Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review
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A moment in history. Our current DAS is the only one to be refereed by the Senate to the AFP, and opinions are big on the Movement of Privilege by the Senate! What an achievement!!
I hope all of this is included in his LinkedIn profile, only 4 weeks to go and he will be 'on the market'!!
Caveat emptor
Last edited by 004wercras; 31st Jul 2014 at 20:45. Reason: Counting down the days on my calendar! Bye bye Herr Skull
If its true that the military are going to take over again, I'll slash my wrists now. CASA needs someone to go in and clean house with a chainsaw.
A "process queen" or "sensitive and nuanced cultural change" type is going to be eaten alive.
Heads have to roll, fast. Then you need to find simplicators to cut through the miles of legal bull**** and give us something like the FAA/NZ regulations
A "process queen" or "sensitive and nuanced cultural change" type is going to be eaten alive.
Heads have to roll, fast. Then you need to find simplicators to cut through the miles of legal bull**** and give us something like the FAA/NZ regulations
AHIA weigh in.
Flawed safety laws must be stalled, says helicopter association
ROB RICH Comment
August 01, 2014 12:00AM
AUSTRALIAN Helicopter Industry Association president Peter Crook has written to Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss to request Civil Aviation Safety Regulation Part 61 not be implemented on September 1, just 20 working days from now.
CASR Part 61 (Flight Crew Licensing) became law on February 14 last year with a start date of December 4 that year and a four-year transition period ending on December 3, 2017. However, little could be done until the Manual of Standards (MoS) was released in June last year with a comment *period of 11 weeks.
It was quickly noted that helicopter operators would suffer more than their aeroplane cousins as the need to include instrument familiarisation training and integrated and non-integrated *courses (the former not yet designed) would be an expensive compliance exercise. Furthermore, the AHIA working group struggled with the need to make the MoS line up with the parent instrument (regulation). Many of these issues are still a “work in progress”.
Prior to the December deadline, the AHIA briefed senator David Fawcett and indicated CASA was not yet ready to introduce the flight crew licensing rules, despite claims to the contrary by CASA.
As a result, CASR Part 61 was deferred to September 1. However, a number of industry associations requested it be further deferred as the legislation needed to be in the “three-tier format”. The third tier is a guide in plain English. This has not occurred.
An AHIA CASR Part 61 review committee member said the flight testing regime required by the new rules would require a large increase in flight examiners at a time when the industry was already short of qualified testing officers. CASA’s capacity to approve more testing officers is limited. We have been advised that CASA’s intent not to grant its flight operations inspectors flight testing approvals, due to the cost of maintaining an individual’s qualifications, will only exacerbate the problem.
CASA has no implementation plan in this regard and this has the potential to seriously impact the capacity of the industry to function, particularly in the emergency service support, fire and aerial agriculture operations.
The only solution offered by CASA’s officers is the promise of concessions. But if new legislation needs such concessions upon implementation, it is fundamentally flawed. How can operators manage our risk if we don’t even know what the concessions are? Those concessions should be published well in advance so the industry can scrutinise them.
The industry also refutes CASA claims that the changes are “like-for-like’’ and only a restructure. That is not true. An example is the requirement for firefighting pilots to hold a firefighting rating. No such requirement currently exists and it is an additional operational and financial burden on the industry, and not a restructure.
Some of the syllabus items in the MoS encourage unsafe practices and in some instances are technically incorrect.
For individuals and organisations to manage their risk, concessions will also have to be given so these unsafe practices can be removed as a requirement of a *rating being issued. An example is the potential for serious accidents when people attempt to demonstrate and practise a rotor-blade stall.
Anecdotal evidence indicates that very few people understand the content and the impact of these changes. This supports the argument that the proposed legislative elements are badly written and too complex.
One senior instructor said: “Now imagine a student pilot preparing for an air law examination based on the new regulations. If nobody understands them, then who can teach them? What hope do you have of passing?”
Rob Rich is the secretary of the Australian Helicopter Industry Association.
Also reported on by Oz Flying..
:AHIA Moves to Stall Part 61
Hmm...the minuscule IN TRAY must be almost overflowing right about now...
