MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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To Ratpoison:
Sorry, what's your point?
Do you pay more than you have to when it comes to telephone, gas, electricity or petrol?
A lot of criticism of management here which is ironic given your solution is to increase airfares.
Underlying problem is QA airfares are already too expensive. Especially when you can fly to same destination at a similar time and pay less.
This problem isn't going to sort itself out until current QA workforce realise that good old days are over. Customers are already comparing QA to ME & Asian airlines. They're cheaper, offer comparable cabin service and (sorry to say) have similar safety and maintenance records. Therefore, to trade out of this position QA need to reduce costs and airfares.
Best way of achieving this is for all staff to reduce wages (more to the point - allowances, penalties & constant threat of industrial action).
This is a controversial point but here goes, current union leadership don't seem to want to protect long term employment. I make this assumption as I cannot think of 1 unionized occupation (not including government) in this country whose future is secure. It begs the question why would one continue paying union fees when the actions of your leadership are increasing the chances of redundancy.
Thanks.
Sorry, what's your point?
Do you pay more than you have to when it comes to telephone, gas, electricity or petrol?
A lot of criticism of management here which is ironic given your solution is to increase airfares.
Underlying problem is QA airfares are already too expensive. Especially when you can fly to same destination at a similar time and pay less.
This problem isn't going to sort itself out until current QA workforce realise that good old days are over. Customers are already comparing QA to ME & Asian airlines. They're cheaper, offer comparable cabin service and (sorry to say) have similar safety and maintenance records. Therefore, to trade out of this position QA need to reduce costs and airfares.
Best way of achieving this is for all staff to reduce wages (more to the point - allowances, penalties & constant threat of industrial action).
This is a controversial point but here goes, current union leadership don't seem to want to protect long term employment. I make this assumption as I cannot think of 1 unionized occupation (not including government) in this country whose future is secure. It begs the question why would one continue paying union fees when the actions of your leadership are increasing the chances of redundancy.
Thanks.
Last edited by Ric_god; 12th Mar 2014 at 13:31. Reason: Include username of original post.
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This is a controversial point but here goes, current union leadership don't seem to want to protect long term employment. I make this assumption as I cannot think of 1 unionized occupation (not including government) in this country whose future is secure. It begs the question why would one continue paying union fees when the actions of your leadership are increasing the chances of redundancy.
I seem to remember Alan grounding the fleet at an enormous expense to the business after months of no negotiations with the unions. The media demonised all of the unions involved, and then Qantas negotiated and gave the unions most of what they were asking for. Had management turned up to the enterprise agreement meetings and negotiated rather than stonewalling, and used their time to run the business as they should, things would be very different today.
Ric_god, your comment shows just how effective Qantas's and the governments campaign against the unions in the media has been. At the end of the day, the union is the workers as a group, and if you think they all want to do themselves out of a job, you are kidding yourself.
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Maybe Andrew David didn't fit the nepotism mould, ex mate or ex QF buddy of JB, hence got the flick (or walked)? Having met him a couple of times, I found him the friendliest most approachable Manager I've ever met, you could do well worse.
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So what can the Board do without further frightening the horses = share price and more importantly further demoralizing the staff.
Changing horses on the run is more likely to result in an even bigger train smash.
OR
Keep Joist in the traces and force him to fix his frck ups under riding instructions from the Board who represent the owners.
There is of course only 2 possible results.
He finally gets it and fixes it, by harnessing the huge depth of goodwill the staff and market have towards the QF brand.
Or the Board eventually
falls into the hands of Singo and his mates, which may not be such a bad thing.
Virgin and QF need each other to keep the market stimulated.
Changing horses on the run is more likely to result in an even bigger train smash.
OR
Keep Joist in the traces and force him to fix his frck ups under riding instructions from the Board who represent the owners.
There is of course only 2 possible results.
He finally gets it and fixes it, by harnessing the huge depth of goodwill the staff and market have towards the QF brand.
Or the Board eventually
falls into the hands of Singo and his mates, which may not be such a bad thing.
Virgin and QF need each other to keep the market stimulated.
I received this email from a good friend in the industry in response to the AFR Clifford interview above.. I felt it was good enough to share on here (with permission from the writer.)
