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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 15th Jul 2014, 07:29
  #4601 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like the price being offered isn't enough to maintain face?
Well that thought did cross my mind for them to react so swiftly to the rumour..

I guess Reuters just made it up....

Indonesia's Lion Air in talks to buy Qantas stake in Jetstar Asia: source | Reuters

How's it go again...."where there is smoke......." an old saying....

Last edited by TIMA9X; 15th Jul 2014 at 07:56.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 10:05
  #4602 (permalink)  
 
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VH-CHEER UP

No one at Qantas is prepared to put their name to the issue of Jetstar Asia's non sale.

That speaks volumes to me.

If I had to guess, it's gone. The only question is when.

I've been posting over the last year that Joyce has been looking for a buyer for the JQ Asian franchises. The only issue is the sale price.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 10:33
  #4603 (permalink)  
 
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The problem may be the tangled web of ownership. Qantas has an official 49% stake, but is widely understood to have bankrolled the investment of their local partner.

So what happens when they want to sell their stake? They can sell the official 49%, but that leaves them with the choice of writing off the 51% the local partner officially owns, or keeping that silent partnership going. The second way leaves them with the majority shares and no control in a venture run by Lion Air.

I expect a complete capitulation and a book loss of hundreds of millions on what will be the second of many JQ exits. HK first, now this, next the other two followed by JQ Intl.

I cannot imagine that there is another potential chairman out there so inept as to allow this idiocy to continue.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 19:36
  #4604 (permalink)  
 
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My guess is that they will write down the value of their Asian Assets to zero, that way when they sell them for a dollar they can book a profit.

Any New Chairman or CEO is going to want as much stuff as possible written down before they take over - otherwise that is their first task - a hyper realistic warts and all appreciation of the company followed by some blunt truths for shareholders and staff.

I flew business class Qantas a week or Two ago and my impression was Food? Crap, Equipment? Tired and defective, Staff? Simply fabulous, all of them..
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 21:48
  #4605 (permalink)  
 
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Echoing sunfishes comments. Flew business qantas again the other day. I found food and equipment pretty good (maybe diff aircraft) but cabin service people great. They should be proud of themselves for doing the best job they can given how many must feel about their management at the moment. I'm sure pilots also doing the same.
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Old 15th Jul 2014, 22:58
  #4606 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, we are all hanging in waiting for the day when Joyce , Clifford and the board are booted out. What also amazes me is the conversations that I have had with Flt Ops managers recently that openly shitcan the exec management. They're no longer drinking the kool aid either.
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 14:03
  #4607 (permalink)  
 
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Uh oh. You've started a witch hunt now TrueBe.
Repeat after me : We are all team players here.
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Old 17th Jul 2014, 09:04
  #4608 (permalink)  
 
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Talking

Are we really though?
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 05:22
  #4609 (permalink)  
 
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VN Airlines pumps $25m into Jetstar Pacific - News VietNamNet
Meanwhile, Australia's Qantas Airways contributed more than $10 million, keeping its 30 per cent stake in the joint venture.
Jetstar Pacific General Director Le Hong Ha told Transport newspaper that increase in capital was made at the end of June, and shareholders agreed to increase its charter capital to nearly $121.5 million.
Its only money.
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 05:50
  #4610 (permalink)  
 
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At least it is growing - up to 10 A320s.
When Jetstar bought in it was only 4 737-400s.
I suspect a few other Jetstar subsidiaries might be able to lend them some prepainted aircraft.

Mind you in the meantime VietJet (effectively Air Asia) is up to 15 A320s
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Old 19th Jul 2014, 08:13
  #4611 (permalink)  
 
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$10 Million

Is that a further $10 Million injected by QF into Jetstar Pacific. Do my eyes deceive me?

Tell me this is a very bad joke?

