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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 4th Dec 2014, 11:03
  #1541 (permalink)  
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CASAs function is thus characterised by both parties as :

(1) Ensuring passengers on airlines don't die in a screaming death plunge and,

(2) Preventing crazy pilots in all other little aircraft from making their own screaming death plunge into the members of the general public below them.
not totally correct old son.
the islamic world has put the cat among the pigeons and the problem is preventing terrorism.
aviation provides a wonderful mechanism for unchallenged attack and that is what worries the numpties to their core.

my mate the prison psychologist told me a little while ago that criminals in australian society only exist at about a 3% of the population.
97% of us are honest upright trustworthy citizens.

the islamic terror worries have an entire army of security utterly foxed.
they don't know where the next threat will come from.
so instead of seeing us as honest people to deal with they sit there worried and slowly going insane in their efforts to prevent a calamity.

of course if you charge a paperwork generating abortion like CAsA with a task of actually doing something. ...well they're stuffed aren't they.

if you want a happy future just ignore the nutters totally and go flying.
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Old 4th Dec 2014, 20:24
  #1542 (permalink)  
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Good on you Sarcs for posting Albos rationalisation of his do nothing time in Government! Now that Truss has responded and the TSBC have highlighted where the ATSB can improve lets hope they stop the procrastinating and just get on with it. Based on past performance though I dont recommend holding your breath. Maybe plant an oak tree and see what comes first; a mature oak tree or a mature Regulator.
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Old 4th Dec 2014, 20:36
  #1543 (permalink)  
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A day in the hall of smoke and mirrors.

CP – "It’s interesting that even Phil Hurst has been sucked in by all the smoke and mirrors."
Has he though?, no one could call Hurst dopey and it would be incorrect to say that he does not fully understand the twisted by-ways of Pollywaffle and the Murky Machiavellian method of bending light. It's up to industry now to make certain that the fish does not wriggle off the hook. The first polite steps have been taken and even if Truss has offered a placebo, the words and music are there. Every pilot and operator needs to grab a copy of the Forsyth recommendations and the Truss response and turn them into lethal weapons.

Every time someone has their cage rattled; see what was promised and point out to the 'rattler' that the action they propose is contrary to the spirit and intent of the Truss acceptance of the Rev. Forsyths' little shopping list. None of the promised changes will happen if industry does not pull it's weight and make things happen. Jabiru can now dispense with the old method of simply copping it. Use the words to insist on an new deal, fresh eyes and proper homework being presented to Skidmore and his board. Make the buggers work.

'Jab' handled properly could do more to decimate the remnants of the McComic supported bastardry than Pel Air did. For starters, it's jobs and exports CASA intend to remove, that has legs. Prove the 'facts and circumstances' to be incorrect and take them directly to 'the man', argue the case and prove the vendetta was all about the CASA antagonist covering his arse, lest the duck-ups from his previous jobs reflect badly on his future well being. This is now contrary to the stated government policy of change. The tools are there, just pick 'em up and use them; without fear.

Change will not occur with industry sitting on it's rump, trying to keep warm wrapped in a the tissue thin comfort blanket offered by Truss. Light a fire, make it happen for it's as sure as eggs, the McComic remnants will have recruited the MM crew to find ways and means of reversing the good intent and finding alternate means of continuing their merry charade.

The history of the previous inquiries into 'CASA' shows exactly what will happen; if industry sits back and thinks it's won. See Morrison, 300 sitting days of inquiry and CASA ran around the back alleys and made sure nothing changed.

Seconds out, round two ; ding ding.
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Old 4th Dec 2014, 23:55
  #1544 (permalink)  
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Who is in the marksman's sights?

Well it is that time of the year again. Usually CASA, at any given time, are under some sort of public scrutiny or accusation. In turn when that scrutiny is very public they like to shutdown an operator, somewhere, anywhere, to prove that they truly have 'safety' at the forefront of all decisions. Yes the big 'R' regulator likes to use Xmas as the perfect time to issue a safety alert causing business closure, awkward appeals, loss of December revenue, and making it hard for the operator to respond around the public holidays
So who will be the victim this December/January? My source tells me that Inspectors are paying 'extra attention' to several operators at the moment! Is the 'R'egulator poised to strike? Have you my friends been left off this years CASA Xmas card list? You better check behind the bushes, above the horizon and under the desk as you never know if Inspector Plod is lurking. Yes I hope you have been good boys and girls otherwise SantaCASA won't be bringing you anything nice
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Old 5th Dec 2014, 00:34
  #1545 (permalink)  
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Around the traps.

To begin I would first like to note that Dougy is MIA and his SARtime note has expired... Oh well here is hoping that all is well...

