MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
The absolute sad reality in all of this is that we have all known for a very long time that this train wreck was inevitable.
I just had a look at this thread again. Note the dates involved and the message is similar to the one we have today.http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...-business.html
And then you watch people like Xenophon and you tip your hat to their best endeavours, but you realise what we are all up against when you watch the interview that Nick Xenophon had with Carson Scott on Sky business channel the other day.
I just had a look at this thread again. Note the dates involved and the message is similar to the one we have today.http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...-business.html
And then you watch people like Xenophon and you tip your hat to their best endeavours, but you realise what we are all up against when you watch the interview that Nick Xenophon had with Carson Scott on Sky business channel the other day.
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To those who doubt that VA's financial problems were the catalyst for this, remember that it reported a 100 Mill loss this year and is currently engaged in a turf and capacity war with a much larger rival. The cash injection from Etihad is also intended to weaken Qantas, with an eye to taking advantage lucrative routes outbound from Australia.
I'm tipping he thought he had the fare war covered due to his large cash balance, knowing that Borghetti didn't have anywhere near the cash reserves he did. It would appear that he assumed Borghetti was stupid enough to get into a gunfight with a knife. I would bet London to a brick that Borghetti had assurances of Capital support from EY SQ and NZ long before he embarked on the capacity war with Qantas.
Joyce took it hook line and sinker. Now he is bleating that VA are cheats. Borghetti's not a cheat, he's just one step ahead of Joyce, which is understandable given that JB knows just about everything there is to know about Qantas and Joyce thinks he knows just about everything about everything. And whatever JB doesn't know, you can guarantee he's got people on the inside who are willing to sell out the little irish git.
When Joyce says he's playing with both hands tied behind his back he's absolutely correct, but it has nothing to do with the QSA or foreign governments and everything to do with the best CEO qantas never had.
It's only a matter of (short) time until the pilots pay comes into the publics attention.
is already onto it. Seems that's the #1 priority for saving the company. No mention of any of Alan's various Asian debacles, of course.
..pay people what they are worth and what QF can sustain...at all levels..
Last edited by Arnold E; 7th Dec 2013 at 08:04.
Well I for one really hope pilot salaries aren't cut in any way shape or form as QF bumbles through this. There is enough pressure on maintaining even current conditions as there is in this industry at the moment.
Good luck fellas.
The Don
Good luck fellas.
The Don
Qantas shares have been downgraded to 'Junk status' by Standard and Poor's.
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Va load factors and yields have been better than qf past few months. I think you will find their results a lot better than qf albeit still a loss. Jb has done a good job as he planned for the downside (capital injection) unlike Joyce who never contemplated not winning (poor strategist as you always cover the downside first) and now runs crying to mum
Couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag.
Couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag.
Its all over (almost)
Here we go again as the vultures circle
Corporate raider Greg Woolley is leading a consortium of investors who plan to approach Qantas Airways and the federal government with a plan to buy the airline’s planes in a deal that could be worth more than $5 billion. Several European banks have expressed interest in providing debt for the venture, although Mr Woolley wants as much funding as possible to come from Australian sources.
The deal would mark the third tilt at Qantas by Mr Woolley, who helped found Allco Equity Partners in 2004 with the late David Coe. AEP was later part of the Airline Partners Australia consortium that failed in a $11 billion bid for Qantas in 2006. Mr Woolley and investors such as Mark Carnegie, John Singleton, Peter Gregg and Geoff Dixon bought shares in Qantas in 2012 and agitated for support for a major change in strategy at the airline. They later sold their shares for a considerable profit.
Corporate raiders circle ?junk? Qantas
Corporate raider Greg Woolley is leading a consortium of investors who plan to approach Qantas Airways and the federal government with a plan to buy the airline’s planes in a deal that could be worth more than $5 billion. Several European banks have expressed interest in providing debt for the venture, although Mr Woolley wants as much funding as possible to come from Australian sources.
The deal would mark the third tilt at Qantas by Mr Woolley, who helped found Allco Equity Partners in 2004 with the late David Coe. AEP was later part of the Airline Partners Australia consortium that failed in a $11 billion bid for Qantas in 2006. Mr Woolley and investors such as Mark Carnegie, John Singleton, Peter Gregg and Geoff Dixon bought shares in Qantas in 2012 and agitated for support for a major change in strategy at the airline. They later sold their shares for a considerable profit.
Corporate raiders circle ?junk? Qantas
Nunc est bibendum
Alan's lost his bonus- or given up depending on which version is being peddled- but kept his base pay. I'm more than happy to give up my bonus in sympathy with him! 