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Old 19th Jul 2014, 08:57
  #4612 (permalink)  
 
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Tell me this is a very bad joke?
Nothing but the sound of a few crickets chirping...
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Old 21st Jul 2014, 03:54
  #4613 (permalink)  
 
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Jetstar Hong Kong gets $US60 million China Eastern loan

China Eastern Airlines has extended a $US60 million loan to Jetstar Hong Kong at a time when the Qantas Airways-backed budget carrier has yet to receive regulatory approval to operate.
Qantas, China Eastern and Hong Kongís Shun Tak Holdings each hold a one-third stake in Jetstar Hong Kong.


The loan from China Eastern was announced to the Hong Kong stock exchange last week. It will not change the ownership structure, but it means the budget carrier will be in the Chinese state-owned airlineís debt. Qantas has not extended any fresh equity or debt capital to Jetstar Hong Kong alongside China Eastern.


"Jetstar Hong Kong has the strong support of our shareholders as we move through the regulatory approval process towards launch, however does not comment about financial arrangements," a Jetstar spokeswoman said.
Qantas has $US66 million of equity invested in Jetstar Hong Kong, down from an initial $US99 million investment in 2012, due to the sale of a stake to Shun Tak last year.


Jetstar Hong Kong sold three of its nine Airbus A320 aircraft earlier this year and its board is understood to be considering the sale of a further three planes. That would leave it with three aircraft, the minimum believed to be needed to obtain its Air Operatorís Certificate.


The timing of the regulatory process is now unclear. Jetstar chief executive Jayne Hrdlicka in May declined to provide any targeted dates.
Ownership?
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 16:13
  #4615 (permalink)  
 
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Qantas considers domestic-international split Again!

Qantas considers domestic-international split

Qantas is considering a split of its domestic and international arms to attract more foreign investment as part of its wide-ranging structural review.


Less than a week after the Senate passed changes to the Qantas Sale Act in a compromise deal, sources said the airline was studying whether it should pursue a similar structure to that of rival Virgin Australia.
Qantas is due to provide an update on its structural review alongside its full-year results next month. It is also considering options such as a part sale of its frequent flyer business or Jetstar as part of the review.
Analysts said a split of the domestic and international arms, to allow greater foreign investment in Qantas' domestic business, would be a positive for the ailing carrier.


''That would take some work but we don't think it would be impossible to achieve,'' Deutsche Bank analyst Cameron McDonald said. ''I do think that [Qantas] obviously are keen to have a seat at [the global airline consolidation] table if and when it becomes appropriate.''
Virgin split the ownership of its domestic and international business in 2012 through an in-specie distribution of shares in its international division to its holders at the time.


Virgin's international division is an unlisted entity with a separate Australian-controlled board and ownership structure from the
domestic division. Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines, Etihad Airways and Sir Richard Branson own nearly 80 per cent of Virgin shares, but the international division is majority Australian-owned to comply with the Air Navigation Act.


Splitting Qantas' domestic and international arms would allow much larger investment by a foreign carrier than is achievable easily in practice even after the Qantas Sale Act changes passed on Friday.
The revisions agreed in a compromise with Labor allow a single foreign airline or investor to hold up to 49 per cent of Qantas, versus prior restrictions that barred a foreign investor from owning more than 25 per cent or group of foreign airlines from owning more than 35 per cent.
However, Qantas must remain 51 per cent Australian-owned to maintain its international traffic rights under the Air Navigation Act. It is already about 38 per cent foreign-owned even though there are no airlines on the register.


That means no foreign carrier could buy more than 11 per cent unless it bought the stock from other foreign shareholders or was issued shares in an equity placement, unless Qantas split its domestic and international arms. Its ability to do so under the latest version of the Qantas Sale Act is unclear, as some references are to ''Qantas'' rather than ''Qantas International'' even though most of the restrictions are of the same type that apply only to Virgin's international arm under the Air Navigation Act.
But Transport Minister Warren Truss in February highlighted the potential for a Qantas split, meaning the government is unlikely to oppose such a move.