MTF..
ROB RICH Comment
August 01, 2014 12:00AM
AUSTRALIAN Helicopter Industry Association president Peter Crook has written to Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss to request Civil Aviation Safety Regulation Part 61 not be implemented on September 1, just 20 working days from now.
CASR Part 61 (Flight Crew Licensing) became law on February 14 last year with a start date of December 4 that year and a four-year transition period ending on December 3, 2017. However, little could be done until the Manual of Standards (MoS) was released in June last year with a comment *period of 11 weeks.
It was quickly noted that helicopter operators would suffer more than their aeroplane cousins as the need to include instrument familiarisation training and integrated and non-integrated *courses (the former not yet designed) would be an expensive compliance exercise. Furthermore, the AHIA working group struggled with the need to make the MoS line up with the parent instrument (regulation). Many of these issues are still a “work in progress”.
Prior to the December deadline, the AHIA briefed senator David Fawcett and indicated CASA was not yet ready to introduce the flight crew licensing rules, despite claims to the contrary by CASA.
As a result, CASR Part 61 was deferred to September 1. However, a number of industry associations requested it be further deferred as the legislation needed to be in the “three-tier format”. The third tier is a guide in plain English. This has not occurred.
An AHIA CASR Part 61 review committee member said the flight testing regime required by the new rules would require a large increase in flight examiners at a time when the industry was already short of qualified testing officers. CASA’s capacity to approve more testing officers is limited. We have been advised that CASA’s intent not to grant its flight operations inspectors flight testing approvals, due to the cost of maintaining an individual’s qualifications, will only exacerbate the problem.
CASA has no implementation plan in this regard and this has the potential to seriously impact the capacity of the industry to function, particularly in the emergency service support, fire and aerial agriculture operations.
The only solution offered by CASA’s officers is the promise of concessions. But if new legislation needs such concessions upon implementation, it is fundamentally flawed. How can operators manage our risk if we don’t even know what the concessions are? Those concessions should be published well in advance so the industry can scrutinise them.
The industry also refutes CASA claims that the changes are “like-for-like’’ and only a restructure. That is not true. An example is the requirement for firefighting pilots to hold a firefighting rating. No such requirement currently exists and it is an additional operational and financial burden on the industry, and not a restructure.
Some of the syllabus items in the MoS encourage unsafe practices and in some instances are technically incorrect.
For individuals and organisations to manage their risk, concessions will also have to be given so these unsafe practices can be removed as a requirement of a *rating being issued. An example is the potential for serious accidents when people attempt to demonstrate and practise a rotor-blade stall.
Anecdotal evidence indicates that very few people understand the content and the impact of these changes. This supports the argument that the proposed legislative elements are badly written and too complex.
One senior instructor said: “Now imagine a student pilot preparing for an air law examination based on the new regulations. If nobody understands them, then who can teach them? What hope do you have of passing?”
Rob Rich is the secretary of the Australian Helicopter Industry Association.
Dear Minister,
The initiative for the Aviation Safety Regulation Review was applauded by the Aviation Industry. The release of the report was welcomed by the Industry and by-in-large accepted as read. The industry was asked for comment which has been provided. Since the deadline for comment, the silence has been deafening.
I personally have been in the Aviation Industry, as a pilot, company co-owner, manager, sales representative for 51 years. Never in this time have I seen such turmoil and mistrust in the Regulator.
As President of the Australian Helicopter Industry Association, I am very concerned with the difficulties our CASR Part 61 Regulatory Review Team, and others, are having with understanding the muted changes to this Regulation. The introduction of a completely new licensing system together with new training syllabuses, with no perceived safety benefits, but additional cost, in the current “Two Tier” format is not understood. Legislation needs to be in the “Three Tier” format, in plain English and not in the Criminal Code format which is understood by Judges but not Aviators.
As this third tier has not yet been introduced we, the Australian Helicopter Industry, respectfully request the introduction of CASR Part 61 be further delayed to allow time for Industry to negotiate the proposed changes further with CASA. Why introduce a Regulation which will require concessions to operate until the Regulation is in the proper format, should it not be fixed prior to introduction on 1 September 2014?
