MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
787 options are due to be exercised in 2016 and only if International is profitable. I honestly can't see it happening. It's an unmitigated disaster. A total cluster f ck and the only way forward is to retract the business to the relative safety of Australia as a domestic carrier. The Australian Government would rather have carriers supported by foreign countries with questionable work practices and human rights breaches where women are treated as second class citizens to capacity dump on our country than ensure the viability of Qantas. The Liberal government under Howard's idiotic open skies policy created the coffin for Qantas. Joyce and his neo liberal chairman has ensured there will be a dead rotting ROO to put in it. If Joyce had articulated his vision years ago then the airline could easily have been transformed by capitalising on the staff's and public's passion for the flying kangaroo. Now we are all, as one manager said," Happily Disengaged".
Oh to be a Kiwi! Air New Zealand making record profits and a Government in surplus....Time to emigrate....Tax cuts as well!
An economic expansion that delivers the possibility of future tax cuts and some more new spending is forecast in the New Zealand budget.
Annual gross domestic product (GDP) will average 2.8 per cent during the next four years, peaking at four per cent in the year to March 2015.
But there is no relief for exporters as the NZ dollar stays high for the forecast period and home owners can expect interest rates to rise.
The growth delivers budget surpluses, starting with a bigger-than-expected $NZ372 million ($A346.32 million) next year and rising to $NZ3.5 billion in 2017/18.
"Spending restraint and a growing economy have led to a remarkable turnaround in the books," Finance Minister Bill English says.
The government will be able to consider "modest tax reductions in future years," he says
In stark contrast to Australia, the economy is running in the right direction and, Mr English says, it's because the National-led government has managed it well since being elected in 2008.
The economic expansion is bringing in more money and years of zero budgets, when new spending has been found from savings elsewhere, has helped core crown expenses to fall to 31 per cent of GDP in 2013/14 from 35 per cent in 2010/11.
Core crown spending is forecast to fall to 30 per cent of GDP by 2016/17.
Some choices have been made.
The signalled $NZ1b of new spending in this budget rises to $NZ1.5b in 2015 and grows thereafter to two per cent per budget.
Mr English says Treasury advises that's the upper limit of what's possible to "keep the pressure off interest rates".
Contributions to the New Zealand Super Fund, essentially savings by the government, were halted in Mr English's first budget. They will resume when net government debt falls to 20 per cent of GDP, projected to be in 2019/20.
There's room for some tax cuts already. ACC levies, to fund worker compensation, fall by $NZ480m in 2015/16, depending on the outcome of a public consultation.
The stronger economy had created 84,000 new jobs in the past year and wages would rise, Mr English said.
The budget projects the average wage to rise by $NZ7600 to $NZ62,300 during the next four years.
"A broad-based economic recovery is now established," Mr English said.
An economic expansion that delivers the possibility of future tax cuts and some more new spending is forecast in the New Zealand budget.
Annual gross domestic product (GDP) will average 2.8 per cent during the next four years, peaking at four per cent in the year to March 2015.
But there is no relief for exporters as the NZ dollar stays high for the forecast period and home owners can expect interest rates to rise.
The growth delivers budget surpluses, starting with a bigger-than-expected $NZ372 million ($A346.32 million) next year and rising to $NZ3.5 billion in 2017/18.
"Spending restraint and a growing economy have led to a remarkable turnaround in the books," Finance Minister Bill English says.
The government will be able to consider "modest tax reductions in future years," he says
In stark contrast to Australia, the economy is running in the right direction and, Mr English says, it's because the National-led government has managed it well since being elected in 2008.
The economic expansion is bringing in more money and years of zero budgets, when new spending has been found from savings elsewhere, has helped core crown expenses to fall to 31 per cent of GDP in 2013/14 from 35 per cent in 2010/11.
Core crown spending is forecast to fall to 30 per cent of GDP by 2016/17.
Some choices have been made.
The signalled $NZ1b of new spending in this budget rises to $NZ1.5b in 2015 and grows thereafter to two per cent per budget.
Mr English says Treasury advises that's the upper limit of what's possible to "keep the pressure off interest rates".
Contributions to the New Zealand Super Fund, essentially savings by the government, were halted in Mr English's first budget. They will resume when net government debt falls to 20 per cent of GDP, projected to be in 2019/20.
