MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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Senator Nick Xenophon today:
If Alan Joyce were a cartoon character he would have to be called the Incredible Sulk!
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Don't all lose heart yet, I think Nick X got a few punch's in but the inquiry was not well presented by all the senators (other than Nick X ) the questions were very tame. The chair appeared to be more worried about keeping to time as it was Friday and he probably wanted to get home... typical for these people..
Not a lot of mainstream coverage really, (because its Friday) and News 24 cut to another news story right in the middle of Nick X's questions and just when it was getting interesting.. The body language from Joyce & Co was good to watch... video will be uploaded on here later this evening...
The best summaries so far from smh Qantas jobs on 'super highway out of the country'
and old faithful Ben Sandilands Qantas says "We're a national strategic asset" | Plane Talking
The feed from Canberra was woeful for this day and age.. it's as if they didn't want us to see it... we are doing our best to sort it out for those who haven't seen it yet..
Not a lot of mainstream coverage really, (because its Friday) and News 24 cut to another news story right in the middle of Nick X's questions and just when it was getting interesting.. The body language from Joyce & Co was good to watch... video will be uploaded on here later this evening...
The best summaries so far from smh Qantas jobs on 'super highway out of the country'
and old faithful Ben Sandilands Qantas says "We're a national strategic asset" | Plane Talking
The feed from Canberra was woeful for this day and age.. it's as if they didn't want us to see it... we are doing our best to sort it out for those who haven't seen it yet..
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Tail Wheel
As a PPruNe moderator your personal comments, however popular they may be, they are not as a moderator, in your remit. You have a personal user name for that purpose.
Remember, I was the moderator who recruited you in the first place, I am disappointed.
AND So how do you justify thread banning me in the Truss thread for a reasonable and proactive post on which I have had many positive and puzzled calls and then make personal comments in this manner.
I wonder just how long it will take for this post to disappear.
Senator Nick Xenophon today:
Quote:
If Alan Joyce were a cartoon character he would have to be called the Incredible Sulk!
Quote:
If Alan Joyce were a cartoon character he would have to be called the Incredible Sulk!
Remember, I was the moderator who recruited you in the first place, I am disappointed.
AND So how do you justify thread banning me in the Truss thread for a reasonable and proactive post on which I have had many positive and puzzled calls and then make personal comments in this manner.
I wonder just how long it will take for this post to disappear.
I think you'll find that's just a quote, with no personal comment attached.
Personally, I don't think Tail's having a go at Senator X at all!
Personally, I don't think Tail's having a go at Senator X at all!
Last edited by C441; 14th Mar 2014 at 08:22.
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Just an interesting quote worth sharing. The Senator has an interesting way with words!
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Audio version of today's Senate inquiry featuring AJ, GE & JH
and another piece in the mainstream press, saving JT?
more to come..
apologies for being slow getting it up ...
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Today was a complete waste of everyone 's time. The Senators proved they do not have the subject matter expertise to ask a half decent question. The engineers union rep did not even know who the accountable manager is for the Qantas AOC...you will all need to get up a little earlier if you want to shine a spotlight on QF.
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dch63.
Yes very embarrassing, but given the merry go round and retrenchments its not so surprising.
On that note and given the situation, CASA should be all over QF like a rash, anyone with an inkling of what Human Factors, SMS and Threat and Error Management would know the temperature has been in the red zone for some time.
This is not to detract from the undoubted skills and ability of the technical and engineering staff it's about the past and current work environment and uncertainty.
How do you give it 100% while the circus is in town.
The engineers union rep did not even know who the accountable manager is for the Qantas AOC
On that note and given the situation, CASA should be all over QF like a rash, anyone with an inkling of what Human Factors, SMS and Threat and Error Management would know the temperature has been in the red zone for some time.
This is not to detract from the undoubted skills and ability of the technical and engineering staff it's about the past and current work environment and uncertainty.
How do you give it 100% while the circus is in town.
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I like Joyce's spin about the parked A320 for JQ Hong Kong.
The inference was its common to have aircraft parked during the start up phase of an airline and used Virgin America as an example.
Maybe the similarities should have been better explained!
