MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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Well if AJ was to go, the real question is who gets to choose...oh ok LC...guess everything will be ok then.
Any solution will require major change at both levels or the status quo will stand.
Any solution will require major change at both levels or the status quo will stand.
I would LOVE to get 'Spirit of Victorville' written across QCA/Mascot Campus.
Make it a protest catch cry??
It's perfect and sums up everything that is wrong...
Make it a protest catch cry??
It's perfect and sums up everything that is wrong...
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Just throwing some ideas around.
New CEO - Peter Gregg?
New Chairman - Skull or Dick Smith? Martin Ferguson (no this one is a joke)
I know a lot of people here don't like these blokes but I find them ok. Are there other options? Pls let me know in case I am asked.
New CEO - Peter Gregg?
New Chairman - Skull or Dick Smith? Martin Ferguson (no this one is a joke)
I know a lot of people here don't like these blokes but I find them ok. Are there other options? Pls let me know in case I am asked.
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Here's a link from RMIT University pointing out Alan Joyce should go.
https://theconversation.com/the-5000...an-joyce-23761
https://theconversation.com/the-5000...an-joyce-23761
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More for Gaunty
Firstly, thank you for your personal and professional background. It sheds some light on your perspective in your original comments which didn’t have a lot of detail. Congratulations on your life choices, your family success, that you are self made and on your uncommon longevity in this fickle industry.
I have a few points in response to your original post.
The way I read it you were proposing putting Qantas into Voluntary Administration as a business strategy because excessive labour costs are its primary problem/failure.
What Qf needs does not need, in my humble opinion, is short sighted administrators with limited airline management experience and whose primary goal is most often no more than to keep the business afloat long enough to salvage what they can for the creditors and of course their own hefty fees. Their roles too often morph into that of liquidators.
This would be simply no improvement on the standard of management that the company (here I mean the people in the company and the shareholders as these two groups are really the company) has already agonized under for well over a decade and with no better outcomes. The company simply needs sound and genuine management to thrive, it does not even need outstanding management.
Your reference to ‘restructuring’ and ‘cancers’ appears to apply only to labour costs when this is but a part of the company’s overall operating costs. Couldn’t help but wonder why you singled this out alone given the tonnage of posts regarding the multi-million $ inefficiencies in so many other areas being flagged in this thread alone.
Labour costs, even at the claimed 24% (a figure I very much doubt given the significant outsourcing and casualisation that has taken place in the last ten years) pales into insignificance when compared with the countless screwups in investment decisions, route juggling, airframe selection and fit out, short sighted operational and planning directives which save cents this month and cost dollars over future months, incredibly inefficient rostering (especially in SH but by no means limited to), the many abysmal, failed marketing strategies (SMH today), inconsistent and destructive attempts to develop business partnerships (HIAL’s post above), etc etc bloody etc.
Hence my tongue in cheek reference to the working poor after your ‘but at least with a job’ comment where especially in the likes of the US you have millions of ‘employed’ people working long hours on criminally low hourly rates (or on tips alone) which never quite allow them to save or invest their way out of living near the poverty line. I never want to see that here for the sake of your grandchildren and mine.
I was pleased to hear in your last post that you treat your staff considerately and respectfully. (I was also pleased to hear that you broadened the area of blame a little further than in your original post too). I suspect that this fact has been a real contributor to your business longevity. Sadly too few employers, unlike you, acknowledge or have acknowledged this, like the current and recent Boards and CEOs.
In order to attempt to offset this power imbalace unionism developed historically and not unexpectedly. I recall my grandfather telling me about how he and his co workers fought vehemently to move on from the 48 hour week to gain the 8 hour day - "8 hours labor, 8 hours recreation, 8 hours rest". Just a couple of years ago a mate of mine at the time who had his own small aviation company was bemoaning the audacity of the powers that be who introduced the 38 hour week and its impact on his bottom line. My mind immediately went back to my grandfather’s stories. Some things just don’t change.
Of course there are many examples of unionism going too far and this is simply not acceptable. I have to say that these days it is relatively rare thanks to appropriate legislation. If the best that gentlemen journalist from WA can do to slight the LH EBA by making out that pilots demand to be supplied with three vegetables in their meals then that says something about just how desperate and unable to find supporting examples he was.
