MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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An utterly appalling situation.It beggars belief that a company once at the forefront of aviation safety could have so little understanding of Human Factors at board level as to announce publicly, 5000 and potentially more Job losses and to be unable to identify who will go!
What a strategy,put all your staff on edge in a business that relies so heavily on an engaged workforce to operate safely.
Unbelievable
What a strategy,put all your staff on edge in a business that relies so heavily on an engaged workforce to operate safely.
Unbelievable
Steve, don't be put off by the comments of one person. We all appreciate your work. It must be gut wrenching to sit and listen to that fool lie to a senate inquiry!
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I'm sure Aeromedic didn't mean anything in what he said. I just thought a few readers here will listen to the recording and maybe jot down what was said. I would do it myself but need to prepare for Tuesday hearing and Qantas redundancy meetings.
short flights long nights
I just cannot believe that the good senators take those answers at face value!
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Steve.
Further to V Jets Quote.
At a second point AJ discussed the staff support
Question:
Mr Joyce, do you believe you have the confidence of the staff?
Answer:
I absolutely believe Qantas staff are behind the need for the company to change and know that the best way to secure as many jobs in the Qantas Group is to have a successful and profitable business going forward...
.....they are behind the management and what we need to do and what we need to change.
Further to V Jets Quote.
At a second point AJ discussed the staff support
Question:
Mr Joyce, do you believe you have the confidence of the staff?
Answer:
I absolutely believe Qantas staff are behind the need for the company to change and know that the best way to secure as many jobs in the Qantas Group is to have a successful and profitable business going forward...
.....they are behind the management and what we need to do and what we need to change.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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V-jet
He's done it again,
I posted the comment that he knew that it was not so and that the moderators job was to moderate not participate.
It's gone as I guess so will this one.
I have not given up.
Your "I learnt nothing about business..." until I had skin in the game, says it all.
ALEA Fed Sec
I will make a point of clearing the decks for the next circus performance. I too will help where I can to ensure the Senators are well armed.
I was in some meetings and missed the your part of the Estimates meeting. I did though get a bit of Joists drivel and I did what you did tuned out and got on with something useful I will however do some research and Hansard should be available shortly.
You can be certain senate estimates are a must watch for a very large number of people and as I am sure you know it is where the rubber meets the road.
You don't get paid nearly enough for what you do, I am not a LAME, but you will still be around when he is not. And I know the money is not what it is about.
Love your partner family and babies a lot. At the least you have that. It's pretty lonely and futile without them.
He's done it again,
I posted the comment that he knew that it was not so and that the moderators job was to moderate not participate.
It's gone as I guess so will this one.
I have not given up.
Your "I learnt nothing about business..." until I had skin in the game, says it all.
ALEA Fed Sec
I will make a point of clearing the decks for the next circus performance. I too will help where I can to ensure the Senators are well armed.
I was in some meetings and missed the your part of the Estimates meeting. I did though get a bit of Joists drivel and I did what you did tuned out and got on with something useful I will however do some research and Hansard should be available shortly.
You can be certain senate estimates are a must watch for a very large number of people and as I am sure you know it is where the rubber meets the road.
You don't get paid nearly enough for what you do, I am not a LAME, but you will still be around when he is not. And I know the money is not what it is about.
Love your partner family and babies a lot. At the least you have that. It's pretty lonely and futile without them.
MC, Steve and anyone else.
'Absolutely believing' is a very different thing to lying.
I'm not sure that is the smoking gun that's needed to nail the f&&ker.
I wish it were different.... But it's exactly how I would lie in his position. Allude to everything, but confirm nothing.
One great positive about today's TV. There was no fawning or grovelling by the incompetent clownette Wirthless.
We need to come up with something irrefutable he has screwed up on. The onus of proof is on us, he is innocent as driven snow can sail away into the heavily compensated sunset unless we prove beyond reasonable doubt anything else.
Maybe's, if' sand buts won't cut it. It needs something solid. And probably, if you have it, best not publicly broadcast it.
'Absolutely believing' is a very different thing to lying.
I'm not sure that is the smoking gun that's needed to nail the f&&ker.
I wish it were different.... But it's exactly how I would lie in his position. Allude to everything, but confirm nothing.
One great positive about today's TV. There was no fawning or grovelling by the incompetent clownette Wirthless.
We need to come up with something irrefutable he has screwed up on. The onus of proof is on us, he is innocent as driven snow can sail away into the heavily compensated sunset unless we prove beyond reasonable doubt anything else.
Maybe's, if' sand buts won't cut it. It needs something solid. And probably, if you have it, best not publicly broadcast it.
Clearly not pushing hard enough...
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Did you sign his "fairgo4qantas" petition? Then you are one of the staff he refers to that are "100% behind everything management do".
See why it was very silly to sign that petition?
See why it was very silly to sign that petition?
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I found the discussion on J* Asia interesting.
Senator X asked was JQ Asia insolvent, or was JQ Asia loosing money.
Gareth Evans responded. The JQ Asia GROUP consisted of Newstar, Orangestar, Jetstar Asia and Valuair.
GE stressed that within the JQ Asia GROUP they provided an "interactive" finance. He further explained the TRUE VIABILITY was in the JQ asia GROUP and not the individual business of one entity (Jetstar Asia).
Reinforcing Newstar were profitable.
Compare this to the previous argument provided by Joyce.
Stating that its NOT about the QF GROUP performance, but the performance of individual business units.
Shouldn't they provide the same logic to the Qantas Group as the do the J* Asia group?
If you look at past history of the combined frequent flyer, QF Domestic & QF International in TOTALITY the group was profitable.
GE also stated that after the removal of the Perth -Singapore route. All international routes were generating revenue to cover the cash costs of the business of operating the routes.