In March, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce told a Senate inquiry that talk of any such move was ''hypothetical''. ''We have not got any plans,'' he said at the time.


Qantas in February froze work on a costly plan to split the air operators' certificates, or licences to fly, for its domestic and international division and reintegrated some of the operating management structures for the businesses. However, Mr Joyce has said the split, if revived, could be done in six to nine months. Qantas' domestic and international businesses already report financial results separately.


Qantas is expected to report a full-year pre-tax loss of $747 million, but there is speculation that one-off costs and write-downs could lead to a net loss of more than $1 billion.
CAPA Centre for Aviation executive director Peter Harbison said Qantas should follow Virgin's lead and split its operations, but he did not know if it would.


His aviation consultancy on Tuesday published a detailed report that suggested Qantas would not be able to mimic the Virgin structure without significant opposition.
Potential suitors Emirates and China Southern denied any interest in buying an equity stake in Qantas.

And these documents passed on to me 21.07.2014 from GE and Credit Suisse

Doc 1; Message from Gareth Evans - Update on levelling the playing field (21/07/2014)



For some time we have been calling for the playing field in Australian aviation to be levelled. The Qantas Sale Act places restrictions on us that don’t apply to our competitors or any other Australian business.


With your help, this imbalance has been widely acknowledged over the past six months. Last week, the amended legislation removing the 25 and 35 per cent foreign ownership limits in the Qantas Sale Act was passed.


The requirement for Qantas to be majority Australian-owned is unchanged.


This compromise position follows the rejection of the full repeal of restrictions imposed by the Qantas Sale Act, which was not unexpected.


We welcome the changes that have passed, as they are an important interim step in levelling the distorted domestic aviation market and will allow us to compete more effectively for foreign investment.


However, Qantas is still left with restrictions in the Qantas Sale Act that our competition doesn’t have to contend with.


We believe these restrictions are no longer relevant in today’s global aviation industry. They place limits on our operations and prevent us from accessing important foreign investment in an industry that requires large amounts of capital for aircraft.


While this is a positive step, we will continue to make the case that Australia’s national airline should not be disadvantaged by unique policy settings that do not apply to any of our competitors.


Thank you for your ongoing support on this important issue.


Gareth Evans

Chief Financial Officer
Background

Qantas to remain Australian as Coalition and Labor agree to limit increase in foreign ownership



Doc 2; Qantas should sell Asian Jetstar stake, says Credit Suisse


Credit Suisse believes Qantas should press ahead with a mooted deal to
sell a 49 per cent interest in its Asian Jetstar operations, claiming
this would help rehabilitate the beleaguered airline.

The bank estimates Indonesia’s Lion Air could land the stake for the
relatively small sum of $US35 million given Jetstar Asia’s accrued
losses and the ability to net off capitalised operating leases.

In a note to clients the investment bank cast doubt on the merits of the
acquisition to Lion Air but heralded reports of talks between the two
parties as a positive development for Qantas.

Credit Suisse has been a persistent critic of the airline’s low cost
carrier exposure in Asia and claimed a decision to jettison the Jetstar
Asia holding would reduce “criticism at home” and generate “some
proceeds with which to assist its parent airline’s rehabilitation.”

The bank also noted the sale would end an “investment that has cost it
time and money”.

Credit Suisse points out there is more logic to Lion Air holding a stake
in Jetstar Asia, which is based in Singapore, than Qantas, and predicts
a deal would amplify competition among the region’s low cost carriers,
with Tiger Airways and AirAsia, likely to feel the brunt of the union.

However full service players like Singapore Airlines and Garuda, are
also unlikely to welcome the news.

While Lion Air is unlisted and its sources of funding are opaque, Credit
Suisse expects few serious financial hurdles to the acquisition,
although the analysts stress timing, terms and progress remain unclear.