By and large QF employees would willingly negotiate down their salaries and conditions within reason, in return for a little goodwill and a little reassurance about the future of the company. They have seen neither of these on the table for many years, even if three veges may be there.
Sorry to be a little longwinded but I thought you were entitled to understand where I was coming from.
LD
I have a few points in response to your original post.
The way I read it you were proposing putting Qantas into Voluntary Administration as a business strategy because excessive labour costs are its primary problem/failure.
What Qf needs does not need, in my humble opinion, is short sighted administrators with limited airline management experience and whose primary goal is most often no more than to keep the business afloat long enough to salvage what they can for the creditors and of course their own hefty fees. Their roles too often morph into that of liquidators.
This would be simply no improvement on the standard of management that the company (here I mean the people in the company and the shareholders as these two groups are really the company) has already agonized under for well over a decade and with no better outcomes. The company simply needs sound and genuine management to thrive, it does not even need outstanding management.
Your reference to ‘restructuring’ and ‘cancers’ appears to apply only to labour costs when this is but a part of the company’s overall operating costs. Couldn’t help but wonder why you singled this out alone given the tonnage of posts regarding the multi-million $ inefficiencies in so many other areas being flagged in this thread alone.
Labour costs, even at the claimed 24% (a figure I very much doubt given the significant outsourcing and casualisation that has taken place in the last ten years) pales into insignificance when compared with the countless screwups in investment decisions, route juggling, airframe selection and fit out, short sighted operational and planning directives which save cents this month and cost dollars over future months, incredibly inefficient rostering (especially in SH but by no means limited to), the many abysmal, failed marketing strategies (SMH today), inconsistent and destructive attempts to develop business partnerships (HIAL’s post above), etc etc bloody etc.
Hence my tongue in cheek reference to the working poor after your ‘but at least with a job’ comment where especially in the likes of the US you have millions of ‘employed’ people working long hours on criminally low hourly rates (or on tips alone) which never quite allow them to save or invest their way out of living near the poverty line. I never want to see that here for the sake of your grandchildren and mine.
I was pleased to hear in your last post that you treat your staff considerately and respectfully. (I was also pleased to hear that you broadened the area of blame a little further than in your original post too). I suspect that this fact has been a real contributor to your business longevity. Sadly too few employers, unlike you, acknowledge or have acknowledged this, like the current and recent Boards and CEOs.
In order to attempt to offset this power imbalace unionism developed historically and not unexpectedly. I recall my grandfather telling me about how he and his co workers fought vehemently to move on from the 48 hour week to gain the 8 hour day - "8 hours labor, 8 hours recreation, 8 hours rest". Just a couple of years ago a mate of mine at the time who had his own small aviation company was bemoaning the audacity of the powers that be who introduced the 38 hour week and its impact on his bottom line. My mind immediately went back to my grandfather’s stories. Some things just don’t change.
Of course there are many examples of unionism going too far and this is simply not acceptable. I have to say that these days it is relatively rare thanks to appropriate legislation. If the best that gentlemen journalist from WA can do to slight the LH EBA by making out that pilots demand to be supplied with three vegetables in their meals then that says something about just how desperate and unable to find supporting examples he was.
By and large QF employees would willingly negotiate down their salaries and conditions within reason, in return for a little goodwill and a little reassurance about the future of the company. They have seen neither of these on the table for many years, even if three veges may be there.
Sorry to be a little longwinded but I thought you were entitled to understand where I was coming from.
LD
Last edited by LookinDown; 1st Mar 2014 at 10:05.
JB? I doubt it. I think that he has an agenda that sees QF burnt, just like they did to him. Payback is a bitch, especially when your nemesis has deeeeeeeeep pockets.
QF needs a new face, someone not on our scope, a hidden gem sought out by a careful and thoughtful board. Oh, wait...
Seriously: things have come to a head. The best possible outcome is to get a new CEO who has a team on call to come in and provide some goals, direction and adult super-*******-vision on the airline. The staff would rally around such a leader. The bones of a good airline remain, but not for much longer.
Foremost though, we need a new board. With actual airline experience, and a roadmap out of the morass in which we currently flounder. And a chairman not hostage to a bankrupt ideology countering uppity unions demanding such outrages as a living wage for their members.
QF needs a new face, someone not on our scope, a hidden gem sought out by a careful and thoughtful board. Oh, wait...
