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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 28th Nov 2013, 14:48
  #201 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: aviation heaven, australia
Posts: 213
It really breaks my heart that the airline I aspired to work for and eventually did is finished. Alan Joyce and his board of clowns have destroyed the place. Now only to blame a government policy because Borgetti and Virgin are kicking his ass.

At the same time I don't think government should have a say on who owns what of the company. Really, would you want them telling you what car you have to buy? If they really need it to be Australian owned then they should own 51%.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 14:50
  #202 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: asia
Posts: 184
93 years of iconic history?

Come off it or more correctly, get your hand off it.

QF has existed by operating under a sheltered work shop system for many,many decades. They always insured that "I'm all right ,Jack cause I work for the Guvment". Government protection made poor management no hindrance and let us not forget that Qantas did play its part in the Dispute and in the demise of Ansett . If VA were in a difficult position, QF would again plunge the sword in, without hesitation.

What does QF actually do for Australia that necessitates it to be saved by the government? Does it fly locally made aircraft, maintain aircraft locally and exclusively use Australian fuel? Nope.
Yes it employs people but, so would whatever company replaces it.

If it makes a profit remember a good deal goes offshore now.
It does however ask Australians to fly in generally old and poorly maintained aircraft, put up with second rate service and cr.p food. You are also requested to pay top prices for that.
I say that the Australian public have been saving QF, via their hip pocket, for many years.

Unfortunately for QF, the vultures are circling and people start talking about iconic history and "national Carrier" or "national pride".
Tough, the time has come!

Saw this coming when they first started Jet*
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 18:09
  #203 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Spot on SOPS, JB not getting the QF job was the best thing that ever happened to Virgin.

Word is the man works 6.5 days a week and hasn't had a day off since he joined just under 4 years ago. He's up at 3am writing back directly to employees.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 18:35
  #204 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: aviation heaven, australia
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Well Said IT. word perfect.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 21:14
  #205 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Let's not forget Dixon, Singleton and Carnegie who are most likely watching with great interest.

3 guys who would be happy to buy in (again) and provide the people who want Australia own, 3 Australians as major investors. Make that 4, Packer would love to have more flights from Asia into Australia for a visit to Crown Casino's.

2 years ago this week - Dixon was reported as saying:
we decided to let it go at this stage

FORMER Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has revealed he and adman John Singleton were among a group of wealthy investors who worked on taking a strategic stake in the airline three months ago, but shelved their plans because of concerns about global instability.

For the first time publicly confirming rumours that have swirled for months, Mr Dixon said a group backed by himself, Mr Singleton and investment banker Mark Carnegie and advised by a global investment bank took a "serious look" at Qantas as its share price slumped to an all-time low.

"All we did was have a look at it," Mr Dixon told The Weekend Australian. "And we looked at it in a serious way. We had some very top people looking at it and had a lot of people interested. But there are a lot of reasons why we decided to let it go at this stage." The aviation business owned by Mr Dixon, Mr Singleton and Mr Carnegie - Global Aviation Asset Management - and a group of wealthy private investors was looking to seize a strategic stake in the airline as an investment opportunity.
- See more at: Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 21:51
  #206 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In a House on earth
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Do not put D***n on a high pedestal he wanted Qantas gone and pocket millions for himself.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 22:25
  #207 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Al's Diner
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Interesting comment by Truss:

Federal Transport Minister Warren Truss said Qantas could not expect the "government to bankroll their ambitions to have a greater market share . . . or for their desire to open new airlines in other parts of the world".

Read more: Qantas wants federal debt guarantee
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 22:27
  #208 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Originally Posted by empire4 View Post
Now only to blame a government policy because Borgetti and Virgin are kicking his ass.
I despise Joyce as much as the next bloke, but I've got to ask - by what measure is his ass getting kicked? Profits? On time performance? Load factors? Yields?

Both airlines are predicted to make a loss this year. Qantas is hurting and so are Virgin but they now have deep pockets to withstand those losses for longer.

It's pretty simple...if QF had anyone else in charge we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 22:36
  #209 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
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It's alright, apparently the Sales Act has a hidden clause for airspace priority.

You Qantas blokes are dumb as; accepting holding into Brisbane when you could use your priority status. No wonder the company is going bust!

Current laws require there be a majority Australian shareholding in Qantas as part of a deal which gives the national carrier privileges including air space priority.
read more
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 22:40
  #210 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Seems that finally it has been admitted what many have been suggesting here for a very long time...he is unable to actually run the airline. So what do the Board do now save for change their nappies given the state of the company??

