Problems at Brindabella?
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There would be Wal if operators quoted based on paying their employees award wages, fixed & variable costs based on a regulator who's legislated responsibility is to foster aviation. 
.................actually the reverse JR if the operators charged to cover costs & some margin for profit what's left of this ugly industry would die off almost completely as flying is very expensive now even with so much undercutting, I mean who's making squillions here in Oz at the moment anyway with such cheap ridiculous fares?
Hope yr well there JR, see you on the other side
Wmk2
Hope yr well there JR, see you on the other side
Wmk2
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Wal, the regulator plays their part in how much this service costs. It will/would be virtually impossible to make money in most segments of aviation with CASA the way they are.
If a business cannot make a profit after paying it's employees, covering it's fixed & variable costs etc it should not be in business, full stop. Let the industry collapse, it's the only way CASA will be held to account. When they've destroyed it maybe some common sense will come into the equation?
You saw first hand when you got shafted, who benefits from this? If the RFDS pulled up stumps and said to the government 'can't do this anymore, see ya later' then the morons who took it over went the same way, what do you reckon would happen?
I'm good old mate, you won't be talking to me til you do Melbourne-Canberra! Have a good one
If a business cannot make a profit after paying it's employees, covering it's fixed & variable costs etc it should not be in business, full stop. Let the industry collapse, it's the only way CASA will be held to account. When they've destroyed it maybe some common sense will come into the equation?
You saw first hand when you got shafted, who benefits from this? If the RFDS pulled up stumps and said to the government 'can't do this anymore, see ya later' then the morons who took it over went the same way, what do you reckon would happen?
I'm good old mate, you won't be talking to me til you do Melbourne-Canberra! Have a good one
A big challenge for regional services is the cost structure and low volume of pax. The pax complain that they can buy a ticket from TVL to MEL cheaper than TVL to ISA. I wonder why?
The regulatory compliance for little guys pretty much mimics the big guys. Again more big $$$$ to pay.
The regulatory compliance for little guys pretty much mimics the big guys. Again more big $$$$ to pay.
Let the industry collapse, it's the only way CASA will be held to account. When they've destroyed it maybe some common sense will come into the equation?
Just slightly less of a ripple than the car-building industry disappearing today.
Market forces, they'll say.
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Well considering we are coming off a high in a business sense, and even the majors look like having a horror year ahead. This situation may just be a small snapshot of what to expect going forward.
Really if the majors can't make a single dollar profit what hope does the mid tier operator have.
Really if the majors can't make a single dollar profit what hope does the mid tier operator have.
Oh I agree JR re the regulator adding to the cost of flying, they just add to the hopelessness of it all.
Loved yr comments about if a business can't make a profit after all outgoing expenses where addressed then they shouldn't be in business.................... you just described QF & most other Co's along the same lines.
The loss of the AAV contract was all about money as we know JR.
Doubt we'll be heading back to CB anytime soon buddy, that's a high yield destination full of 'hot air' hangeroners whom expect service, something our Co can't even spell!:-)
Wmk2
Loved yr comments about if a business can't make a profit after all outgoing expenses where addressed then they shouldn't be in business.................... you just described QF & most other Co's along the same lines.
The loss of the AAV contract was all about money as we know JR.
Doubt we'll be heading back to CB anytime soon buddy, that's a high yield destination full of 'hot air' hangeroners whom expect service, something our Co can't even spell!:-)
Wmk2
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Well, I don't believe for a minute that Qantas can't pay it's expenses, wages etc. This bull**** has been manufactured over 5 years. The evidence is there to see, fact is it suits all the big players objectives to destroy it and rebuild it.
As far as GA goes, in it's present form, it's a sewer & should be put out of it's misery. If it wasn't for Experimental, flying would not be do-able on my part!
As far as GA goes, in it's present form, it's a sewer & should be put out of it's misery. If it wasn't for Experimental, flying would not be do-able on my part!