Regards
Peter Crook
President
Australian Helicopter Industry Association
Urgent Request to Defer CASR Part 61
The initiative for the Aviation Safety Regulation Review was applauded by the Aviation Industry. The release of the report was welcomed by the Industry and by-in-large accepted as read. The industry was asked for comment which has been provided. Since the deadline for comment, the silence has been deafening.
I personally have been in the Aviation Industry, as a pilot, company co-owner, manager, sales representative for 51 years. Never in this time have I seen such turmoil and mistrust in the Regulator.
As President of the Australian Helicopter Industry Association, I am very concerned with the difficulties our CASR Part 61 Regulatory Review Team, and others, are having with understanding the muted changes to this Regulation. The introduction of a completely new licensing system together with new training syllabuses, with no perceived safety benefits, but additional cost, in the current “Two Tier” format is not understood. Legislation needs to be in the “Three Tier” format, in plain English and not in the Criminal Code format which is understood by Judges but not Aviators.
As this third tier has not yet been introduced we, the Australian Helicopter Industry, respectfully request the introduction of CASR Part 61 be further delayed to allow time for Industry to negotiate the proposed changes further with CASA. Why introduce a Regulation which will require concessions to operate until the Regulation is in the proper format, should it not be fixed prior to introduction on 1 September 2014?
Regards
Peter Crook
President
Australian Helicopter Industry Association
:AHIA Moves to Stall Part 61Hmm...the minuscule IN TRAY must be almost overflowing right about now...
MTF..
Last edited by Sarcs; 1st Aug 2014 at 05:28.
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Ben Cook has now gone to Work for Transport Victoria. A gain for them, but still a loss for aviation. A guy that knows the military and commercial side of aviation safety and human factors was allowed to walk out CAsA's door 
Would be nice to see CAsA hold on to the good people, must be a reason for the departures? As halfmanhalfbiscuit pointed out, since 2010 all the good guys have bailed, and continue to bail......
Tick Tock Miniscule, Tick Tock pumpkin head, Tick Tock Chairman Hawke
Would be nice to see CAsA hold on to the good people, must be a reason for the departures? As halfmanhalfbiscuit pointed out, since 2010 all the good guys have bailed, and continue to bail......
Tick Tock Miniscule, Tick Tock pumpkin head, Tick Tock Chairman Hawke
Last edited by 004wercras; 1st Aug 2014 at 11:30.
And for the average person on the street and the media the use of acronyms makes the statement meaningless. What difference will unattributed signs make that 19 fatalities at Lockhart River and two Senate inquiries haven't yet made?
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"eternity" is similarly meaningless but is etched in Sydney history.
Apart from posing nothing as an alternative except Lockhart River, which to the average pedestrian is similarly meaningless, can we assume you don't agree with the sentiment expressed.
Personally I can't see how it hurts anybody except those who take offence, and they know what it means.
Oh, and "Bill Posters". Everybody is out to get him.
Apart from posing nothing as an alternative except Lockhart River, which to the average pedestrian is similarly meaningless, can we assume you don't agree with the sentiment expressed.
Personally I can't see how it hurts anybody except those who take offence, and they know what it means.
Oh, and "Bill Posters". Everybody is out to get him.
For a start the gentleman who expressed his faith on the streets of Sydney got his message writ large on the Harbour Bridge at the turn of this century so I think he actually succeeded in getting his message across.
The photo of the poster has no context. It could be on someone's bedroom door for all we know.
Finally George W if you're not for us you're against us? Wake up to yourself Frank. I don't have to tie my colours to any ill conceived protest movement through your attempts to "shame" me into submission.
Outside of the State of NSW, ICAC is something you blow out of your nose and for the majority of Australians CASA is probably Spanish for something. My point once again for the dull of mind was that if 19 deaths in an aeroplane is not enough to stir the public consciousness then posters with no context is just silly.
The photo of the poster has no context. It could be on someone's bedroom door for all we know.
