MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
short flights long nights
So, unsecured loan? No.
Debt guarantee ? No
Respect in the media? No
Senate enquiry? Yes.
Carbon Tax? Not really sure on that, to be sure, to be sure.
Management advise? Ask MOL, every premium airline passengers friend.
All in all seems to be going rather well, AJ.
Debt guarantee ? No
Respect in the media? No
Senate enquiry? Yes.
Carbon Tax? Not really sure on that, to be sure, to be sure.
Management advise? Ask MOL, every premium airline passengers friend.
All in all seems to be going rather well, AJ.
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Interestingly, the same shareholders also are the largest shareholders in Australia's four major banks.
I suspect they are nominees for Australian superannuation investments. If so, their Members have lost out on both capital gains and annual dividends.
I suspect they are nominees for Australian superannuation investments. If so, their Members have lost out on both capital gains and annual dividends.
The little bloke is working overtime today, nothing seems to be bothering him... interesting clip here
.
This man sounds like the Xenophon of Airline Management.
I am sure most QF workers (me included) would walk over broken glass for a CEO like this.
No ones perfect and I am sure he's just a very naughty boy (Brian) but gee what a message for the troops, just like Steve Jobs working for $1pa.
And I'm pretty sure that was a tripler taking off as a postscript. Who'da thunk it?
I am sure most QF workers (me included) would walk over broken glass for a CEO like this.
No ones perfect and I am sure he's just a very naughty boy (Brian) but gee what a message for the troops, just like Steve Jobs working for $1pa.
And I'm pretty sure that was a tripler taking off as a postscript. Who'da thunk it?
Last edited by V-Jet; 5th Mar 2014 at 07:07.
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Oh, and on another note Al, any thought of the employee's foregoing our 3% pay rises that you forced upon us in your clever move to shut down the airline and take our negotiations to arbitration you are KIDDING YOURSELF!!!!!! 
short flights long nights
Who had a meltdown?
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Well what a day, a lot of ducking & diving from all sides in Canberra, AJ suddenly remembers the Carbon Tax did hit the bottom line afterall.. not
a murmur from the big insitutional investors.. so I guess Al must be happy.
I think Ben's take is very interesting
Even the ABC has set up fact file like it's an election, the show goes on, what will tomorrow bring?
Fact file: Is Qantas on an 'unlevel playing field'? - Fact Check - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
.
a murmur from the big insitutional investors.. so I guess Al must be happy.
I think Ben's take is very interesting
Everything that happened in the so called Qantas crisis today would support a suspicion that the airline’s management attempted to touch the public purse for $3 billion to distract attention from a sorry record of inept leadership.
Exhibit A is the revelation that Qantas asked for that amount of money as an unsecured loan, something that so affronted Treasurer Joe Hockey and it is understood, the Prime Minister Tony Abbott and deputy PM Warren Truss, that its group CEO will struggle to ever again command their former levels of respect.
However Exhibit B is the supporting evidence by cabinet sources, including Hockey, that when it began to look into Alan Joyce’s claims of impending ruin brought about by a level playing field, an accounting firm found that Qantas was in no risk of collapse now or in the foreseeable future and had the assets, resources and cash to trade it way out of its current loss making situation.
Labor was suckered by Joyce’s ploys, no doubt energised by the inevitable loss of some jobs at Qantas no matter what, but the Coalition didn’t.
The credibility of the Joyce management, what is left of it after some sackings today, is in tatters in government circles.
It is instructive to watch the expression on Treasurer Hockey’s face as he controls his response to be asked for a $3 billion unsecured loan in today’s live interviews.
“If you give an unsecured loan you don’t expect to see it again,” he said. Hockey compared it to a credit card with a $3 billion limit, paid for by taxpayers.
Abbott was equally composed at Question Time, when he praised Qantas as being a great business that the government wanted to help by setting it free so that it could compete equally with the other great Australian national carrier, Virgin Australia, as he earlier described it on several occasions.
The control of Abbott’s delivery was exquisite. The knife was being put into Qantas, and turned.
It would not be everyday that someone had the front to try and bounce the public purse for $3 billion to deflect attention from woefully poor strategy and governance at Qantas. But it worked a treat on the wrong side of the house, where the Labor position seems incredibly conflicted and inconsistent and shrill when it comes to Anthony Albanese babbling on about flying pandas and flying kangaroos and saying how vital Qantas was to the national interest days after it ditched its Qantas Defence Services to America’s Northrop Grumman.
