MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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Trouble is....who would want to buy Jetstar as a stand alone entity?
The Jetstar conundrum...
With the proviso that its after cocktail hour, I think that the non-sale of Jetstar is telling in many ways. Everyone thinks that due dilligence would reveal that JQ is very much a dependant child still, and is unable to exist on its own. The details of how much monay it bleeds from mainline have always been kept obscured in reports of financial results.
If Jetstar was the amaaaazing business that these idioti have claimed then they would have sold it to themselves and let Qantas flounder. That they didn't and won't shows that they don't believe their own rhetoric. (Along with everyone else)
For years now the only way that Jetstar can compete with Qantas on many routes has been when Qantas abandons those routes.
The initial case for Jetstar kinda made sense, but it is now larger than its natural market domestically, and an open wound internationaly. In a more rational world JQ would be a domestic + Bali & Phuket carrier less than 2/3 its current size. It would still be the carrier of last resort, discounting the excrable TigerAir.
If Jetstar was the amaaaazing business that these idioti have claimed then they would have sold it to themselves and let Qantas flounder. That they didn't and won't shows that they don't believe their own rhetoric. (Along with everyone else)
For years now the only way that Jetstar can compete with Qantas on many routes has been when Qantas abandons those routes.
The initial case for Jetstar kinda made sense, but it is now larger than its natural market domestically, and an open wound internationaly. In a more rational world JQ would be a domestic + Bali & Phuket carrier less than 2/3 its current size. It would still be the carrier of last resort, discounting the excrable TigerAir.
For years now the only way that Jetstar can compete with Qantas on many routes has been when Qantas abandons those routes.
Note the performance of the brand where they have to stand on their own feet.
JQ Asia - fail
JQ NZ - fail
JQ Japan - fail
JQ Vietnam - fail
JQ Int - shrinking massively, + ex QF routes (mel - sin, syd - hnl, cns - nrt, cns kix) still a fail
JQ HKG - stop it hurts
Why is Jetstar NZ a fail, it is profitable and has bought low fares to the NZ population. I find it interesting that when a couple of people made the mistake of wishing Qantas out of business lots of Qantas peeps got very upset that people were wanting to see them out of work. Yet on so many posts here people are wishing for ALL those Jetstar employees and families to be pit out of work. Yes Jetstar has had an effect on big brother but to blame it for ALL Qantas' problems is too simplistic and an 'easy' out.
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JQ Asia - fail
JQ NZ - fail
JQ Japan - fail
JQ Vietnam - fail
JQ Int - shrinking massively, + ex QF routes (mel - sin, syd - hnl, cns - nrt, cns kix) still a fail
JQ HKG - stop it hurts
JQ NZ - fail
JQ Japan - fail
JQ Vietnam - fail
JQ Int - shrinking massively, + ex QF routes (mel - sin, syd - hnl, cns - nrt, cns kix) still a fail
JQ HKG - stop it hurts
Dual AOC - Fail
I do note the change of language from the likes of Strambie. Stating QF mainline may return to more "premium leisure" destinations. The first two were Gold Coast & Hamilton Island.
Additionally deploying the A330 on SYD-HNL & also increasing it's frequency.
There's been talk of new mainline destinations & returning to previously serviced destinations. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
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Yes, Jetstar NZ is profitable. Costs of $24.3M with income of $26.8M equals a profit of $2.5M. However the source of income for Jetstar NZ is Jetstar Australia ie. JQ AU pays JQ NZ for labour costs + 10% which is then paid back as profit.
As far as the JQ NZ operation being profitable for the QF group, who knows...
I don't think anyone is wishing anyone else out of a job, but questioning the management that might end in everyone being out of a job is probably appropriate.
If the business case of being the cheapest in the market to make the most money was the right one, then surely the results should be coming in by now...
As far as the JQ NZ operation being profitable for the QF group, who knows...
I don't think anyone is wishing anyone else out of a job, but questioning the management that might end in everyone being out of a job is probably appropriate.
If the business case of being the cheapest in the market to make the most money was the right one, then surely the results should be coming in by now...
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Even more reason
Even more reason to sell Jetstar and set it aside of the Qantas Group....see if it actually can survive...which everyone except QF Management and the media that swallow the constant loads of accounting rubbish..
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Goddamnslacker
Even more reason to sell Jetstar and set it aside of the Qantas Group....see if it actually can survive...which everyone except QF Management and the media that swallow the constant loads of accounting rubbish..
Even more reason to sell Jetstar and set it aside of the Qantas Group....see if it actually can survive...which everyone except QF Management and the media that swallow the constant loads of accounting rubbish..
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"Only problem with this theory, is that QANTAS has been left in such a perilously weak state from years of neglect and incompetence, that Jetstar may end up (with decent management and an improved product) being the perfect competitor to squash QANTAS."
I wouldnt say competitor more like a constant Leach....9 A320 basking in the Sun in France, 6 regular A320 on the ground in Japan...787 utilisation to the point of ridiculous for a new type...yeah if competition is driving you to bankruptcy due to one part of the "Qantas Group" bleeding you dry then yes..
I wouldnt say competitor more like a constant Leach....9 A320 basking in the Sun in France, 6 regular A320 on the ground in Japan...787 utilisation to the point of ridiculous for a new type...yeah if competition is driving you to bankruptcy due to one part of the "Qantas Group" bleeding you dry then yes..
The genie is out of the bottle now.
If Qantas sells Jetstar, it'll be to cashed up foreign buyers. More than likely the Chinese. These guys don't play the game on short term outlooks and quarterley statements. They play with the next generation in mind. What's best for china.