Hi Tim,
Finally, I have a coherent working thesis in my mind for the events of the last couple of months.
In a nutshell, AJ needs to kill Virgin.
Why? The 110 A320's to be delivered by 2020.
Asia hasn't worked, they are still committed to the A/C, so the only option is to deploy them somewhere else (or take a huge hit on crystallizing non-delivery losses). Where to deploy them? Simple, domestically.
This is why they wanted the debt guarantee, and the wage freeze. This enables him to sustain the capacity war as a Virgin killer.. He has also said they will add 4~6% capacity this year, and fares are already ridiculously low and falling.
The only logic that make sense is this is not just about hurting your competitor, but eliminating him. This will give him 100% in the short run, and allow delivery of almost all aircraft without penalty.
Basically, it is his last throw of the dice, almost a binary outcome, where because of the A320 orders, Virgin has to die in order for QF to survive. Unless the capacity war kills Qantas first.
Finally, I have a coherent working thesis in my mind for the events of the last couple of months.
In a nutshell, AJ needs to kill Virgin.
Why? The 110 A320's to be delivered by 2020.
Asia hasn't worked, they are still committed to the A/C, so the only option is to deploy them somewhere else (or take a huge hit on crystallizing non-delivery losses). Where to deploy them? Simple, domestically.
This is why they wanted the debt guarantee, and the wage freeze. This enables him to sustain the capacity war as a Virgin killer.. He has also said they will add 4~6% capacity this year, and fares are already ridiculously low and falling.
The only logic that make sense is this is not just about hurting your competitor, but eliminating him. This will give him 100% in the short run, and allow delivery of almost all aircraft without penalty.
Basically, it is his last throw of the dice, almost a binary outcome, where because of the A320 orders, Virgin has to die in order for QF to survive. Unless the capacity war kills Qantas first.
As I see it, the Qantas domestic fleet is relatively young, so I don't see the need for it to be changed for a new Airbus fleet which would be in J* configurations yes / no???
Finally, if AJ was serious about transforming Q Int, couldn't he rearrange the Airbus orders for some A330/50s as a quick fix to replacing airframes urgently required for International to expand again?
Surely AJ should be focused on all of the Qantas group and not his ego war with Virgin and lovechild J*?
It wouldn't be he first time a CEO has ambushed a Board with this sort of result hoping to the end it would all work out at the end.
http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...tors/global/en
Meanwhile, in other parts of the world things are looking up
Global airlines on profit high
.
.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 13th Mar 2014 at 00:53. Reason: add link
Gaunty:
Off the beam a little.
1. "Surprising" a Board, let alone a Chairman, is grounds for immediate termination of a CEO. This is something that you never, ever, do. The Boards motto is always "no surprises" because if they get surprised it implies straight away that the Directors have not been doing their jobs diligently, informing themselves of the business.
2. A CEO "Ambushing" the board of a public company is also a career terminating move. A Managing Director might try it - if he has the necessary shareholding behind him but as a general rule you are asking for a lawsuit. A CEO of a private company who is a rainmaker generating profits, thats a different matter. Again the Directors of a public company are required to be diligent in knowing and understanding the business, or else.
3. The Board doesn't get to issue "riding instructions" to anyone. Thats not its function at all. The Boards job is to hire and fire the CEO. The CEO issues instructions. The Board either accepts his strategy or fires him.
4. Joyce cannot, by definition, "fix" Qantas, he is part of the problem, not the solution and so is the Board. To put that another way, the people that got Qantas to this low point are not the people who an lead Qantas out of it.
5, Singleton and the APA Boyze getting control of Qantas???? Mate! Think of the money was can make! The first thing we can do is shake down every tourism region in the country and every State government. Do you know what happened to Sunshine Coast land values when QF terminated its services and replaced them with Jetstar?
Then of course we can asset strip, restructure and refloat the business with a complete new marketing plan and competent management instead of the current clowns.
Qantas can make a very, very nice return on investment for a new owner - provided the current bunch of managers deliver it at a low enough purchase price.
I woudn't hang him on the strength of that interview.
He is doing what a Chairman should do. Standing back and watching the big picture and casting around the business world at large for feedback.
Maybe a chat With the CEO every cuppla weeks worked in the mining business, where it takes that long between mine and furnace but the aviation world works in real time.