There's room for some tax cuts already. ACC levies, to fund worker compensation, fall by $NZ480m in 2015/16, depending on the outcome of a public consultation.
The stronger economy had created 84,000 new jobs in the past year and wages would rise, Mr English said.
The budget projects the average wage to rise by $NZ7600 to $NZ62,300 during the next four years.
"A broad-based economic recovery is now established," Mr English said.
Troo Believer ---- publics passion for qantas??????? Being carted via Sydney to Europe and America in the hands of lazy superannuated quasi public servants while being screwed blind by stratospheric airfares thanks to the lack of competition on international routes??????? And the golden gift that was the demise of Ansett?
Lets make one thing quite clear, Qantas has had a dream run with everything in its favor for decades. Its current problems are a direct result of:
1. Abysmal management.
2. Pathetic response to real competition.
3. Crazy Asian growth plans.
4. Allowing itself to become a NSW based political plaything of marginal use to the rest of Australia.
..And dont bullshyte about the "working conditions" of its competitors staff, you know perfectly well that Qantas management would apply those very same conditions to its Australian workforce if given half a chance.
Lets make one thing quite clear, Qantas has had a dream run with everything in its favor for decades. Its current problems are a direct result of:
1. Abysmal management.
2. Pathetic response to real competition.
3. Crazy Asian growth plans.
4. Allowing itself to become a NSW based political plaything of marginal use to the rest of Australia.
..And dont bullshyte about the "working conditions" of its competitors staff, you know perfectly well that Qantas management would apply those very same conditions to its Australian workforce if given half a chance.
Have you been sucking on lemons Sunfish?
I will take the conditions offered overseas now and it's becoming more attractive everyday. Nett pay is more and accommodation and school fees included! You might deride Qantas but it still has an enviable safety record. Why? Cause the people who fix the aircraft and fly it are directly attributable to this record which is still unmatched! 93 years of history and it was one of the few things Aussies did well up until now. This is a pilots forum and hundreds of younger pilots at Q are very concerned for the future so show some respect!
I will take the conditions offered overseas now and it's becoming more attractive everyday. Nett pay is more and accommodation and school fees included! You might deride Qantas but it still has an enviable safety record. Why? Cause the people who fix the aircraft and fly it are directly attributable to this record which is still unmatched! 93 years of history and it was one of the few things Aussies did well up until now. This is a pilots forum and hundreds of younger pilots at Q are very concerned for the future so show some respect!
I don't see Troo Believer and Sunfish arguing against each other. I'd argue they are both 'spot on' and putting forward a similar POV, just different viewpoints...
The QF disaster is going to be one of the most studied financial collapses in Australian history. And we are living it - on that level it's fascinating. Extraordinarily tragic, horrific and totally unnecessary, but fascinating none the less.
It sickens me to the core to say this, but as Lodown brilliantly put, it's lifeboat time - I think anyone with any sensible reading of this thread would have the same opinion.
PS: I would argue that the outstandingly abysmal management QF has suffered under has been encouraged by (at least the expectation these idiots have of) potential Govt backing. No matter how much they screwed up, they felt the govt would guarantee their golden handshake when they 'decided to pursue personal goals after giving so much to Qantas'. Tony Abbott was the first person to stare them down, and I think it shocked them.
The QF disaster is going to be one of the most studied financial collapses in Australian history. And we are living it - on that level it's fascinating. Extraordinarily tragic, horrific and totally unnecessary, but fascinating none the less.
It sickens me to the core to say this, but as Lodown brilliantly put, it's lifeboat time - I think anyone with any sensible reading of this thread would have the same opinion.
PS: I would argue that the outstandingly abysmal management QF has suffered under has been encouraged by (at least the expectation these idiots have of) potential Govt backing. No matter how much they screwed up, they felt the govt would guarantee their golden handshake when they 'decided to pursue personal goals after giving so much to Qantas'. Tony Abbott was the first person to stare them down, and I think it shocked them.
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Sunfsh,
Some very good points as usual, but it seems to me that right now there might be a latent attempt at positioning for a take over. Share volumes seem to have picked up unexpectedly and the share price now hovers around $1.27 now.
Some very good points as usual, but it seems to me that right now there might be a latent attempt at positioning for a take over. Share volumes seem to have picked up unexpectedly and the share price now hovers around $1.27 now.