Master of the sweeping generalisation, aren't you?
Let's take it somewhere else (this aint about Brindabella), and start here:
As far as GA goes, in it's present form, it's a sewer & should be put out of it's misery.
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The majority of employers in GA pay under award wages. The award wage is below the average wage. The award is not a liveable wage. So how is anybody expected to live on below award wages?
That's the first point you could respond to
That's the first point you could respond to
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The regulatory reform process has taken 20 years & over 200 million dollars, something the kiwis have done in a couple of years and a coupla mil. These so called reforms have had a major impact on GA, who's had to pay for this? We have.
The majority of employers in GA pay under award wages.
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I've had 2 close friends involved in serious safety occurrences, ongoing occurrences with 'major' GA players. One of those companies has gone down, the other is still operating. We all know what this chap does and how he operates, gotta be a bit careful here but if I was having a beer with you you'd agree on the sewer bit.
P.S. I should add, both of these blokes left the industry. One of them had spent ten years building his career, ATPL's, left school at year 10 so went back to night school and did physics, English etc. Paid for all of his endo's, ratings & endorsements, had all the requirements for entry to any airline in Australia. Boom, along comes the cadet ship train (cos there's a pilot shortage apparently). Yep, GA, work hard and the rewards will come
P.S. I should add, both of these blokes left the industry. One of them had spent ten years building his career, ATPL's, left school at year 10 so went back to night school and did physics, English etc. Paid for all of his endo's, ratings & endorsements, had all the requirements for entry to any airline in Australia. Boom, along comes the cadet ship train (cos there's a pilot shortage apparently). Yep, GA, work hard and the rewards will come
Last edited by Jack Ranga; 11th Dec 2013 at 23:33.
Mate:
Sham contracting is illegal.
Paying less than award is illegal.
If your mates are happy to put up with this to get ahead in their career, what else are they willing to do that's illegal?
Getting paid an "apprentice" wage while you are young and learning the ropes is normal. The world doesn't owe you $100k. And if you paid for all your own endorsements and flogged your guts out in GA and never got anywhere, maybe its cos you're a cockhead.
Sham contracting is illegal.
Paying less than award is illegal.
If your mates are happy to put up with this to get ahead in their career, what else are they willing to do that's illegal?
Getting paid an "apprentice" wage while you are young and learning the ropes is normal. The world doesn't owe you $100k. And if you paid for all your own endorsements and flogged your guts out in GA and never got anywhere, maybe its cos you're a cockhead.
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The majority of employers in GA pay under award wages
But if you look at;
The FIFO operators; The business jet operators both private and commercial; Turboprop operators excluding the regional airlines.. (including the likes of RFDS, Cobham etc); The major flights schools (by numbers produced) like CSWAFC, AAPA, AAofA, UNSW, OAA;. Turbine helicopter operators; Helicopter flying schools;
Collectively these employ the majority in GA. Most, if not all, of these pay the award or better!
We should not confuse the few operators who exploit low time pilots, with those that do not hire low time pilots but pay entitlements. Not withstanding many of those that exploit low time pilots are also giving them a start that they would not have gotten elsewhere.
Yes a sweeping statement!
But as this thread was about Brindabella, I do not think there is any suggestion they were not paying award.
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Touching a raw nerve HL? And don't 'mate' me sunshine I'm not your mate.
And he's not a cockhead, pretty good bloke actually. He paid for what you would have paid the same for CPL, ME-CIR etc, he left his job when the rip-off started & his accommodation bills were not being paid, pretty general assumption that you made wasn't it? That he was working for under the award, ya f@ckwit
I'm not your mate.And he's not a cockhead, pretty good bloke actually. He paid for what you would have paid the same for CPL, ME-CIR etc, he left his job when the rip-off started & his accommodation bills were not being paid, pretty general assumption that you made wasn't it? That he was working for under the award, ya f@ckwit