The approval for Virgin America to operate in the US was denied by the Department of Transport. The proposed airline structure did not meet the requirement for the airline to be under direct ownership and control of a US entity.
Until such structure was changed. The approval was withheld by the DOT.
The subsequent delay led to a first year operating loss of about $270M.
A more detailed examination would find the Virgin America & JQ Hong Kong start up delays are for similar reasons & Joyce is trying to justify the failures of getting JQ Hong Kong airborne.
MC.
The inference was its common to have aircraft parked during the start up phase of an airline and used Virgin America as an example.
Maybe the similarities should have been better explained!
The approval for Virgin America to operate in the US was denied by the Department of Transport. The proposed airline structure did not meet the requirement for the airline to be under direct ownership and control of a US entity.
Until such structure was changed. The approval was withheld by the DOT.
The subsequent delay led to a first year operating loss of about $270M.
A more detailed examination would find the Virgin America & JQ Hong Kong start up delays are for similar reasons & Joyce is trying to justify the failures of getting JQ Hong Kong airborne.
MC.
Gaunty, that revolting little toad TW deleted a couple of my posts for reasons best known to himself, but jeez! There is a South Park sooooperstar who is wrecking a national icon and 5000 blameless people are losing their beliefs and livelihoods. I think worrying about a few words here or there is frankly, neither here nor there! Although the posts of mine he deleted are a totally different matter
More serious matters:
I naively had made a lot of money and bought a dead business. It was a business I knew nothing about and required an enormous amount of skill to make work.
Not surprisingly I nearly went broke (through ego mainly) but 'I' resurrected it and I will share with you how I did it.
This was a high end thing - much like QF. If you got customers you could charge the earth, but they had to be satisfied they got value for money when they spent. Using QF as an example I poured literally millions into tarting up the Lounges and making sure the carpets on the aero bridges gave everyone a nice fuzzy feeling inside. The problem was I knew F@@k all about aeroplanes. But what I knew about - my cosseted 1st class understanding of airlines - I did to the best of my ability.
Unfortunately, my customers and the national press didn't care about room renovations and nice carpets, they cared about getting to where they wanted to go on my aeroplanes, safely whilst also enjoying a great experience on board. The point is, all the renovating work was irrelevant if I couldn't make the primary experience (getting from A-B as they believed they had paid for) good enough to mix it with the competition!
The one thing I did that was smart (that just before I went bankrupt)was to shut the thing down and offer support (financial and otherwise) to someone who actually knew about airlines from outside the cosseted world of 1st Class Lounges.
By the grace of god (and I am not religious in any way) I had a Steve Purvinas type character approach me who couldn't believe his luck in finding someone like me who wanted to pour (at that stage a little ) money into his dream.
I know anyone reading this would find it very hard to believe, but it actually turned out that Steve knew what he was doing and not only rescued a fairly famous brand but also created a business that people who paid the real dollars were prepared to believe in again. All it took was a relative (to the VAST amounts I lost) pittance in financial support, but considerable moral support ('Mate - I won't let you fail - we are in this together') to get it back on the road.
And that story is why that revolting imbecile Joyce and equally incompetent Clifford make me now physically wretch when I see them.
Even I know I could do a waaaay better job than they, and I reckon I could do it inside 6 months. And I'd be prepared to do it for free. I'm not joking, I would guarantee results (real ones) in that time frame.
They are absolutely, totally, incomparably incompetent and worse, they have your money, livelihoods and the taxpayers money to throw away. And after yet another 'grilling' by those interviewing experts (our learned Senators - whose skills in the field are what, exactly?) can someone explain to me why they will not just continue throwing money away like it's not theirs? Because that is exactly what they are doing! They have nothing to lose - their bonuses will keep increasing because it is always the dollars fault, or staff or the carbon tax.
To run any business, you need skin in the game or the pain is someone else's. Why are these idiots allowed to continue??
One other great comment I will share with you that came from 'my' Steve Purvinas:
'I learnt nothing about business making $80k per week, it was when I grossed 15k with costs at 25k that I learnt the most'
The man that said that to me just had his 30th birthday. I would put him in charge of Qantas any day over the total clowns that are wrecking the place now.