This is not a case of being unable to operate in an unfair environment but a consequence of decisions made over many years and a totally inept Board who must surely be waiting for some sort of enquiry as to why their own MD has called for help. For their sake I hope they do not report a large financial loss or the questions will just keep coming, particularly as some have already pointed out the statements made in the past.

JB must be really enjoying this being 10-0 down and now having the upper hand because of his skill in steering the team forward.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 23:12
  #211 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Yeah but if you talk to one of the 38 chief pilots Alan's created, the net promoter score and on time performance has never been better.
Happy days!
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 00:27
  #212 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Alan Joyce has sent Qantas broke. I can't work out why he hasn't resigned yet.
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 00:37
  #213 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Putting aside the folly that is J* Asia, simply put Joyce abjectly failed to identify the changing business conditions and emerging threat of Virgin under the stewardship of JB.

He alone is responsible for the over capacity in the market. It is a direct result of his inflexible 65% line in the sand.

Virgin was organically increasing market share by improving its product (ably assisted by Joyce and Clifford's industrial relations strategy)and as a result Joyce had to put 2 planes in the air for every one that Borghetti added, so he could claim to be maintaining his 65%, whether demand was there or not.

The reality of a duopoly that provides a similar product is that most likely the market share will fluctuate and eventually stabilise around the 50% level, as was the case in Oz prior to deregulation. If Joyce had been willing to accept that as being a reasonable outcome of having a genuine competitor back in the market ( rather than trying win a war of attrition) and adjusted capacity accordingly, yields would have held up and he would not find himself in the position he is now in. Blindly assuming that because he was the 800lb gorilla he could dictate to the market what his share should be shows the type of hubris that has ruined many a good company.

I don't want to see Qantas fail, but any rescue package has to come with Joyce and Clifford resignation attached.
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 00:50
  #214 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Now AJ wants a G tee on debt from Gov and his pay .
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 00:52
  #215 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Finally it's coming home to roost!
The Irish gits' incompetence is finally front and centre.

Why should this government save the bacon of this (QF)management, which has trashed it?

Senator Xenophon was scathing of the “cannibalisation” of Qantas by its offshoot Jetstar, in particular “the apparent black hole that is Jetstar’s Asian experiment”.

I agree with the above comments re not wanting the White Rat to fail but I certainly can not justify under any grounds, why the Tax payer should bail out the confrontational, deceptive and incompetent heads of management.
The arrogance is out of control! As an example, just two nights ago when opening up a further maintenance facility in BN, he was quoted as saying that the VA outside investment was like a soccer game - where QF are 10-0 ahead and they bring 3 more teams on.... Joyce, mate... you have never been 10 nil up! QF in the olden days yes maybe but now, that it aint... because of you.
Joyce and Cliffords resignations should be a given already, on the basis that JB outplayed them on the chess board to this point and they simply have no answer except bitching to the umpire. Well hopefully the umpire looks into what you've been doing all these years.
Happy landings

Last edited by Chocks Away; 29th Nov 2013 at 01:07.
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 00:53
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Vorsicht,

Bloody well said.
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 01:09
  #217 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Age: 54
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Do you know where in the Sales Act this is ? Would love to read what it says but can't find any reference in the pages and pages of legal gobbledygook.
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 01:15
  #218 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Alan Joyce has sent Qantas broke. I can't work out why he hasn't resigned yet.
Resigned???

It shouldn't be up to him! Why hasn't he been sacked, tarred and feathered!

Amazing triumph of incompetence.
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 01:23
  #219 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 49
Staff?

The thing that gets me is that he wants the staff to support him, when he shut down the airline when there were no restrictions, stop-work meetings, no strikes...nothing, he just decided to do it...
Any idiot staff who support the clown need their head read....Government bailout?, you have to be kidding... if QF is in such a bad way why doesn't the Board Sell Jetstar?
Its supposedly an Amazing business!
Why not sell it and use the Capital for QF domestic and International?
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 01:47
  #220 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 88
Where are the shareholders

It amazes me that shareholders can sit back and see the value trashed, and not put their hand up. The institutions that most probably own the bulk of the shares ought to be taken to task. As for Joyce complaining about the $350m for the Virgin offer, how much did HE lose by shutting the airline down? Did I hear around $200m ?
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