Finally George W if you're not for us you're against us? Wake up to yourself Frank. I don't have to tie my colours to any ill conceived protest movement through your attempts to "shame" me into submission.
Outside of the State of NSW, ICAC is something you blow out of your nose and for the majority of Australians CASA is probably Spanish for something. My point once again for the dull of mind was that if 19 deaths in an aeroplane is not enough to stir the public consciousness then posters with no context is just silly.
Last edited by Lookleft; 2nd Aug 2014 at 00:14. Reason: You can't blow something into your nose!
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I just don't get your stance on things. In the past, creampuff and I used to cross swords regularly until I got the drift that he was playing "devils advocate". He directed the subject matter into more positive territory. You will note now we rarely have issues except when boredom sets in and I get an urge to chuck a rock at him. When you post you criticize, but don't lead the thread anywhere which leads others including myself to question your motives. It's not "them and us", there is a group of individuals beholden to CAsA for their existence and have become hostages to a Stockholm syndrome. These people are more dangerous to any "ill conceived protest movement" than the CAsA themselves. I hope you are not one such individual, I sincerely do.
"Ill conceived protest movements" have made more inroads to reform than snipers sitting on the sidelines taking out individuals and disrupting threads. Do you really think the Senate would have acted without input from many of the PPRune posters? Do you think Truss wouldn't have attempted to gazump the Senate with a "review" that garnered hundreds of submissions, many from PPRune posters? Would the IOS have been seen as significant enough for The skull to brand them "ills of society" and mendacious bloggers"? Would the ill conceived protest movement have had enough impact for someone to post bills accusing CAsA of being corrupt? (no matter how valuable the advertising message).
Out of interest, exactly what is your agenda?
Incidentally, the "eternity" message, although blazing in glory on the bridge, is still lost on me. What exactly was his message, other than it was a message. (Probably extraterrestrial).
"Ill conceived protest movements" have made more inroads to reform than snipers sitting on the sidelines taking out individuals and disrupting threads. Do you really think the Senate would have acted without input from many of the PPRune posters? Do you think Truss wouldn't have attempted to gazump the Senate with a "review" that garnered hundreds of submissions, many from PPRune posters? Would the IOS have been seen as significant enough for The skull to brand them "ills of society" and mendacious bloggers"? Would the ill conceived protest movement have had enough impact for someone to post bills accusing CAsA of being corrupt? (no matter how valuable the advertising message).
Out of interest, exactly what is your agenda?
Incidentally, the "eternity" message, although blazing in glory on the bridge, is still lost on me. What exactly was his message, other than it was a message. (Probably extraterrestrial).
Because its Saturday its too cold to be outside and I am taking a break from more serious matters let me go through your points Frank.
Creampuff and I are rarely in disagreement, what does that tell you? What is the difference between chucking rocks and sniping?
You have asked that question before in a PM. I don't work for CASA. Look at my postings. There are about 750 odd scattered around Pprrune so its fairly easy to work out my background and current employment.
Making a submission to Senate inquiries and posting on Pprune are two separate activities. I don't think Pprune has that much influence and I'm sure the Mods don't think so either. Senators are serious people doing serious things, they don't rely on Bulletin Boards to inquire into serious matters. I have met some of the people who were advising Senator X. They weren't wearing IOS t-shirts or quoting Pprune, so the answer is no.
We all think McCormick is unhinged so why would what he thinks be of any relevance? Given the lack of context for that photo of the poster I really think it has no more impact than Jinglie's t-shirt and as Jinglie posted the picture, I would not be surprised if the origins of the poster are closely linked.
Don't have one Frank. I'm just an observer. Why do you think everyone needs an agenda? Having a different point of view does not imply agenda. Asking people to be accountable for what they post does not imply agenda. When others want to go bare knuckle on the keyboard and I choose to respond does not imply agenda. I don't do sudoku I post on Pprune, thats as basic as it gets.
I assume your last statement was a thought bubble so I'll leave you with it. Have a good weekend.
In the past, creampuff and I used to cross swords regularly until I got the drift that he was playing "devils advocate". He directed the subject matter into more positive territory. You will note now we rarely have issues except when boredom sets in and I get an urge to chuck a rock at him.