I'm showing 1.25 / 1c / 0.8% up with market closed. I don't doubt the sense in SF's predictions, but don't see that in these figs... Graph shows terminal decline - so far.
For every idiot like everyone on the board, senior management or shark like Gekko, there's a Larry Wildman - it needs to be soon..
For every idiot like everyone on the board, senior management or shark like Gekko, there's a Larry Wildman - it needs to be soon..
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Don't forget that cash is still burning with the parked metal and it is absolutely amazing that no-one seems to be questioning that as an issue???
I say why the heck not?
I say why the heck not?
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Whilst this statement is entirely true, it's not the full story. The Qantas safety record is due predominantly, these days at least, on luck. And luck only lasts for so long..
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Alan couldn't care less about parked metal and QF's imminent demise. He is too busy drinking champas with Neil Perry and Liv up in Byron. All bases covered on the guest list there - Gillard & Shorten on the groom's side alongside Kroger & Albrechtsen for the bride. Happy days. 
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...517-38gzf.html
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...517-38gzf.html
To suggest that AJ might have caught the bouquet is offensive in the extreme.
When, in his Australian tenure, has he ever shown any aptitude for catching anything? To suggest that Joyce is capable of even that basic dexterity is to insult anyone who has performed at better than cripple level in any physical endeavour thus far devised.
I hear from Trinity College educators that AJ showed the same attributes that he displays intellectually: flailing, grasping, ultimately ineffectual. A failure, both conceptually and actually. Dewey-eyed prefect bait, then and now.
When, in his Australian tenure, has he ever shown any aptitude for catching anything? To suggest that Joyce is capable of even that basic dexterity is to insult anyone who has performed at better than cripple level in any physical endeavour thus far devised.
I hear from Trinity College educators that AJ showed the same attributes that he displays intellectually: flailing, grasping, ultimately ineffectual. A failure, both conceptually and actually. Dewey-eyed prefect bait, then and now.
Maybe he is the bouquet? Or am I just fantasising about being able to treat him like an act - a la Wolf of Wall St?
It is a truly appalling state of affairs. They want the Lodge, and the worst thing is (aside from those horrendous visuals) they could well manage it.
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BUSINESS BATTLE: Jetstar New Zealand boss Grant Kerr said the low-cost carrier has grown the domestic market since arriving five years ago, but needs to try harder to gain business passengers. - LAWRENCE SMITH/Fairfax NZ
Advertisement
Jetstar has failed to lure domestic business travellers away from rival Air New Zealand, but the budget airline says it remains committed to the market.
A search of online fares available over three weeks between Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch during the morning and evening peak business commuter hours found Jetstar consistently struggling to sell seats for more than $100 one way, while Air New Zealand could command as much as $340 one way.
Jetstar's New Zealand head Grant Kerr said despite the airline not commanding similar premiums to Air New Zealand, Jetstar was in the domestic market for the long haul.
Jetstar's domestic and trans-Tasman operations would also be shielded from Qantas' A$2 billion cost-cutting drive, including the loss of 5000 jobs over the next three years, Kerr said.
"The bosses in Aussie are very comfortable. They've seen our improvement over the past five years and are happy where we are financially." Jetstar New Zealand's financial figures were hidden among the annual returns of parent Qantas. Kerr would not say if the airline had broken even after five years competing in the domestic market. Kerr said the difference between what Jetstar and Air New Zealand could charge on the similarly scheduled flights came down to perception and branding, something he admits the airline could improve on.
"They [business commuters] are still reluctant to fly with us and we need them to have confidence with our on-time performance," Kerr said.
Peter Harbison at Sydney-based aviation industry think-tank CAPA said Jetstar contributes only 15.4 per cent of total domestic capacity compared to Air New Zealand's 84.4 per cent across a much broader network of 26 destinations.
But Kerr said its share of capacity on the routes it flies between Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin and Queenstown has grown to 24 per cent. Business passengers accounted for just one in five passenger on those services.
In a bid to make itself more appealing to the lucrative business market Jetstar added the Qantas Frequent Flyer programme, retimed its schedule to offer more flights during the 6am to 9am and 4pm to 7pm peak times and improved its on-time performance from 85 per cent, to 90 per cent between March 2013 and March 2014.
