MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
Rumor: 27th Feb the 767 and 747 fleet will either
be grounded or an announcement of grounding will be made.
be grounded or an announcement of grounding will be made.
We've been told that the ONLY thing that isn't on the table is the 65%
I believe the 767 fleet manager mentioned something about jumping at shadows on her fleet blog......
The rumours will only get worse as the day nears....
Things to remember.......
1. Whilst both major players are losing money (yes jetstar, that means you too, you're part of the group aren't you?) the market will not be this way forever. We need to adapt to the market now, but we also need to be able to swing back as the market stabilises...
2. Whilst I don't doubt some red tail cuts will be made, the review is more about ways they can 'unlock capital' ie we are looking for a short term cash injection, and since Q can't just go running to the other government backed airlines for a handout, they have to find it by selling assets.
It's not going to be pretty, but the entire grounding of 2 fleets? I would say highly unlikely. I know the same rumours are on Qrewroom as well, but I just can't see it.
MC.....I hope you're right!
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All I will say is do the maths!!!!! Look behind the grandstand statements and look at the hard numbers!! The business needs wholesale change, there has been no external shocks and it still loses $300million for 6 months.... As I say just do the maths!! Good luck to all in QF this will be a very rocky road.
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goodonyamate,
It actually fits in very nicely with the 65% concept, and the industrial attack that I think we all know is coming. Remember that figure applies to the GROUP, not Red tails.
Dispose of the 14 or so 767's remaining, and replace them with Jetstar A320's for the capacity. Problem of all the JQ aircraft parked around the world idle is solved, and JQ looks good again.
Don't forget this man grounded the entire airline to make an industrial point, I'd hardly put it beyond him to ground the 767's to make a similar industrial point. "Desperate times" seems a lot more real when you do grandstanding actions.
JQ won't be touched - remember he has already come out and said how they are an efficient low cost carrier.
I really hope I'm wrong.
It actually fits in very nicely with the 65% concept, and the industrial attack that I think we all know is coming. Remember that figure applies to the GROUP, not Red tails.
Dispose of the 14 or so 767's remaining, and replace them with Jetstar A320's for the capacity. Problem of all the JQ aircraft parked around the world idle is solved, and JQ looks good again.
Don't forget this man grounded the entire airline to make an industrial point, I'd hardly put it beyond him to ground the 767's to make a similar industrial point. "Desperate times" seems a lot more real when you do grandstanding actions.
JQ won't be touched - remember he has already come out and said how they are an efficient low cost carrier.
I really hope I'm wrong.
Nunc est bibendum
Who's going to fly Hesse A320s?
Seriously, this stuff is insane. No one has a freaking clue. Some of the guesses here may turn out to be correct but at the moment they're guesses.
PS: if QF pull out of every international route they have enough A330s to cover for grounding the 767s. Can't see it happening but it could be done.
Seriously, this stuff is insane. No one has a freaking clue. Some of the guesses here may turn out to be correct but at the moment they're guesses.
PS: if QF pull out of every international route they have enough A330s to cover for grounding the 767s. Can't see it happening but it could be done.
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I believe the 767 fleet manager mentioned something about jumping at shadows on her fleet blog......
All they are concerned about is no ones distracted from flying aeroplanes & are they going to have jobs at X point in time down the track.
These clowns (AJ) grounded an airline because of an impending lockout. Roll forward 3 years & they can leave an entire workforce in the dark about their futures and it's ops normal.
Nunc est bibendum
With all due respect. Flight Ops wouldn't know WTF is going on with the Strategic Review.
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The article in todays Australian is quite interesting, Emirates is warning against the very thing that Qantas are asking for...
EMIRATES president Tim Clark has warned against a resurgence in “protectionist rhetoric” in aviation policymaking as he predicted another challenging year. The Dubai-based carrier is expected to continue its relentless global expansion this year after ordering 200 aircraft at last year’s Dubai Airshow, with 27 new planes - including 13 Airbus A380 superjumbos - due to join its fleet this year.
It took delivery of 24 aircraft last year and launched nine new routes as first-half passenger traffic increased 15 per cent, revenues rose 12 per cent and load factors held at about 79 per cent.
The airline has already unveiled new routes to Kiev, Taipei and Boston, as well as the Nigerian ports of Abuja and Kano, to bring total destinations to well over 140.
Mr Clark said the airline now contributed “a whopping 28 per cent of Dubai’s GDP and supports, in one way or another, 250,000 jobs” and expected to carry 70 million passengers annually by 2020.