It's not "them and us", there is a group of individuals beholden to CAsA for their existence and have become hostages to a Stockholm syndrome. These people are more dangerous to any "ill conceived protest movement" than the CAsA themselves. I hope you are not one such individual, I sincerely do.
"Ill conceived protest movements" have made more inroads to reform than snipers sitting on the sidelines taking out individuals and disrupting threads. Do you really think the Senate would have acted without input from many of the PPRune posters? Do you think Truss wouldn't have attempted to gazump the Senate with a "review" that garnered hundreds of submissions, many from PPRune posters?
Would the IOS have been seen as significant enough for The skull to brand them "ills of society" and mendacious bloggers"? Would the ill conceived protest movement have had enough impact for someone to post bills accusing CAsA of being corrupt? (no matter how valuable the advertising message).
Out of interest, exactly what is your agenda?
I assume your last statement was a thought bubble so I'll leave you with it. Have a good weekend.
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Quickly so I too can go out and sun myself;
1) Rocks vs rifle. Interesting. Would you like to stand 50 meters in front of me chucking rocks or firing a rifle with sights at you?
2) I have never sent a PM to you. Do you have any other identities I may have written to that you have mistaken subliminally?
3) You're delusional. CAsA are probably responsible for most "hits" on ANZ&P- PPRune. I know Senators X and Fawcett do read these threads. I have directed them to many and have acknowledgements. None openly contribute.
4) Your opinion, and as I don't know I can't help you. This thread is about the Truss ASSR. The street poster seems apt and suitable for inclusion here. Not sure about T shirts though, I've a better idea, a bit like the Abbott one.
5) I asked the question, what did the writer of "eternity" mean. As I don't know, I would be interested in your opinion. You seem have many for a simple "observer". (who contributes).
"Ditto" the weekend, thanks.
1) Rocks vs rifle. Interesting. Would you like to stand 50 meters in front of me chucking rocks or firing a rifle with sights at you?
2) I have never sent a PM to you. Do you have any other identities I may have written to that you have mistaken subliminally?
3) You're delusional. CAsA are probably responsible for most "hits" on ANZ&P- PPRune. I know Senators X and Fawcett do read these threads. I have directed them to many and have acknowledgements. None openly contribute.
4) Your opinion, and as I don't know I can't help you. This thread is about the Truss ASSR. The street poster seems apt and suitable for inclusion here. Not sure about T shirts though, I've a better idea, a bit like the Abbott one.
5) I asked the question, what did the writer of "eternity" mean. As I don't know, I would be interested in your opinion. You seem have many for a simple "observer". (who contributes).
"Ditto" the weekend, thanks.
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Hi Frank. Send me an email (not a PM as they can be 'read'). I will let you know who LL is. You should have just asked me in the first place 
Sarcs, thanks for posting the Whirlybird letter written by Messr Crook re Part 61. The compliance requirements are a nightmare and the additional training requirements are not only expensive but in this current aviation/economical climate will be business savaging to say the least. Another Fort Fumble exercise that is doomed to not work properly. They will end up manipulating, massaging and twisting it more than the Skull does to his cigars on a bad day!
Tick tock
Sarcs, thanks for posting the Whirlybird letter written by Messr Crook re Part 61. The compliance requirements are a nightmare and the additional training requirements are not only expensive but in this current aviation/economical climate will be business savaging to say the least. Another Fort Fumble exercise that is doomed to not work properly. They will end up manipulating, massaging and twisting it more than the Skull does to his cigars on a bad day!
Tick tock
Last edited by 004wercras; 2nd Aug 2014 at 09:03. Reason: Busy reading some of Lookyloo's Facebook rants and blogs to other organisations.
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And the winner is????
The final interview from the short list of DAS candidates was meant to take place today, with the winners name announced in the coming week or two.
I wonder if the final interview included a game of corporate snakes and ladders, a team building exercise with Chairman Hawke around one of Can'tberras finest buffets, or maybe some apple bobbing? Either way the announcement is just around the corner, and many wait with baited breath. Personally I don't hold out any hope really, not unless Reverend Forsythe becomes anointed as Junior Minister for aviation, the entire board (except Boyd) is terminated, DAS's 2 and 3 are given their marching orders, and it starts snowing in Apia!!