FWIW I would be in favour of all staff everywhere downing tools until anyone from divisional/operational management up resigned. This is a train wreck that will go on until it hits something. The guys in charge have nothing to lose so it will go on and on and on and on and on and it will be everyone else's fault except their own.....
I could not be more disgusted.
More serious matters:
I naively had made a lot of money and bought a dead business. It was a business I knew nothing about and required an enormous amount of skill to make work.
Not surprisingly I nearly went broke (through ego mainly) but 'I' resurrected it and I will share with you how I did it.
This was a high end thing - much like QF. If you got customers you could charge the earth, but they had to be satisfied they got value for money when they spent. Using QF as an example I poured literally millions into tarting up the Lounges and making sure the carpets on the aero bridges gave everyone a nice fuzzy feeling inside. The problem was I knew F@@k all about aeroplanes. But what I knew about - my cosseted 1st class understanding of airlines - I did to the best of my ability.
Unfortunately, my customers and the national press didn't care about room renovations and nice carpets, they cared about getting to where they wanted to go on my aeroplanes, safely whilst also enjoying a great experience on board. The point is, all the renovating work was irrelevant if I couldn't make the primary experience (getting from A-B as they believed they had paid for) good enough to mix it with the competition!
The one thing I did that was smart (that just before I went bankrupt)was to shut the thing down and offer support (financial and otherwise) to someone who actually knew about airlines from outside the cosseted world of 1st Class Lounges.
By the grace of god (and I am not religious in any way) I had a Steve Purvinas type character approach me who couldn't believe his luck in finding someone like me who wanted to pour (at that stage a little ) money into his dream.
I know anyone reading this would find it very hard to believe, but it actually turned out that Steve knew what he was doing and not only rescued a fairly famous brand but also created a business that people who paid the real dollars were prepared to believe in again. All it took was a relative (to the VAST amounts I lost) pittance in financial support, but considerable moral support ('Mate - I won't let you fail - we are in this together') to get it back on the road.
And that story is why that revolting imbecile Joyce and equally incompetent Clifford make me now physically wretch when I see them.
Even I know I could do a waaaay better job than they, and I reckon I could do it inside 6 months. And I'd be prepared to do it for free. I'm not joking, I would guarantee results (real ones) in that time frame.
They are absolutely, totally, incomparably incompetent and worse, they have your money, livelihoods and the taxpayers money to throw away. And after yet another 'grilling' by those interviewing experts (our learned Senators - whose skills in the field are what, exactly?) can someone explain to me why they will not just continue throwing money away like it's not theirs? Because that is exactly what they are doing! They have nothing to lose - their bonuses will keep increasing because it is always the dollars fault, or staff or the carbon tax.
To run any business, you need skin in the game or the pain is someone else's. Why are these idiots allowed to continue??
One other great comment I will share with you that came from 'my' Steve Purvinas:
'I learnt nothing about business making $80k per week, it was when I grossed 15k with costs at 25k that I learnt the most'
The man that said that to me just had his 30th birthday. I would put him in charge of Qantas any day over the total clowns that are wrecking the place now.
FWIW I would be in favour of all staff everywhere downing tools until anyone from divisional/operational management up resigned. This is a train wreck that will go on until it hits something. The guys in charge have nothing to lose so it will go on and on and on and on and on and it will be everyone else's fault except their own.....
I could not be more disgusted.
Last edited by V-Jet; 14th Mar 2014 at 10:34. Reason: Typo's
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I said the AOC holder was Strambi. Is that wrong? He held it when the fleet was grounded.
All there is another Senate hearing on Tues night over the Sale Act. I am down to appear at 2030. I think that CEO guy has been requested to come as well. I agree there is no point asking him any questions. He just answers whatever he wants and disregards what is asked.
I think the Senators have woken up to this and I suspect they will be putting a series of questions on notice to them. That is written questions that require a written answer (relevant to the question). I can think of 61 I would like asked.
All there is another Senate hearing on Tues night over the Sale Act. I am down to appear at 2030. I think that CEO guy has been requested to come as well. I agree there is no point asking him any questions. He just answers whatever he wants and disregards what is asked.
I think the Senators have woken up to this and I suspect they will be putting a series of questions on notice to them. That is written questions that require a written answer (relevant to the question). I can think of 61 I would like asked.