“Despite our long-standing nemesis of fuel costs and the weakening of major currencies against the dollar, Emirates posted a modest 2 per cent profit growth to $US463 million ($517.8m) at the end of the half year to September 2013,” he said in the airline’s international and government affairs journal Open Sky. He said this year would be “no less challenging”.
“The resurgence of protectionist rhetoric in aviation policymaking could potentially undo all the benefits that competition brings to consumers,” he said.
The newsletter expanded on Mr Clark’s comments with an article that claimed state-owned airlines were “competitively neutral” and that state ownership alone did not distort competition.
Emirates, which faces opposition to its expanding global footprint from some unions and airlines, contended the phrase “state-owned” was used by critics to conjure up “the spectre of illicit state aid without using the word subsidy”.
“They paint a picture of good versus evil: wholesome privately held airlines forced to struggle in an unfair contest against state-owned carriers that, as the script would have it, enjoy unfettered access to state support and advantages,” the newsletter said.
“But facts do not support this argument in aviation or other sectors. In fact, on closer examination the argument is political rhetoric that ignores international economic policy and requires the proponents to ignore the state-owned elephants in their own cherished alliance living rooms.”
The newsletter pointed to European Union law and policy making it “expressly clear” there was no preference for public versus private ownership.
“Rather, the litmus tests is whether an entity receives competition-distorting subsidies or is advantaged by legislation,” it said.
“The state ownership, competitive distortion argument is especially misplaced in aviation given the significant number of airlines that have some degree of state ownership.”
The argument comes as Qantas is claiming that it is at a disadvantage to Virgin Australia because the smaller airline is backed by state-owned Etihad and the government-supported Singapore Airlines and Air New Zealand. Qantas has asked the federal government to intervene to help rectify what it sees as an unlevel playing field, with the focus now on a debt guarantee.
A Qantas spokesman said the Emirates argument applied to the international market and not to the situation in Australia’s domestic market.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
It took delivery of 24 aircraft last year and launched nine new routes as first-half passenger traffic increased 15 per cent, revenues rose 12 per cent and load factors held at about 79 per cent.
The airline has already unveiled new routes to Kiev, Taipei and Boston, as well as the Nigerian ports of Abuja and Kano, to bring total destinations to well over 140.
Mr Clark said the airline now contributed “a whopping 28 per cent of Dubai’s GDP and supports, in one way or another, 250,000 jobs” and expected to carry 70 million passengers annually by 2020.
“Despite our long-standing nemesis of fuel costs and the weakening of major currencies against the dollar, Emirates posted a modest 2 per cent profit growth to $US463 million ($517.8m) at the end of the half year to September 2013,” he said in the airline’s international and government affairs journal Open Sky. He said this year would be “no less challenging”.
“The resurgence of protectionist rhetoric in aviation policymaking could potentially undo all the benefits that competition brings to consumers,” he said.
The newsletter expanded on Mr Clark’s comments with an article that claimed state-owned airlines were “competitively neutral” and that state ownership alone did not distort competition.
Emirates, which faces opposition to its expanding global footprint from some unions and airlines, contended the phrase “state-owned” was used by critics to conjure up “the spectre of illicit state aid without using the word subsidy”.
“They paint a picture of good versus evil: wholesome privately held airlines forced to struggle in an unfair contest against state-owned carriers that, as the script would have it, enjoy unfettered access to state support and advantages,” the newsletter said.
“But facts do not support this argument in aviation or other sectors. In fact, on closer examination the argument is political rhetoric that ignores international economic policy and requires the proponents to ignore the state-owned elephants in their own cherished alliance living rooms.”
The newsletter pointed to European Union law and policy making it “expressly clear” there was no preference for public versus private ownership.
“Rather, the litmus tests is whether an entity receives competition-distorting subsidies or is advantaged by legislation,” it said.
“The state ownership, competitive distortion argument is especially misplaced in aviation given the significant number of airlines that have some degree of state ownership.”
The argument comes as Qantas is claiming that it is at a disadvantage to Virgin Australia because the smaller airline is backed by state-owned Etihad and the government-supported Singapore Airlines and Air New Zealand. Qantas has asked the federal government to intervene to help rectify what it sees as an unlevel playing field, with the focus now on a debt guarantee.