As Sunny would say 'to put that another way' - I don't believe anything will change. However, and here is the silver lining - the next federal election may hold the key. If the punters are truly sick of the Abbott/Shorten mess of recent years and vote in the independents, the PUP's, Greens, the Lawnbowl party and whatever, then we may see change. Otherwise it is BOHICA time boys and gals (another option for a t-shirt Jinglie?).
Tick tock
I wonder if the final interview included a game of corporate snakes and ladders, a team building exercise with Chairman Hawke around one of Can'tberras finest buffets, or maybe some apple bobbing? Either way the announcement is just around the corner, and many wait with baited breath. Personally I don't hold out any hope really, not unless Reverend Forsythe becomes anointed as Junior Minister for aviation, the entire board (except Boyd) is terminated, DAS's 2 and 3 are given their marching orders, and it starts snowing in Apia!!
As Sunny would say 'to put that another way' - I don't believe anything will change. However, and here is the silver lining - the next federal election may hold the key. If the punters are truly sick of the Abbott/Shorten mess of recent years and vote in the independents, the PUP's, Greens, the Lawnbowl party and whatever, then we may see change. Otherwise it is BOHICA time boys and gals (another option for a t-shirt Jinglie?).
Tick tock
Last edited by 004wercras; 4th Aug 2014 at 05:38. Reason: Had to feed Minnie, 'K' is off for the day, fishing along the banks of the Styx river.
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Bait is for fishin'
No mate, not fishin' – ambled over to the cat house, someone trod on a tigers tail and all hell broke loose, it's the real deal; drugs, sex and rock'n roll, the works. Most diverting.
I also heard DAS interviews on today. There is a whisper that certain individuals were chained up and sharp implements confiscated to prevent candidate carnage. I am curious though – a full panel? who are they; you can see Mrdak and Hawke being there, Boyd, (if they told him it was on), that makes two board and the miniscule's man, McComic is in the sin bin, so who were the other three? ? ?. So, couple or three days, chin wag with the minuscule and we'll know – all. This is a critical piece of the jigsaw puzzle and will answer many questions. Just hope 'they' have got it right because if there is to be true reform, as demanded and expected, the DAS will be pivotal.
Think on - If 'they' get it right, we would report the good things, tell happy stories about a flourishing, confident, robust industry. We could even put the house boat in dry dock for a while, it needs some TLC, Gobbledock could come home and we can laze about the place all day, run morning tea into lunch and declare beer-o-clock whenever it pleased.. I don't want to even think about the 'wrong' call.
My breath ain't quite bated, but every now and then, I hold it for a few seconds, then shake the old wooden head and plough on. We shall see; soon enough, not many sleeps to go now.
Toot toot..-.-
Oh, a mate over in the Ukraine says it's a good thing Beaker didn't go; he reckons the cadaver dogs would have had him, for certain sure. (quiet chuckle).
Two of my favourite things – in one;
Sponsored by IOS chapter for peace in our time.
I also heard DAS interviews on today. There is a whisper that certain individuals were chained up and sharp implements confiscated to prevent candidate carnage. I am curious though – a full panel? who are they; you can see Mrdak and Hawke being there, Boyd, (if they told him it was on), that makes two board and the miniscule's man, McComic is in the sin bin, so who were the other three? ? ?. So, couple or three days, chin wag with the minuscule and we'll know – all. This is a critical piece of the jigsaw puzzle and will answer many questions. Just hope 'they' have got it right because if there is to be true reform, as demanded and expected, the DAS will be pivotal.
Think on - If 'they' get it right, we would report the good things, tell happy stories about a flourishing, confident, robust industry. We could even put the house boat in dry dock for a while, it needs some TLC, Gobbledock could come home and we can laze about the place all day, run morning tea into lunch and declare beer-o-clock whenever it pleased.. I don't want to even think about the 'wrong' call.