The analysts stress Jetstar Asia is a loss-making airline with all of
its 18 A322 aircraft leased from third parties “...So we doubt that a
sale would clear much above their assessed market value. Netting off
capitalised operating leases and estimated accrued losses (the latter of
which we admit is a very rough “guesstimate”) means that [Lion Air]
would only need to rustle up an estimated $US35 million.
Notam, My Impression of the above,
1. claims to be a national airline, but wants to be foreign owned....?
2. I can't help thinking both sides of the government are also in on it.. but won't dare let on..

3. Jetstar Asia is one of the stumbling blocks but can't raise a good sale price which may lead to a partial sell-off of FF to raise cash?

4. AJ has been very quiet, leaving it up to others.

Background about splitting the QF AOC (which was stopped in Feb this year) about 2.22 in this video



I have also included some other links relevant for those interested..

Senate Inquiry Alan Joyce Qantas Part 3 18-03-2014 - YouTube

Senate Inquiry Alan Joyce Qantas Part 4 18-03-2014 - YouTube

Senate Inquiry Alan Joyce Qantas Part 5 18-03-2014 - YouTube

Alan Joyce Senate Inquiry 14-03-2014 - YouTube

It appears a lot of stuff is going on behind the scenes with the lead up to the reporting season, more to come no doubt.....
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 20:24
  #4616 (permalink)  
 
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Deju vu!! - they have tried this before! The problem is 'who is Qantas?' And what do they actually want to 'split'? There is no splitting - just application(s) for new entity...
The ASX listing is QAN , the AOC (216147) belongs to QAN ARN and all the approvals/exemptions etc and not to mention workplace agreements and the employer is QAN (ACN)....
Too hard, costly and complex!!!!!
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 20:48
  #4617 (permalink)  
 
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And these documents passed on to me 21.07.2014 from GE and Credit Suisse

Quote:
Doc 1; Message from Gareth Evans - Update on levelling the playing field (21/07/2014)



For some time we have been calling for the playing field in Australian aviation to be levelled. The Qantas Sale Act places restrictions on us that donít apply to our competitors or any other Australian business.


With your help, this imbalance has been widely acknowledged over the past six months. Last week, the amended legislation removing the 25 and 35 per cent foreign ownership limits in the Qantas Sale Act was passed.
You accidentally left a fact out there Tim, I think, which would change the meaning. The document started as a letter to staff, although you might have received it from elsewhere. I received this letter myself in my company inbox.

Therefore Mr Evans is thanking the staff[generically] and possibly others, for their help.

I'm sure you weren't implying that he was thanking GE and Credit Suisse themselves for taking part, but without specifying to whom the letter was addressed, one might come to that conclusion.

Anyway, back to the show.......
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 21:38
  #4618 (permalink)  
 
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JUST RUN THE AIRLINE! STOP COMPLAINING AND BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE!
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 23:27
  #4619 (permalink)  
 
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Qantas doing the splits again, peculiar pre loss stories begin

I'm sure you weren't implying that he was thanking GE and Credit Suisse themselves for taking part, but without specifying to whom the letter was addressed, one might come to that conclusion.
Yep, you are spot on CG, thanks for pointing that out..

Qantas doing the splits again? Pre loss stories ramp up | Plane Talking

The use of the media to soften up the public, the shareholders and the employees in advance of bad financial results is a well established PR technique. In the case of the Qantas full year results, due 28 August, the informed speculation season is on!

Last edited by TIMA9X; 22nd Jul 2014 at 23:41.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 23:39
  #4620 (permalink)  
 
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Just as an aside, I can't help wondering why there were engineering ops manager positions seemingly vacant recently. This became apparent when Avalon was closed and some of those QF staff moved into ops manager positions at other locations.

The question is, when so many staff are being made redundant, were these positions already existing, or have they been created to absorb those who are considered worthy of keeping for the time being?

Asking this question is not saying they don't deserve the jobs, but rather to make the observation that in the light of the current conditions, that jobs seem to materialize from nowhere.

Can someone shed some light on this for clarification?

Just curious.
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