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I wasn't going to listen to Joyce dribble on so walked out. Did anyone here him say that staff supported the plan or were in favour of the 5000 redundancies?
If so can someone who is listening or watching a replay please write down his words and post them here. It sounds to me like he has misled the Senate. It could be the basis of a very important follow up question such as - You said xy and z, how did you determine that? Can you please provide us that evidence?
If so can someone who is listening or watching a replay please write down his words and post them here. It sounds to me like he has misled the Senate. It could be the basis of a very important follow up question such as - You said xy and z, how did you determine that? Can you please provide us that evidence?
I was violently angry and turned the f&&&&er off, but my mother reinforced my understanding that he said that.
'...and he said the staff were behind him!! I couldn't believe my ears!'
'...and he said the staff were behind him!! I couldn't believe my ears!'
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I wasn't going to listen to Joyce dribble on so walked out. Did anyone here him say that staff supported the plan or were in favour of the 5000 redundancies?
It doesn't do any good to be absent when your opponents are making statements on which you might rely at another time.
Despite the discomfort, you should be present at all times to be cognisant of exactly what was said instead of relying on second hand information.
From my experience, when others are making statements, expect the unexpected, otherwise those that should be held accountable, do not, and come out smelling like roses.
Steve' Ill answer the question for you to save the Senate wasting time.
'Let me just say this. All the really great staff that we value at Qantas are 100% behind everything management do to turn this great iconic brand around. We are not going to back away from the really hard decisions that have to be made and can I also add that we now have the best uniforms in the world to make the difference. If you are in the business or understand it at all, then I know that you will understand what a great step forward that is. Combined with our world leading (insert survey brand here) score and our new fleet renewal program we are on track to make this business the envy of the world. I'm sorry I'm being so brief but what with Aunt Maud with her ingrowing toenail and my laryngitis I'll have to keep it shorter that I would really like. I hope you understand where I am coming from and thank you so much for your questions, as I do value the time it takes out of your day to hear from the horses mouth about the issues this business faces in really difficult circumstances. I can only assure you all that we are absolutely doing our best, and believe me, all the staff are completely behind the management team and the incredibly difficult tasks they are expected to perform... '
Aeromed: Give Steve a break. I doubt he has had a decent nights sleep in the last 6 months. He will get the transcript, it will be available - he didn't need to be there in person. IMHO.
'Let me just say this. All the really great staff that we value at Qantas are 100% behind everything management do to turn this great iconic brand around. We are not going to back away from the really hard decisions that have to be made and can I also add that we now have the best uniforms in the world to make the difference. If you are in the business or understand it at all, then I know that you will understand what a great step forward that is. Combined with our world leading (insert survey brand here) score and our new fleet renewal program we are on track to make this business the envy of the world. I'm sorry I'm being so brief but what with Aunt Maud with her ingrowing toenail and my laryngitis I'll have to keep it shorter that I would really like. I hope you understand where I am coming from and thank you so much for your questions, as I do value the time it takes out of your day to hear from the horses mouth about the issues this business faces in really difficult circumstances. I can only assure you all that we are absolutely doing our best, and believe me, all the staff are completely behind the management team and the incredibly difficult tasks they are expected to perform... '
Aeromed: Give Steve a break. I doubt he has had a decent nights sleep in the last 6 months. He will get the transcript, it will be available - he didn't need to be there in person. IMHO.
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Thnx for the advice but you have no idea the amount of time I have put in as prep for our submission and how completely knackered I was after speaking. I had been away since Sunday night and not seen my kids until a couple of hours ago. My choice was to listen to that clown or try and get a flight home. I chose the latter.
Instead of advice on how I could do my job better, I would prefer just a little help by someone posting the comment made about staff supporting the Qantas plan. I don't think that is too much to ask.
Instead of advice on how I could do my job better, I would prefer just a little help by someone posting the comment made about staff supporting the Qantas plan. I don't think that is too much to ask.
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I heard the comments that the staff were behind him, and commented to Mrs C that he must be delusional.
Steve, ABC iView is your friend. You can watch it yourself.
Steve, ABC iView is your friend. You can watch it yourself.