One thing is for sure, there will be no more protection of Qantas on its highest yielding routes. Jetstar will crush Qantas. It has a cheaper cost base and if it goes upmarket and even rebrands it'll be a big headache.
If Qantas keep Jetstar, it'll probably crush Qantas too.
If Qantas sells Jetstar, it'll be to cashed up foreign buyers. More than likely the Chinese. These guys don't play the game on short term outlooks and quarterley statements. They play with the next generation in mind. What's best for china.
One thing is for sure, there will be no more protection of Qantas on its highest yielding routes. Jetstar will crush Qantas. It has a cheaper cost base and if it goes upmarket and even rebrands it'll be a big headache.
If Qantas keep Jetstar, it'll probably crush Qantas too.
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More bad news being leaked to the AFR, pre 28th August Results?
The AFR is reporting today the possibility of another 2000 to 3000 jobs to go on top of the 5000 already announced.
The AFR is reporting today the possibility of another 2000 to 3000 jobs to go on top of the 5000 already announced.
Nunc est bibendum
That last one explicitly denied by Joyce about two hours ago. Words like stability, looking to the future, setting up for growth, were just some of the phrases. Said no more job losses beyond what was announced. Well, that's today's plan anyway. 
Time will tell I guess.
Indicated that the 28th will be the announcement about future direction re frequent flyers sell off, splitting AOCs, etc to do possibly do a virgin and so on. He seemed positive about the future and he freely admitted that he had been worried over the last couple of years but is now much more hopeful. Reckoned things were starting to turn for both domestic and international.
Said things are softer at Jetstar. I just figured they must be in EBA negotiations.
I guess we'll know in a couple of weeks how honest he was being.
Time will tell I guess. Indicated that the 28th will be the announcement about future direction re frequent flyers sell off, splitting AOCs, etc to do possibly do a virgin and so on. He seemed positive about the future and he freely admitted that he had been worried over the last couple of years but is now much more hopeful. Reckoned things were starting to turn for both domestic and international.
Said things are softer at Jetstar. I just figured they must be in EBA negotiations.
I guess we'll know in a couple of weeks how honest he was being.
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What...Joyce is talking, really?
Qantas plan sparks cuts concerns
Qantas Airways plans to slash the cost base of its ailing international business by nearly one-third over the next three years, in a move that has sparked speculation of further capacity cuts and job losses.
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beat me to it 600ft-lb I find this piece most interesting
I also find interesting what Jamie Freed says in the video towards the end..
Now a mainstream view, another "fail" to be added to above fail list posts..about 30 sec in the video below...
It feels like he just made it up! No doubt now the management's flawed strategy has damaged the LH business, the board has failed spectacularly in my view. I think LC will be under huge pressure come AGM time.. finally the media may have woken up... well, we will see about that over the coming weeks..
A very sad situation.. but this story is essentially a rehash of what Gareth said the other week, a good effort in trying to unravel his confusing accounting speak.
‘They have more or less cut to the bone already’
An analyst said he struggled to comprehend how Qantas could cut $1 billion from its international division without further route withdrawals and job cuts, even though the airline has so far played down the prospect of more wholesale network changes.
“They will probably announce they will cut another 2000 or 3000 [jobs] on top of the 5000 already announced,” the analyst said.
Another analyst said he was not factoring in all of Qantas’s planned cost savings in his figures – and neither was the market – because “we just don’t have the clarity to break it down”.
Qantas’s current plan is to cut its fleet of fuel-guzzling 747s to nine over the next 18 months, but further acceleration of retirements cannot be ruled out.
However, the airline’s fleet of A330s does not have the range to replace 747s on long routes like Sydney-Los Angeles-New York and Sydney-Johannesburg and Qantas does not have enough A380s available to fill the gap.
Former Qantas chief economist Tony Webber said: “I think they have more or less cut [routes] to the bone already. The problem is actually not in costs at the moment, it is revenue.”
my bold
Qantas plan sparks cuts concerns
An analyst said he struggled to comprehend how Qantas could cut $1 billion from its international division without further route withdrawals and job cuts, even though the airline has so far played down the prospect of more wholesale network changes.
“They will probably announce they will cut another 2000 or 3000 [jobs] on top of the 5000 already announced,” the analyst said.
Another analyst said he was not factoring in all of Qantas’s planned cost savings in his figures – and neither was the market – because “we just don’t have the clarity to break it down”.
Qantas’s current plan is to cut its fleet of fuel-guzzling 747s to nine over the next 18 months, but further acceleration of retirements cannot be ruled out.
However, the airline’s fleet of A330s does not have the range to replace 747s on long routes like Sydney-Los Angeles-New York and Sydney-Johannesburg and Qantas does not have enough A380s available to fill the gap.
Former Qantas chief economist Tony Webber said: “I think they have more or less cut [routes] to the bone already. The problem is actually not in costs at the moment, it is revenue.”
my bold
Qantas plan sparks cuts concerns
"even after the EK alliance it has gotten worse"
It feels like he just made it up! No doubt now the management's flawed strategy has damaged the LH business, the board has failed spectacularly in my view. I think LC will be under huge pressure come AGM time.. finally the media may have woken up... well, we will see about that over the coming weeks..
A very sad situation.. but this story is essentially a rehash of what Gareth said the other week, a good effort in trying to unravel his confusing accounting speak.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 17th Aug 2014 at 07:51.
That last one explicitly denied by Joyce about two hours ago