The airline advertised its improved record in a billboard campaign, but Fortis Travel managing director Blair Huston said it would not win business travellers from Air New Zealand.
"You can put as many billboards up as you like, but when you have a five-year history of leaving people stranded … it's very difficult for customers to change their behaviour," Huston said.
On-time performance issues were top of Huston's five reasons why his business clients still snub the low-cost carrier, even when both airlines offer only economy class domestically.
Other turn-offs were Jetstar's limited domestic network, Qantas' lack of direct long-haul services from New Zealand, the appeal of Air New Zealand's Airpoints loyalty programme and Koru lounges and the Jetstar booking software being incompatible with some agency software. Jetstar and Qantas also did not pay commissions to travel agents.
Huston said Jetstar could not escape its legacy as a no-frills airline.
"Business travellers may harp on to us about wanting to cut costs, but when we offer them another carrier, Jetstar, for 50 or 60 per cent cheaper, the vast majority of them still won't take it." Often business travellers would rather travel off peak on Air New Zealand than choose Jetstar.
APX chief executive Andrew Dale said Jetstar has failed to capitalise on the growing trend in businesses adopting a "best fare of the day" policy for corporate travel, which make up two-thirds of his company's bookings.
Best fare of the day policies are an alternative to a company choosing one airline for all travel and reaping loyalty benefits.
"Jetstar, by its very nature would be cheaper most of the time [with a best fare of the day policy], but still it is not getting its fair share of the business travel market," Dale said.
Managers and executives could easily find wriggle room in their company's travel policies to suit their airline preference, Dale said, such as insisting on appointment times to complement flights with their preferred airline.
Dale said despite Jetstar's improved on-time performance, the difference in size of fleet and domestic networks between it and Air New Zealand meant it will remain largely on the back-foot in the business market.
Sunday Star Times
Interesting read.
In 2008 Qantas made 1 billion profit. Jetstar had around 20 aircraft, Qantas flew all over the globe. Since then Jetstar have expanded to over 100 aircraft, therein lies the problem. Yes there has been a huge influx of foreign carriers, but you don't fix it with a unknown pipe dream, you spend the money on your current product to make it impossible for competitors to thrive. That's exactly what Air New Zealand have done here.
Qantas needs a change of direction at the top. Unfortunately, the management at Qantas strongly believe you can operate a low cost carrier in unison to your full cost carrier. It has been a total failure, no full cost/low cost airline has ever worked before, and is certainly never going to work here. You simply cannot expect your premium passenger to board a low cost carrier which has replaced your premium service. It's time to fall on his sword and except it was a gamble that just didn't pay off, lesson learnt, move on and rebuild with a new strategy before it's too late.
Advertisement
Jetstar has failed to lure domestic business travellers away from rival Air New Zealand, but the budget airline says it remains committed to the market.
A search of online fares available over three weeks between Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch during the morning and evening peak business commuter hours found Jetstar consistently struggling to sell seats for more than $100 one way, while Air New Zealand could command as much as $340 one way.
Jetstar's New Zealand head Grant Kerr said despite the airline not commanding similar premiums to Air New Zealand, Jetstar was in the domestic market for the long haul.
Jetstar's domestic and trans-Tasman operations would also be shielded from Qantas' A$2 billion cost-cutting drive, including the loss of 5000 jobs over the next three years, Kerr said.
"The bosses in Aussie are very comfortable. They've seen our improvement over the past five years and are happy where we are financially." Jetstar New Zealand's financial figures were hidden among the annual returns of parent Qantas. Kerr would not say if the airline had broken even after five years competing in the domestic market. Kerr said the difference between what Jetstar and Air New Zealand could charge on the similarly scheduled flights came down to perception and branding, something he admits the airline could improve on.
"They [business commuters] are still reluctant to fly with us and we need them to have confidence with our on-time performance," Kerr said.
Peter Harbison at Sydney-based aviation industry think-tank CAPA said Jetstar contributes only 15.4 per cent of total domestic capacity compared to Air New Zealand's 84.4 per cent across a much broader network of 26 destinations.
But Kerr said its share of capacity on the routes it flies between Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin and Queenstown has grown to 24 per cent. Business passengers accounted for just one in five passenger on those services.
