380, 747 and QF A330 flights that go to Asia everyday. Tell us the whole story instead of hiding it behind blatant sophistry.
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Why don't you highlight these figures Alan?
Load factors via BITRE Sept 13.
Aust-Thailand both J* and QF operating A330s
Load factor QF 85.8/ 78.4
Load factor JQ 64.1/ 69.6
Aust-Japan QF using 747s /J* A330 albeit different destination cities.
Load factor QF 74.0 /93.1
Load factor JQ 59.7 /79.4
All Intl services
Load factor QF 78.4/80.7
Load factor JQ 69.6/77.9
These are not blips. The figures go back as far as the BITRE data is available.
Q. At what point do you admit that long haul LCC operations don't work?
Load factors via BITRE Sept 13.
Aust-Thailand both J* and QF operating A330s
Load factor QF 85.8/ 78.4
Load factor JQ 64.1/ 69.6
Aust-Japan QF using 747s /J* A330 albeit different destination cities.
Load factor QF 74.0 /93.1
Load factor JQ 59.7 /79.4
All Intl services
Load factor QF 78.4/80.7
Load factor JQ 69.6/77.9
These are not blips. The figures go back as far as the BITRE data is available.
Q. At what point do you admit that long haul LCC operations don't work?
"The Jetstar businesses in Asia are a great example of Australian entrepreneurship," he said.
Big M, surely they have just breach their (QANTAS) corporate policy regarding senior executives flying on the same aircraft together, usually defined to ensure a successful 'succession plan'.
Can only assume that, Simon H, Hard Licker and Leesley Grunt are not in the running
to replace Little Ghay Clover Boy
Can only assume that, Simon H, Hard Licker and Leesley Grunt are not in the running
to replace Little Ghay Clover Boy
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Sunfish, I think they are more likely to detonate, rather than renovate! They are after the bones, not the carcase. You get more for bones, than flesh. Flesh rots. They will have QF on Ebay, two micro seconds after purchasing it. If that long. If this happens, it will be comfortable chair and popcorn time. The Govt. will go ballistic, Xenophon will have to put on oxygen, the country will start up a wail, ( we don't fly it, but youse blokes better get your FXXXXXG greasy mitts offa our history) the media will love it, the pilots and CC will be in a state of shock, ditto what's left of the ginger beers, there will be weeping in the great halls of SYD/MEL/BNE, et al, Terminals, and down tools in every QF section. Just remember the shock the country went into, when Joyce suddenly pulled the plug, some months ago. No flying Kangaroo? WTF? Then multiply that by 100. I am betting on people power, to keep QF in the air. Regardless of who buys it. After all, what Govt. wants to preside over the death of QF?
On the money CHEER UP!!!! I am a licenced ginger beer on the 777, and have worked on many Asian/European/American operators tripplers who flog the arse out of them, and guess what? THEY DON'T BREAK!!! They just keep on going. Flight crews luv em. Meanwhile I have my intelligence insulted by QF management telling me the trippler is "OLD TECHNOLOGY". But hey what would I know, for I am just a mere bilge rat working at the coalface with 35 plus years experience (30 as a LAME) on RPT and GA aircraft. And what would all those 777 operators of "old technology" know...... they just keep on making profits!!!
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VH-Cheerup
Check out an article in the latest Australian Aviation magazine re AirNZ.
To paraphrase: Air NZ profit up almost 150%, mainly due to innovation, at the heart of which was ideas from staff.
Now there are many kiwis who may beg to differ but I don't think Aussie staff are any less innovative than their kiwi cousins. So why not harness that power? I have been asking the question for years.
Oh when will they learn...
Check out an article in the latest Australian Aviation magazine re AirNZ.
To paraphrase: Air NZ profit up almost 150%, mainly due to innovation, at the heart of which was ideas from staff.
Now there are many kiwis who may beg to differ but I don't think Aussie staff are any less innovative than their kiwi cousins. So why not harness that power? I have been asking the question for years.
Oh when will they learn...
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The crew is in Dubai for one reason. Notably the JQ and Int'l heavies.
They are begging for financial backing for Jetstars asian franchises. They are playing the angle that they can deliver endless passengers from all the small cities into EK's networks in Vietnam, Hong Kong, China, Singapore etc. They are there to tell them that EK would be so much better off with JQ Asia on board.
The CEO has a burning desire to see JQ become the worlds biggest LCC, and to outperform his nemesis, the Ryanair boss. He will do anything in his power to achieve this. There is a personal element in this.
The desperate man however has other problems. QF international is likely to be shrunk, inefficient aircraft retired, and more handed over to the EK goliath. Don't think the Ek managers are not astute enough to realise they are the ones in the driving position in these negotiations.
EK don't have 777's to spare. They are desperately awaiting the next batch of 300ER's that they ordered several years ago but which don't start arriving in significant numbers until late next year. QF won't be competing internationally with their current fleet mix and have no hope or means of changing this.
Other problems include the capital draining mass orders of 320's sitting idle in Asia. This problem is getting worse as they are still being manufactured and there is no getting out of the contracts. There is no chance of QF int'l seeing any new types such as the 787. The 777 for QF is a dead horse as the production slots are pretty much sold now until 2025 and beyond.
In order to see his baby prosper, he needs help, and needs a big player to rescue him. The cost of achieving this will be at the expense of many. QF Int'l is not the safest place to be.