My breath ain't quite bated, but every now and then, I hold it for a few seconds, then shake the old wooden head and plough on. We shall see; soon enough, not many sleeps to go now.
Toot toot..-.-
Oh, a mate over in the Ukraine says it's a good thing Beaker didn't go; he reckons the cadaver dogs would have had him, for certain sure. (quiet chuckle).
Two of my favourite things – in one;
“Bated” is one of those words that only appears as part of a phrase (“with bated breath”). It first appears in the Merchant of Venice:
Shall I bend low and in a bondman’s key,
With bated breath and whispering humbleness, Say this;
‘Fair sir, you spit on me on Wednesday last;
You spurn’d me such a day; another time
You call’d me dog; and for these courtesies
I’ll lend you thus much moneys’?
So what does it mean? When a hawk is tethered it’s called “bated” – it’s a contraction of “abated,” meaning “restrained.” So to listen with bated breath means to listen whilst restraining, or holding, your breath.
Occasionally, the phrase is erroneously written as “baited breath” (including, it’s alleged, in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban) – clearly that makes practically no sense.
Shall I bend low and in a bondman’s key,
With bated breath and whispering humbleness, Say this;
‘Fair sir, you spit on me on Wednesday last;
You spurn’d me such a day; another time
You call’d me dog; and for these courtesies
I’ll lend you thus much moneys’?
So what does it mean? When a hawk is tethered it’s called “bated” – it’s a contraction of “abated,” meaning “restrained.” So to listen with bated breath means to listen whilst restraining, or holding, your breath.
Occasionally, the phrase is erroneously written as “baited breath” (including, it’s alleged, in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban) – clearly that makes practically no sense.
Last edited by Kharon; 4th Aug 2014 at 21:40. Reason: Left out the best bit.
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Can you help.
The PAIN association has been advised that certain individuals are purporting to represent, or to actually be an active part of the network to various individuals and agencies.
If anyone, or someone you know has received any form of communication from; or, been approached for comment or information by anyone claiming to represent PAIN within the preceding six months, could they please contact us through the Pprune private message service. We are particularly interested in any electronic communications from the following email address.
[email protected]
We apologise for any inconvenience or annoyance caused through unauthorised communication, we are taking steps toward resolving the issue.
Thank you.
P7. a.k.a. TOM.
If anyone, or someone you know has received any form of communication from; or, been approached for comment or information by anyone claiming to represent PAIN within the preceding six months, could they please contact us through the Pprune private message service. We are particularly interested in any electronic communications from the following email address.
[email protected]
We apologise for any inconvenience or annoyance caused through unauthorised communication, we are taking steps toward resolving the issue.
Thank you.
P7. a.k.a. TOM.
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Creampuff – with respect; the association is neither melodramatic or 'secret' in any respect, but it is discrete. The core research group are all very experienced aviation professionals, from many disciplines who have worked hard to earn a little credibility where it matters. The groups fundamental purpose is to assist, where possible others in the industry with their issues and problems.
I doubt anyone would steal a false identity as you opine:
- but how would you respond if 'someone' purporting to be you was talking with CASA board members or other industry heavyweights?
All we are simply asking is that if anyone from Pprune has been contacted or have had an email from the address above; they inform us. We do not as a rule initiate contact or engage with people unknown to one of the core group.
P7 a.k.a. TOM
I doubt anyone would steal a false identity as you opine:
It invites false identity theft
All we are simply asking is that if anyone from Pprune has been contacted or have had an email from the address above; they inform us. We do not as a rule initiate contact or engage with people unknown to one of the core group.
P7 a.k.a. TOM
Last edited by PAIN_NET; 5th Aug 2014 at 05:48. Reason: "K", I see what you mean; he's all yours my boy, we'll see you for dinner.
Discrete? If you say so …
We’re not particularly fussed about what people say about Creampuff. We are a discreet alliance of nobodies dedicated to the promotion of the group’s clay pigeon shooting averages.
We’re not particularly fussed about what people say about Creampuff. We are a discreet alliance of nobodies dedicated to the promotion of the group’s clay pigeon shooting averages.