I'm surprised that he and maybe Joist , were surprised at the size of the loss but it is possible that it was, a surprise to Clifford at least. Maybe not that there would be a loss, but the size of it.
It wouldn't be he first time a CEO has ambushed a Board with this sort of result hoping to the end it would all work out at the end.
So what can the Board do without further frightening the horses = share price and more importantly further demoralizing the staff.
Changing horses on the run is more likely to result in an even bigger train smash.
OR
Keep Joist in the traces and force him to fix his frck ups under riding instructions from the Board who represent the owners.
There is of course only 2 possible results.
He finally gets it and fixes it, by harnessing the huge depth of goodwill the staff and market have towards the QF brand.
Or the Board eventually
falls into the hands of Singo and his mates, which may not be such a bad thing.
Virgin and QF need each other to keep the market stimulated. There are plenty of really smart people in Virgin who could step into Borghetti's shoes.
One wonders how much and on what terms it would take Singo and his mates to get Borghetti to head up QF.
Just sayin.
He is doing what a Chairman should do. Standing back and watching the big picture and casting around the business world at large for feedback.
Maybe a chat With the CEO every cuppla weeks worked in the mining business, where it takes that long between mine and furnace but the aviation world works in real time.
I'm surprised that he and maybe Joist , were surprised at the size of the loss but it is possible that it was, a surprise to Clifford at least. Maybe not that there would be a loss, but the size of it.
It wouldn't be he first time a CEO has ambushed a Board with this sort of result hoping to the end it would all work out at the end.
So what can the Board do without further frightening the horses = share price and more importantly further demoralizing the staff.
Changing horses on the run is more likely to result in an even bigger train smash.
OR
Keep Joist in the traces and force him to fix his frck ups under riding instructions from the Board who represent the owners.
There is of course only 2 possible results.
He finally gets it and fixes it, by harnessing the huge depth of goodwill the staff and market have towards the QF brand.
Or the Board eventually
falls into the hands of Singo and his mates, which may not be such a bad thing.
Virgin and QF need each other to keep the market stimulated. There are plenty of really smart people in Virgin who could step into Borghetti's shoes.
One wonders how much and on what terms it would take Singo and his mates to get Borghetti to head up QF.
Just sayin.
1. "Surprising" a Board, let alone a Chairman, is grounds for immediate termination of a CEO. This is something that you never, ever, do. The Boards motto is always "no surprises" because if they get surprised it implies straight away that the Directors have not been doing their jobs diligently, informing themselves of the business.
2. A CEO "Ambushing" the board of a public company is also a career terminating move. A Managing Director might try it - if he has the necessary shareholding behind him but as a general rule you are asking for a lawsuit. A CEO of a private company who is a rainmaker generating profits, thats a different matter. Again the Directors of a public company are required to be diligent in knowing and understanding the business, or else.
3. The Board doesn't get to issue "riding instructions" to anyone. Thats not its function at all. The Boards job is to hire and fire the CEO. The CEO issues instructions. The Board either accepts his strategy or fires him.
4. Joyce cannot, by definition, "fix" Qantas, he is part of the problem, not the solution and so is the Board. To put that another way, the people that got Qantas to this low point are not the people who an lead Qantas out of it.
5, Singleton and the APA Boyze getting control of Qantas???? Mate! Think of the money was can make! The first thing we can do is shake down every tourism region in the country and every State government. Do you know what happened to Sunshine Coast land values when QF terminated its services and replaced them with Jetstar?
Then of course we can asset strip, restructure and refloat the business with a complete new marketing plan and competent management instead of the current clowns.
Qantas can make a very, very nice return on investment for a new owner - provided the current bunch of managers deliver it at a low enough purchase price.
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TIMA9X
"The Qantas fleet is relatively young" lol.
Still running around with ancient 767s - albeit will be partially replaced by some of the A330s coming back from JQ but they are mostly 747 replacements.
Even on the golden triangle the original post 9/11 738s that got taken from AA are now 12 years old (and there were lots delivered in 2002 and 2003) - would not be surprised to see A320s used to replace these over the next few years.
"The Qantas fleet is relatively young" lol.
Still running around with ancient 767s - albeit will be partially replaced by some of the A330s coming back from JQ but they are mostly 747 replacements.