My base pay on the other hand stays what it's supposed to be.
My base pay on the other hand stays what it's supposed to be.
Oh Dear Keg. Going to miss that bonus staff travel voucher next year. [Face value notionally equivalent to about 45 minutes salary, but in practise worth a lot less queued up behind all those managers and contractors.] Damn.
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Dream 747
You are not getting the subtlety.
JB's value to his shareholders is not being measured in VA profits (or losses) it is being measured by the fact that he has seemingly sent his only competitor to the wall.
Imagine what his P&L is going to look like in two years time when Qantas is either gone or had to abandon the ludicrous 65% line in the sand in order to chase sustainable yields. It doesn't matter how many assets Al sells to raise cash, he will eventually have to cut capacity and put ticket prices up. That will benefit JB far more than Joyce. Because JB's cost base is lower.
Either way JB and his shareholders would seem to be sitting pretty at present. And don't ever forget, no matter what JB says publicly, he has a deep desire to burn the Qantas board and CEO to the ground.
JB's value to his shareholders is not being measured in VA profits (or losses) it is being measured by the fact that he has seemingly sent his only competitor to the wall.
Imagine what his P&L is going to look like in two years time when Qantas is either gone or had to abandon the ludicrous 65% line in the sand in order to chase sustainable yields. It doesn't matter how many assets Al sells to raise cash, he will eventually have to cut capacity and put ticket prices up. That will benefit JB far more than Joyce. Because JB's cost base is lower.
Either way JB and his shareholders would seem to be sitting pretty at present. And don't ever forget, no matter what JB says publicly, he has a deep desire to burn the Qantas board and CEO to the ground.
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Out one hand and in the other (think about it)
Folks, I hate to tell you this but in relation to AJ losing his bonus, this is merely a 'technicality'. I have personally witnessed this style of smoke and mirrors stunt more than once before. This is how it works - In one hand an executive takes a pay hit, maybe a salary cut or he forgoes a bonus. Let's make the figure (remember this is an example), $500k. So now what the board do is reconfigure his pay structure, jack up other things like sign on fees, retention fees, living away from your motherland fees, here is a hike of 1000% on your daily living fees etching etc etc. Or another crafty trick is to pay one of the executives 'other companies' (or it could be the executives mother or best friends company if you get my drift) an exorbitant consultancy fee for some pissy audit, management training course or risk managemt work. All of the above will exceed the $500k bonus the executive has forgone, in fact he will actually get more than the $500k, securing a payrise!!! Meanwhile all the staff are none the wiser, blissfully going about their business and getting rogered without even knowing it.
If you don't think this scenario is real, you need to climb out from under the rock.
In my opinion there is no way in heaven or hell that Joyce would give up a single cent. Now this is just a thought out loud of course, what would I know. But I would be willing to bet both my nuts and my stalk that if Joyce stays around his bloated lazy ass board will ensure he is 'compensated' for the bonus loss.
If you don't think this scenario is real, you need to climb out from under the rock.
In my opinion there is no way in heaven or hell that Joyce would give up a single cent. Now this is just a thought out loud of course, what would I know. But I would be willing to bet both my nuts and my stalk that if Joyce stays around his bloated lazy ass board will ensure he is 'compensated' for the bonus loss.
And don't ever forget, no matter what JB says publicly, he has a deep desire to burn the Qantas board and CEO to the ground.
If he hadn't taken the job at VA... alot of us would be out of the job right now...
It just seems Joyce just chases numbers, (well he did train as a mathematician) It's all about market share and volume to him. Everything else can go to hell in a handbasket. Now lets sell the stuff that makes us money like the FF program.... WTF?! If this was a purely low cost carrier vs low cost carrier, then yes, AJ was probably the man for the job.
Borghetti seems to be chasing a vision. He doesn't care about how big his share of the market is, just as long as that share is paying the bills and making money. It may not be making the money at the moment, but in the long run, he expects it will. i.e his implementation of GDS at VA..cost them a packet now, but in the long run secures additional revenue streams.
JB saw that low cost wasn't were it was at, radically changed things and proved to be far nimbler than Qantas could adapt. Thereby screwing the Qantas plan of ending Virgin with a straight low cost carrier slug out.
Now with Virgin with it's hand on the lowest cost fare lever in the form of 60% of Tiger, that'll pincer Jetstar.... as they seem to compete purely on price and will have to follow Tiger's lead. I'm guessing that Tiger's cost base is lower that J*s....
Yeah I'd say JB was a tad pi$$ed off....