The tragedy that is unfolding today is that while Qantas complains about the massive increase in capacity by international carriers (include through its gifting of Spirit of Australian believers to Emirates services) the market is thriving on demand that Qantas refused to serve.
It stood still on the freeway and has made itself road kill while everyone else went about their business of taking lollies off a fool.
The loss of jobs at Qantas, is, with some notable exceptions tonight, a tragedy. But some adjustment of jobs was inevitable even though in critical aspects in flying standards and engineering excellence, we can confidently expect management to get it wrong.
It is difficult to think of a single strategy that the Joyce Clifford management and its incapable board of directors have actually managed to get right.
Joyce has a long and inglorious record for pulling silly, and indeed costly stunts, with projects that never worked, and disastrous forays into Asia, but they may well have ended with his attempt to stampede billions of dollars worth of favouritism out of a hard nosed government.
Restoring the health of Qantas to a level where it can again raise money at favourable rates will take quite some time. But it won’t be given a short cut using public money.
Qantas attempting grand larceny under cover of a 'crisis'? | Plane Talking
Exhibit A is the revelation that Qantas asked for that amount of money as an unsecured loan, something that so affronted Treasurer Joe Hockey and it is understood, the Prime Minister Tony Abbott and deputy PM Warren Truss, that its group CEO will struggle to ever again command their former levels of respect.
However Exhibit B is the supporting evidence by cabinet sources, including Hockey, that when it began to look into Alan Joyce’s claims of impending ruin brought about by a level playing field, an accounting firm found that Qantas was in no risk of collapse now or in the foreseeable future and had the assets, resources and cash to trade it way out of its current loss making situation.
Labor was suckered by Joyce’s ploys, no doubt energised by the inevitable loss of some jobs at Qantas no matter what, but the Coalition didn’t.
The credibility of the Joyce management, what is left of it after some sackings today, is in tatters in government circles.
It is instructive to watch the expression on Treasurer Hockey’s face as he controls his response to be asked for a $3 billion unsecured loan in today’s live interviews.
“If you give an unsecured loan you don’t expect to see it again,” he said. Hockey compared it to a credit card with a $3 billion limit, paid for by taxpayers.
Abbott was equally composed at Question Time, when he praised Qantas as being a great business that the government wanted to help by setting it free so that it could compete equally with the other great Australian national carrier, Virgin Australia, as he earlier described it on several occasions.
The control of Abbott’s delivery was exquisite. The knife was being put into Qantas, and turned.
It would not be everyday that someone had the front to try and bounce the public purse for $3 billion to deflect attention from woefully poor strategy and governance at Qantas. But it worked a treat on the wrong side of the house, where the Labor position seems incredibly conflicted and inconsistent and shrill when it comes to Anthony Albanese babbling on about flying pandas and flying kangaroos and saying how vital Qantas was to the national interest days after it ditched its Qantas Defence Services to America’s Northrop Grumman.
The tragedy that is unfolding today is that while Qantas complains about the massive increase in capacity by international carriers (include through its gifting of Spirit of Australian believers to Emirates services) the market is thriving on demand that Qantas refused to serve.
It stood still on the freeway and has made itself road kill while everyone else went about their business of taking lollies off a fool.
The loss of jobs at Qantas, is, with some notable exceptions tonight, a tragedy. But some adjustment of jobs was inevitable even though in critical aspects in flying standards and engineering excellence, we can confidently expect management to get it wrong.
It is difficult to think of a single strategy that the Joyce Clifford management and its incapable board of directors have actually managed to get right.
Joyce has a long and inglorious record for pulling silly, and indeed costly stunts, with projects that never worked, and disastrous forays into Asia, but they may well have ended with his attempt to stampede billions of dollars worth of favouritism out of a hard nosed government.
Restoring the health of Qantas to a level where it can again raise money at favourable rates will take quite some time. But it won’t be given a short cut using public money.
Qantas attempting grand larceny under cover of a 'crisis'? | Plane Talking
Fact file: Is Qantas on an 'unlevel playing field'? - Fact Check - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
.
It's weird,
The little bloke is working overtime today, nothing seems to be bothering him... interesting clip here
The little bloke is working overtime today, nothing seems to be bothering him... interesting clip here
Has he a point about economies of scale of heavy maintenance, if so what is the solution?