In a bid to make itself more appealing to the lucrative business market Jetstar added the Qantas Frequent Flyer programme, retimed its schedule to offer more flights during the 6am to 9am and 4pm to 7pm peak times and improved its on-time performance from 85 per cent, to 90 per cent between March 2013 and March 2014.
The airline advertised its improved record in a billboard campaign, but Fortis Travel managing director Blair Huston said it would not win business travellers from Air New Zealand.
"You can put as many billboards up as you like, but when you have a five-year history of leaving people stranded … it's very difficult for customers to change their behaviour," Huston said.
On-time performance issues were top of Huston's five reasons why his business clients still snub the low-cost carrier, even when both airlines offer only economy class domestically.
Other turn-offs were Jetstar's limited domestic network, Qantas' lack of direct long-haul services from New Zealand, the appeal of Air New Zealand's Airpoints loyalty programme and Koru lounges and the Jetstar booking software being incompatible with some agency software. Jetstar and Qantas also did not pay commissions to travel agents.
Huston said Jetstar could not escape its legacy as a no-frills airline.
"Business travellers may harp on to us about wanting to cut costs, but when we offer them another carrier, Jetstar, for 50 or 60 per cent cheaper, the vast majority of them still won't take it." Often business travellers would rather travel off peak on Air New Zealand than choose Jetstar.
APX chief executive Andrew Dale said Jetstar has failed to capitalise on the growing trend in businesses adopting a "best fare of the day" policy for corporate travel, which make up two-thirds of his company's bookings.
Best fare of the day policies are an alternative to a company choosing one airline for all travel and reaping loyalty benefits.
"Jetstar, by its very nature would be cheaper most of the time [with a best fare of the day policy], but still it is not getting its fair share of the business travel market," Dale said.
Managers and executives could easily find wriggle room in their company's travel policies to suit their airline preference, Dale said, such as insisting on appointment times to complement flights with their preferred airline.
Dale said despite Jetstar's improved on-time performance, the difference in size of fleet and domestic networks between it and Air New Zealand meant it will remain largely on the back-foot in the business market.
Sunday Star Times
Interesting read.
In 2008 Qantas made 1 billion profit. Jetstar had around 20 aircraft, Qantas flew all over the globe. Since then Jetstar have expanded to over 100 aircraft, therein lies the problem. Yes there has been a huge influx of foreign carriers, but you don't fix it with a unknown pipe dream, you spend the money on your current product to make it impossible for competitors to thrive. That's exactly what Air New Zealand have done here.
Qantas needs a change of direction at the top. Unfortunately, the management at Qantas strongly believe you can operate a low cost carrier in unison to your full cost carrier. It has been a total failure, no full cost/low cost airline has ever worked before, and is certainly never going to work here. You simply cannot expect your premium passenger to board a low cost carrier which has replaced your premium service. It's time to fall on his sword and except it was a gamble that just didn't pay off, lesson learnt, move on and rebuild with a new strategy before it's too late.
Let's be honest: Serious people, people who make serious decisions and direct serious expenditures, hate Jetstar. Jetstar can fix all of their problems and win over market share, but to do so means they would have to become.....Qantas.
Joyce will forgive almost anything of JQ, but not that.
Joyce will forgive almost anything of JQ, but not that.
JQ NZ is obviously loss making. God knows that if it was profitable, AJ would sing it from the roofs.
QF know there is only one way to attract the business passenger and to do that they would need to replicate what JB did at VA, which is rebrand it, take it upmarket whilst trying to preserve the underlying lower cost base. This would mean giving up the Jetstar name and adopting something else (I don't know but Qantas sounds nice but to attract New Zealanders, it may have to be a little less obviously Australian.)
I think AJ would love JQ to become Qantas on the basis I described above but he has shown himself to be completely incapable of managing the politics of driving down the cost base without terminally disengaging his entire workforce.
QF know there is only one way to attract the business passenger and to do that they would need to replicate what JB did at VA, which is rebrand it, take it upmarket whilst trying to preserve the underlying lower cost base. This would mean giving up the Jetstar name and adopting something else (I don't know but Qantas sounds nice but to attract New Zealanders, it may have to be a little less obviously Australian.)
Let's be honest: Serious people, people who make serious decisions and direct serious expenditures, hate Jetstar. Jetstar can fix all of their problems and win over market share, but to do so means they would have to become.....Qantas.