Further he & Joyce explained that although the international routes were covering the cash costs, that it was not sufficient to cover the recapitalization of Qantas international.
So my question is?
Joyce previously stated he wouldn't reinvest in Qantas International until it returned to profitability.
Has it reached the point where it is now profitable? They have stated it is covering the cost of operating the routes, which is different to covering the costs of reinvesting in a new fleet.
MC.
Senator X asked was JQ Asia insolvent, or was JQ Asia loosing money.
Gareth Evans responded. The JQ Asia GROUP consisted of Newstar, Orangestar, Jetstar Asia and Valuair.
GE stressed that within the JQ Asia GROUP they provided an "interactive" finance. He further explained the TRUE VIABILITY was in the JQ asia GROUP and not the individual business of one entity (Jetstar Asia).
Reinforcing Newstar were profitable.
Compare this to the previous argument provided by Joyce.
Stating that its NOT about the QF GROUP performance, but the performance of individual business units.
Shouldn't they provide the same logic to the Qantas Group as the do the J* Asia group?
If you look at past history of the combined frequent flyer, QF Domestic & QF International in TOTALITY the group was profitable.
GE also stated that after the removal of the Perth -Singapore route. All international routes were generating revenue to cover the cash costs of the business of operating the routes.
Further he & Joyce explained that although the international routes were covering the cash costs, that it was not sufficient to cover the recapitalization of Qantas international.
So my question is?
Joyce previously stated he wouldn't reinvest in Qantas International until it returned to profitability.
Has it reached the point where it is now profitable? They have stated it is covering the cost of operating the routes, which is different to covering the costs of reinvesting in a new fleet.
MC.
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abruptly cut short
This is how many people saw the inquiry yesterday.. ..
Just when it was becoming very interesting..... you guessed it, News 23 1/2 cut to another story... having said that, I think we see enough in the body language from the Qantas foursome to see that Nick X was really hitting some home runs with his questions.. and also a couple of good ones from some others.
All is not lost.. I think next Tuesday will be a much better event.. today was a little shabby, as I said before, it looked like everyone wanted to go home... "thank god its Friday" kinda thing...
I want to thank Steve P for all his efforts.. out of all the union leader activities of late, Steve always comes across as genuinely concerned for his members, which is pretty rare these days, he's a good bloke, always there for you if you need him... Unlike some others I can think of, who, to me, always appear to be in it for themselves only.
Joyce and Co did their best to use up question time as much as they could but didn't always get away with it.. That's why I think Tuesday will be a harder slog..
There is still a healthy pulse...
Just when it was becoming very interesting..... you guessed it, News 23 1/2 cut to another story... having said that, I think we see enough in the body language from the Qantas foursome to see that Nick X was really hitting some home runs with his questions.. and also a couple of good ones from some others.
All is not lost.. I think next Tuesday will be a much better event.. today was a little shabby, as I said before, it looked like everyone wanted to go home... "thank god its Friday" kinda thing...
I want to thank Steve P for all his efforts.. out of all the union leader activities of late, Steve always comes across as genuinely concerned for his members, which is pretty rare these days, he's a good bloke, always there for you if you need him... Unlike some others I can think of, who, to me, always appear to be in it for themselves only.
Joyce and Co did their best to use up question time as much as they could but didn't always get away with it.. That's why I think Tuesday will be a harder slog..
There is still a healthy pulse...
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Thnx Mstr Caution.
An "I believe" answer should always be followed up with "Why do you believe that?" question.
"they are behind management" really needs to be substantiated.
Yes he will throw back the fair go petition as his response. It is like an open cheque book.
An "I believe" answer should always be followed up with "Why do you believe that?" question.
"they are behind management" really needs to be substantiated.
Yes he will throw back the fair go petition as his response. It is like an open cheque book.
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The company petition was not a staff only invitation. Therefore it cannot be classed as 'staff are supportive' rubbish.
No qantas employee I know is supportive of this mad-man and his path of destruction
No qantas employee I know is supportive of this mad-man and his path of destruction
What concerns me is that he may genuinely believe the staff are behind him. If so, what are the yes men he has surrounded himself with telling him? Is anyone in second tier management willing to stand up and say that the emperor truly has no clothes?
He does seriously believe the staff are behind him - and he has the engagement surveys to prove it.
And he HAS surrounded himself with 'yes-men/women'. And you know they are 'yes' because they haven't resigned en masse which is by rights what they should have done by now. Because they haven't they have proved themselves equally as incompetent as their clueless leader and board.
NONE OF THEM HAVE THE FAINTEST IDEA ABOUT AIRLINE OPERATIONS OUTSIDE THE 'EASY' BITS LIKE LOUNGES AND FANCY SEATS.
They simply do not understand the decades of work that got the place to the stage where it COULD have fancy lounges. The fancy lounges are the LAST thing an airline can worry about. To do otherwise is simply ego stroking incompetence.
And he HAS surrounded himself with 'yes-men/women'. And you know they are 'yes' because they haven't resigned en masse which is by rights what they should have done by now. Because they haven't they have proved themselves equally as incompetent as their clueless leader and board.
NONE OF THEM HAVE THE FAINTEST IDEA ABOUT AIRLINE OPERATIONS OUTSIDE THE 'EASY' BITS LIKE LOUNGES AND FANCY SEATS.
They simply do not understand the decades of work that got the place to the stage where it COULD have fancy lounges. The fancy lounges are the LAST thing an airline can worry about. To do otherwise is simply ego stroking incompetence.
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Anyone who questions the master strategy internally is shunted out the door. Have seen a few good Engineering managers tapped this week with promotions going to the idiots. Many of us don't like what we are seeing now, it is only going to get worse.
Is there actually a strategy? Aside from general lunacy?