Acquire another airline to make the economies of scale work?
Clearly oz wages are not competitive so servicing aircraft from other airlines doesn't stack up?
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Accute Instinct.... it is obvious that your political affiliation lies with the left however, to have your views considered on this forum, you really should look at the events unfolding with both eyes open.
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If you think things look bad now, wait until the sackings kick in and all those former HO staff start leaking like a sieve about everything they were sitting on while there was some hope.
The journo's around town are going to get very busy and maybe some of it will hit the parliament. Another reason why a parliamentary enquiry will be disastrous for AJ and his team.
The journo's around town are going to get very busy and maybe some of it will hit the parliament. Another reason why a parliamentary enquiry will be disastrous for AJ and his team.
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Considering the government is now apparently considering an inquiry into QF - and the media has seemingly woken up to AJ crying foul... would now be a good time to bring up the 20 or so Qs that SP devised a few years ago about JQ cross subsidisation?
Send it to a few journos - it might even get noticed!
Send it to a few journos - it might even get noticed!
Steve, if that's the case, why are they winding it back? If it were a cash cow it'd be expanded or at least maintained.
The reason the company has expanded Jetstar international is because it loses less than Qantas from what I understand.
The reason the company has expanded Jetstar international is because it loses less than Qantas from what I understand.
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It stood still on the freeway and has made itself road kill while everyone else went about their business of taking lollies off a fool.
Now that was bloody funny and yet so painfully true!
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Interesting 24 hours.
I thought Abbott's choice of words during parliament were very telling. Abbotts reference to Qantas having been a largely profitable business over the last 10 years and will continue to be so if properly managed (Tima9X, can you find this reference?) came across as a direct criticism to the current managements performance.
Then we have had the blatant about turn by Joyce in regard to the Carbon tax, He looked like a beaten dog with his tail between his legs.
Then we have the now announced Senate enquiry
So, as punishment to Joyce for embarrassing the Lib Government in regards initially that the Carbon tax not being an issue, it appears that the Government are going to drag the QSA amendment through the senate, knowing full well it's not going to pass in it's current state. Tell Joyce in the mean time there is no plan B, exposing again this management's inability to manage, thus giving the senate enquiry enough time to expose Joyce's management performance and limp foreign screw ups and effectively ending Joyce's tenure (if he even lasts this long).
This is what you get when you have such a big ego and you have misjudged your audience, embarrassed people that have long memories and positions of power and treated everyone else like they are morons.
This is my guess where this is heading.
It will be the end of Joyce, the QSA amendment will be passed by the senate with the amendment being the 25/35% restrictions being removed but the 51% Australian owned remaining. Then finally, a debt guarantee under a new CEO and management until the 49% investment is taken up by a suitable foreign investor.
Today it all changed. God knows what tomorrow will bring!
I thought Abbott's choice of words during parliament were very telling. Abbotts reference to Qantas having been a largely profitable business over the last 10 years and will continue to be so if properly managed (Tima9X, can you find this reference?) came across as a direct criticism to the current managements performance.
Then we have had the blatant about turn by Joyce in regard to the Carbon tax, He looked like a beaten dog with his tail between his legs.
Then we have the now announced Senate enquiry
So, as punishment to Joyce for embarrassing the Lib Government in regards initially that the Carbon tax not being an issue, it appears that the Government are going to drag the QSA amendment through the senate, knowing full well it's not going to pass in it's current state. Tell Joyce in the mean time there is no plan B, exposing again this management's inability to manage, thus giving the senate enquiry enough time to expose Joyce's management performance and limp foreign screw ups and effectively ending Joyce's tenure (if he even lasts this long).
This is what you get when you have such a big ego and you have misjudged your audience, embarrassed people that have long memories and positions of power and treated everyone else like they are morons.
This is my guess where this is heading.
It will be the end of Joyce, the QSA amendment will be passed by the senate with the amendment being the 25/35% restrictions being removed but the 51% Australian owned remaining. Then finally, a debt guarantee under a new CEO and management until the 49% investment is taken up by a suitable foreign investor.
Today it all changed. God knows what tomorrow will bring!
short flights long nights
Joyce was arrogant enough to believe h could walk into Tony Abbott's office and demand 3 billion by yesterday, and get it.
He sure read that wrong!. He has nowhere left to turn. He can't last much longer.
He sure read that wrong!. He has nowhere left to turn. He can't last much longer.