Seriously: things have come to a head. The best possible outcome is to get a new CEO who has a team on call to come in and provide some goals, direction and adult super-*******-vision on the airline. The staff would rally around such a leader. The bones of a good airline remain, but not for much longer.
Foremost though, we need a new board. With actual airline experience, and a roadmap out of the morass in which we currently flounder. And a chairman not hostage to a bankrupt ideology countering uppity unions demanding such outrages as a living wage for their members.
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The best would be Gail Kelly.
What about that Air New Zealand CEO (and members of his board), paying them in Australian Dollars could be enough to make them cross the puddle. A Kiwi is still better than a dud Irishman who comes with no luck.
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cattle truck quote; "What about that Air New Zealand CEO (and members of his board), paying them in Australian Dollars could be enough to make them cross the puddle. A Kiwi is still better than a dud Irishman who comes with no luck."
No thanks, get one of your own ilk to fix your cr.p!
No thanks, get one of your own ilk to fix your cr.p!
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What about you Steve? Why don't you put your hand up for the "big gig" as you keep telling everyone that you have all the answers and solutions on how QF should be run. Or is responsibility not your gig?
For all you idiots at Qantas who think outsourcing and offshoring maintenance and overhaul was such a good idea, I have a little message for you..
Yesterday the Russian parliament unanimously gave President Putin the authority to use force in the Ukraine. Better informed and more experienced sources expect the Russian tanks to begin rolling within days and go right through to the Polish border.
The Ukraine to Russia is the equivalent of what Cuba is to America and they will not tolerate the $5 billion worth of American meddling in their back yard, period.
I never thought I would be defending the actions of a former KGB man and criticising the stupidity of Washington in fomenting revolution, but there you have it.
Now exactly how smart will offshoring look if this situation gets out of hand? The West has badly overplayed its hand this time.
A Russian appreciation of the situation can be seen at the link below, I will not share my American sources except to say what you read in the mainstream media about Ukranian democracy is BS, the fathers of the hard men of the Western Ukraine fought on Hitlers side and gleefully helped them massacre Jews, ethnic Poles and Russians.
14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://vineyardsaker.(insert b-l-o-g-s-p-o-t).com.au/
Yesterday the Russian parliament unanimously gave President Putin the authority to use force in the Ukraine. Better informed and more experienced sources expect the Russian tanks to begin rolling within days and go right through to the Polish border.
The Ukraine to Russia is the equivalent of what Cuba is to America and they will not tolerate the $5 billion worth of American meddling in their back yard, period.
I never thought I would be defending the actions of a former KGB man and criticising the stupidity of Washington in fomenting revolution, but there you have it.
Now exactly how smart will offshoring look if this situation gets out of hand? The West has badly overplayed its hand this time.
A Russian appreciation of the situation can be seen at the link below, I will not share my American sources except to say what you read in the mainstream media about Ukranian democracy is BS, the fathers of the hard men of the Western Ukraine fought on Hitlers side and gleefully helped them massacre Jews, ethnic Poles and Russians.
14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://vineyardsaker.(insert b-l-o-g-s-p-o-t).com.au/
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Who is the HR person Steve? I can assure it isn't me. Yes responsibility definitely isn't your thing. You are actually worse than other union hacks where you are all for throwing the grenade over the fence and screaming how it should be done but when the time comes for you to stand up and actually DO something you will be found cowering in the corner.
You would still fall for the left handed spanner yarn.
You would still fall for the left handed spanner yarn.
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Aj is related by marriage to willie Walsh. No thx.
Cargo 747, I can assure you any engineer, including Steve,could run the airline better than aj. Far more responsible and intelligent and understanding of the airline business than aj and his board could ever hope to be.
All you like to do is attack and attempt to intimidate those that want the airline to grow and prosper. Maybe you should exam your motives
Cargo 747, I can assure you any engineer, including Steve,could run the airline better than aj. Far more responsible and intelligent and understanding of the airline business than aj and his board could ever hope to be.
All you like to do is attack and attempt to intimidate those that want the airline to grow and prosper. Maybe you should exam your motives
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bankrunner quote; "Otherwise what's Herb Kelleher up to nowadays?"
Good guy, popular with his employees at SW, but probably dead or close to it from smoking too much. Even he would have a hard time though, dealing with QF employees.
Good guy, popular with his employees at SW, but probably dead or close to it from smoking too much. Even he would have a hard time though, dealing with QF employees.