Even on the golden triangle the original post 9/11 738s that got taken from AA are now 12 years old (and there were lots delivered in 2002 and 2003) - would not be surprised to see A320s used to replace these over the next few years.
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"The Qantas fleet is relatively young" lol.
anyway the weaker dollar will make aircraft purchases more expensive, and it won't save us..
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-e...313-34omp.html
Why does anyone listen to this clown? He knows nothing about what he is talking about. How's Qantas going Mr Clifford? May want to check out Cathay and Air New Zealand's results...
The results of the Joyce management team......
Cathay Pacific?s annual profit triples despite dip in cargo revenue | TODAYonline
Air New Zealand's better balance in international markets drives earnings growth, with more to come | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
No Cookies | The Courier-Mail
Qantas ......
Good on ya Leigh! Blame everyone else......Great effort.
Cathay Pacific?s annual profit triples despite dip in cargo revenue | TODAYonline
Fuel costs, which accounted for 39 per cent of operating costs, fell 5.8 per cent to HK$38.13 billion last year on lower oil prices
Driving Air NZ's performance was a lower fuel bill (down 9.6%), resulting from reduced flying but mostly due to lower prices and improving fleet efficiencies
Qantas ......
• Underlying fuel costs1 excluding FX impact: $2.3 billion, up 3%
Good on ya Leigh! Blame everyone else......Great effort.
I see Peter Gregg is looking for a job.
. Yeah I know, you don't want him back but......he got a $9m payout from Leighton's so he has time and $$$$'s now to get serious with his old mates Dixon, Singo etc.
Scary thought
. Yeah I know, you don't want him back but......he got a $9m payout from Leighton's so he has time and $$$$'s now to get serious with his old mates Dixon, Singo etc.Scary thought
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For those interested. The ALAEA has submitted an in depth paper for discussion at tomorrow's Senate hearing. We've included damning internal reports about shoddy offshore maintenance and a nice little copy of an offshore maintenance invoice for a Jetstar aircraft billed directly to Qantas Airways Limited.
You can read it here.
Submissions ? Parliament of Australia
If you couldn't be bothered that's fine. We have made the following recommendation that readers may find interesting -
The Australian Government should reject any request from Qantas for financial assistance or changes to the Qantas Sale Act until such time that a clear strategy has been put in place by a new CEO, Chairperson and Board that includes at least two persons with the following experience –
A Commercial Pilot who has a minimum of 10 years in a command position;
An Aircraft Engineer who has been Licenced for a minimum of 10 years;
A Flight Attendant with a minimum 20 years’ experience;
A person who has a minimum 20 years’ experience working as a Ramp employee;
A person who has a minimum 20 years’ experience working in Airline Customer service.
You can read it here.
Submissions ? Parliament of Australia
If you couldn't be bothered that's fine. We have made the following recommendation that readers may find interesting -
The Australian Government should reject any request from Qantas for financial assistance or changes to the Qantas Sale Act until such time that a clear strategy has been put in place by a new CEO, Chairperson and Board that includes at least two persons with the following experience –
A Commercial Pilot who has a minimum of 10 years in a command position;
An Aircraft Engineer who has been Licenced for a minimum of 10 years;
A Flight Attendant with a minimum 20 years’ experience;
A person who has a minimum 20 years’ experience working as a Ramp employee;
A person who has a minimum 20 years’ experience working in Airline Customer service.
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Originally Posted by quote73to91
I see Peter Gregg is looking for a job.. Yeah I know, you don't want him back but......he got a $9m payout from Leighton's so he has time and $$$$'s now to get serious with his old mates Dixon, Singo etc.
Scary thought
Scary thought
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Steve,
Your efforts and those countless others involved in the cause for exposure to outright corruption, exploitation, payola and blatant bloody immorality is much appreciated by many.
The following quote is for the pole climbers and the immoral in search of financial gratification, greed and managerial predilection:
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
—Samuel Adams
Your efforts and those countless others involved in the cause for exposure to outright corruption, exploitation, payola and blatant bloody immorality is much appreciated by many.
The following quote is for the pole climbers and the immoral in search of financial gratification, greed and managerial predilection:
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
—Samuel Adams