A Qantas spokesman said the Emirates argument applied to the international market and not to the situation in Australia’s domestic market.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
Seriously, it's a bit f$&king rich for Emirates to be preaching the free trade line when most of their unskilled labour is indentured from the subcontinent and most of their skilled labour is in town at the Sheikh's pleasure. If I could get baggage handlers on a couple of bucks an hour I'd be happy to allow free trade to be king and avoid any form of 'protectionist rhetoric'. 
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Regarding the 27th Announcement.
I'm expecting Alan to provide the statement the groups operating losses have been XYZ million dollars.
Structural change required and we are chopping $2 Billion out of the business. Blah Blah Blah
If he wants to get staff on board and I doubt very much he cares.
They need to be open & honest and more importantly accountable as to where the losses are.
And as mentioned in other posts. What's happened since the rosy outlook being promoted last October.
Im not expecting Alan to provide profit or loss figures for QF Intl / QF Dom / JQ Dom / JQ Intl and other ventures such as Jetconnect or the other franchises.
So the 27th is going to be another manufactured crisis to enable Joyce to continue on his merry way of Jetstarizing the Qantas business.
Hold on tight fellas. By the times Joyce finishes I don't think the Qantas business will resemble anything like what we've been use to.
MC
I'm expecting Alan to provide the statement the groups operating losses have been XYZ million dollars.
Structural change required and we are chopping $2 Billion out of the business. Blah Blah Blah
If he wants to get staff on board and I doubt very much he cares.
They need to be open & honest and more importantly accountable as to where the losses are.
And as mentioned in other posts. What's happened since the rosy outlook being promoted last October.
Im not expecting Alan to provide profit or loss figures for QF Intl / QF Dom / JQ Dom / JQ Intl and other ventures such as Jetconnect or the other franchises.
So the 27th is going to be another manufactured crisis to enable Joyce to continue on his merry way of Jetstarizing the Qantas business.
Hold on tight fellas. By the times Joyce finishes I don't think the Qantas business will resemble anything like what we've been use to.
MC
I wonder if an entity that
would get favourable treatment.
A mere 28% of a countries GDP would I reckon get more than just a little help and support from the government of the day.
Mr Clark said the airline now contributed “a whopping 28 per cent of Dubai’s GDP and supports, in one way or another, 250,000 jobs”
A mere 28% of a countries GDP would I reckon get more than just a little help and support from the government of the day.
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SNAFU an INDUSTRY like that should get support from its government in the form of helpful policy and EK does. Imagine if Oz governments were pro aviation over the last ten years instead of pro Auto. Sydney might actually have a second non curfew airport by now and a regulator that was helpful to you.....great for the industry. That's the kind of support EK gets because their government sees it as good for the country.
The Sheikh down the road bailed out the government's debt not the Airlines so EK would have been just fine. The IMF bailed out a bunch of countries too and how are their airlines doing?? Annoying as you might find it but EK is a well managed and successful business. It is integral to the success of Dubai and the government recognises that with policy not cash.
The Sheikh down the road bailed out the government's debt not the Airlines so EK would have been just fine. The IMF bailed out a bunch of countries too and how are their airlines doing?? Annoying as you might find it but EK is a well managed and successful business. It is integral to the success of Dubai and the government recognises that with policy not cash.
Qantas expected to shed 3000 jobs | 3AW
Up to 3000 workers are expected to be laid off from Qantas, as the airline tries to get itself back on a solid financial footing.
Qantas is due to hand down its half-year results next Thursday with the company tipped to announce a $300 million loss.
Fairfax Radio understands Qantas will use the opportunity to announce sweeping changes. Sources have told Fairfax Radio that planes will be sold and some aircraft will be retired; routes will be changed and others dumped.
It’s believed Qantas flights to Johannesburg will go. The airline is also expected to cut flights from Dubai to London.
Fairfax Radio understands up to 10 per cent of staff will be affected by this announcement, which equates to about 3000 jobs being axed.
Qantas is due to hand down its half-year results next Thursday with the company tipped to announce a $300 million loss.
Fairfax Radio understands Qantas will use the opportunity to announce sweeping changes. Sources have told Fairfax Radio that planes will be sold and some aircraft will be retired; routes will be changed and others dumped.
It’s believed Qantas flights to Johannesburg will go. The airline is also expected to cut flights from Dubai to London.
Fairfax Radio understands up to 10 per cent of staff will be affected by this announcement, which equates to about 3000 jobs being axed.
short flights long nights
So if that's another 3000, then it's actually 4000 jobs.
So how many have they laid off to date before the next lot?