A recent article in which TC was interviewed quoted him as saying he has no interest at all in an equity stake in Qantas. EK don't buy into airlines, they limit themselves to partnerships and that is it. Personally I don't blame them as they know how to run an airline, and wonder why they would buy one that is so diseased.
When Ansett went down, everyone believed Singapore was the saviour. Now that QF is on the ropes, everyone is clinging to the faint hope that EK is the saviour.
Personally, I have just got my logbook stamped and my family comes first, hence I am looking to the exit door now as a matter of urgency. Can't wait to get my super out of there as well.
Ansett had full planes up until its demise. But the cost of operating those planes was way above the competition, just as QF is finding now. So to all those who are reporting that their flights have been full therefore we are all safe are deluded.
Anything up to $60K plus per sector for fuel only is the cost of inefficient aircraft types. Where they could have received better equipment has been squandered as they chose to take large amounts of cash compensation from the 787 delays to prop up the yearly profit, and to fund the JQ expansion.
The point of no return has been passed.
They are begging for financial backing for Jetstars asian franchises. They are playing the angle that they can deliver endless passengers from all the small cities into EK's networks in Vietnam, Hong Kong, China, Singapore etc. They are there to tell them that EK would be so much better off with JQ Asia on board.
The CEO has a burning desire to see JQ become the worlds biggest LCC, and to outperform his nemesis, the Ryanair boss. He will do anything in his power to achieve this. There is a personal element in this.
The desperate man however has other problems. QF international is likely to be shrunk, inefficient aircraft retired, and more handed over to the EK goliath. Don't think the Ek managers are not astute enough to realise they are the ones in the driving position in these negotiations.
EK don't have 777's to spare. They are desperately awaiting the next batch of 300ER's that they ordered several years ago but which don't start arriving in significant numbers until late next year. QF won't be competing internationally with their current fleet mix and have no hope or means of changing this.
Other problems include the capital draining mass orders of 320's sitting idle in Asia. This problem is getting worse as they are still being manufactured and there is no getting out of the contracts. There is no chance of QF int'l seeing any new types such as the 787. The 777 for QF is a dead horse as the production slots are pretty much sold now until 2025 and beyond.
In order to see his baby prosper, he needs help, and needs a big player to rescue him. The cost of achieving this will be at the expense of many. QF Int'l is not the safest place to be.
A recent article in which TC was interviewed quoted him as saying he has no interest at all in an equity stake in Qantas. EK don't buy into airlines, they limit themselves to partnerships and that is it. Personally I don't blame them as they know how to run an airline, and wonder why they would buy one that is so diseased.
When Ansett went down, everyone believed Singapore was the saviour. Now that QF is on the ropes, everyone is clinging to the faint hope that EK is the saviour.
Personally, I have just got my logbook stamped and my family comes first, hence I am looking to the exit door now as a matter of urgency. Can't wait to get my super out of there as well.
Ansett had full planes up until its demise. But the cost of operating those planes was way above the competition, just as QF is finding now. So to all those who are reporting that their flights have been full therefore we are all safe are deluded.
Anything up to $60K plus per sector for fuel only is the cost of inefficient aircraft types. Where they could have received better equipment has been squandered as they chose to take large amounts of cash compensation from the 787 delays to prop up the yearly profit, and to fund the JQ expansion.
The point of no return has been passed.
Join Date: Feb 2011
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So in a nutshell, Little Al and Jetstar have fed on the Qantas carcass until there is no more. Now it's off to find another host to feed on. Enter Emirates!
He and the board really do believe everyone else are stupid.
I hope EK sends them packing with nothing except sand rash.
He and the board really do believe everyone else are stupid.
I hope EK sends them packing with nothing except sand rash.
Crusty well said. Almost Every QF domestic flight with a 767 and A330 is losing money. Why ? Fares are not high enough to sustain the high leasing/operating costs of these planes. The truth is that the only a/c that make money on domestic routes anywhere in the world are the 737/757 and A319-A321. 767 fuel burn is too high and the A330 lease costs are nearly double the A319-A321
Last edited by 1a sound asleep; 10th Dec 2013 at 07:24.
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1a, you do realise that the A330s carry a hell of a lot more passengers than the 738s, which is part of the lease cost.
If what you said was the case then QF could just dump all the 767s it has today and replace with all the Jetstar A320s that are sitting spare.
If what you said was the case then QF could just dump all the 767s it has today and replace with all the Jetstar A320s that are sitting spare.
1a sound asleep
What are you smoking! B767s are fully owned....best money spinners in the group including the highest yielding route on the long-haul network, SYD-HNL-SYD (just ask the HNL manager), yep making lots of dollars! what would be the return if mainline had B787s. The game is up! Why would you sacrifice mainline for Jetstar?
What are you smoking! B767s are fully owned....best money spinners in the group including the highest yielding route on the long-haul network, SYD-HNL-SYD (just ask the HNL manager), yep making lots of dollars! what would be the return if mainline had B787s. The game is up! Why would you sacrifice mainline for Jetstar?
Crusty,
A great post, the future does not look good for many, it is criminal how the current management have stuffed this up.
I did the AN thing and it hurts !
Best wishes,
Oz2
A great post, the future does not look good for many, it is criminal how the current management have stuffed this up.
I did the AN thing and it hurts !
Best wishes,
Oz2