MMSM Steve has been busy here are two of his offerings, both published at 12am today: Norfolk Island probe ‘flawed’ & Coalition backs safety review

I won't rehash either of those articles but needless to say SC has succeeded in regurgitating most of the information already put out by his peers. He does however manage to get a quote or two from the RAAA which is new:
Regional Aviation Association of Australia chairman Jim Davis said yesterday that his organisation had always supported the ASRR report.
“We’ve always seen it as the way forward. We’ve seen it as the blueprint that was needed to reform CASA and to bring regulatory reform in Australia back into balance,’’ Mr Davis said. “So we’re very pleased to see that the majority of recommendations in the report have been adopted.’’
Mr Davis said the RAAA had not agreed with the rejected recommendation.
“The only reservation we have at this point is that quite a lot of recommendations were agreed to but in principle only,’’ he said, adding the RAAA would like to see these issues followed through and not lost because of technical or legal difficulties.
“We’d like the see the spirit of the ASRR report carried through right to the end to achieve a satisfactory result with CASA and the regulatory reform program.’’
Mr Davis welcomed the appointment to the CASA board of Mr Warfield as “an excellent choice’’ because of his breadth of experience.
“In fact, we think all the board members are a good choice,’’ Mr Davis said. “We think they provide quite a cross-section of the industry and quite a breadth of experience and we believe most of them. or all of them, will be hands-on and get quite involved in this process of restructuring and bringing governance to CASA.’’
Given the comments from Creamy & Co on AerialAg Phil I thought it was apt to include Proaviation's article on just that subject..: Agricultural operators welcome government’s ASRR response
The Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia, one of the most energetic critics of the regulator’s recent performance, has warmly welcomed Government’s response to the Forsyth Aviation Regulation Review and the Deputy Prime Minister’s appointment of an additional three experienced aviation people to the CASA Board.
AAAA CEO, Phil Hurst, said that the appointments to the CASA Board were “a critical first step to reform of a dysfunctional CASA.”

“AAAA has previously welcomed the appointment of a new CEO of CASA, Mr Skidmore, and the announcement today of three new Board members – all with aviation experience – is another strong downpayment on improving CASA governance and creating a better relationship with industry,” said Mr Hurst.

“The Government’s detailed response to the Forsyth Review is also a very positive statement of intent to both reset the CASA/industry relationship and to bring CASA up to speed as a regulator we can be proud of.
“In particular, AAAA welcomes the Government’s commitment to issue a new statement of expectations to CASA that will give effect to the recommendations in the Forsyth Report.

“By committing to a risk management hierarchy based on a classification of operations (Recommendation 28 in the Government’s response), the Government will reinforce the value of identifying sectors of industry that are capable of delivering safety outcomes with CASA support, as witnessed by AAAA’s ongoing work with CASA on establishing a sector risk profile for aerial application.

“AAAA fully supports the Deputy Prime Minister’s decision to not force the transfer of ATSB’s safety education role to CASA as ATSB’s education role is fundamentally different to CASAs.

“AAAA notes, however, that good policy intentions from the Government must be converted into coherent actions and improvements by CASA. Industry desperately wants meaningful change in its interactions with CASA – including improvements in response to issues such as regulatory reform, AOC issuing and amendment timeframes, licencing and reductions in costs.

“The government’s response today should represent a very welcome turning of the page for aviation policy. AAAA remains fully committed to working with the government, the new CASA Board and the new CASA CEO to deliver a better aviation industry for all Australians.”
Finally Hitch gives a pretty good summary of the weeks events as they unfolded...: The Last Minute Hitch: 5 December 2015
The week just past may be remembered in Australia as the turning point in the fortunes of aviation in this country. A series of good-news stories rolling out of Canberra displayed a willingness to change on behalf of government, and a recognition that a long barrage of complaints had to have some merit.

Oddly enough, Australian aviation's good-news week started in Canada when the Canadian TSB published their review of the ATSB. Comparing ATSB methods over three investigations, it found that they failed miserably to apply good practice to the Pel-Air Norfolk Island ditching investigation. That they found little else wrong with the ATSB but that begs (and fails) to ask why that particular report and no other? Had they found regular, serious systemic issues you would write-off Pel-Air as just another instance of mismanagement, but as they didn't, we can't. My love of a good conspiracy theory drives me to smell political interference.

The applause from that had barely died down when Warren Truss rose in the lower house to deliver the government's response to the Forsyth Report. For aviation's movers, shakers, lobbyists and supporters, the response was effectively vindication that the struggle they have been through was right. The government response gives new Director of Aviation Safety Mark Skidmore a mandate to return CASA to a position of respect and integrity within aviation. It demands a culture change, better engagement with industry, less Draconian measures, a system of regulation built on justice and a new era of accountability. In the shortest possible words: Warren Truss wants the second "A" in CASA to have meaning. So, now we the aviation industry have 80-90% of what we wanted, what are we going to do next? The time for agitating and non-co-operation appears to be over. It's OK for the government to embrace reform, but the industry has to get in on the group hug or next year we'll all still be complaining. The sun has shone ... let's make hay.

Certainly there is one man in Australia who is feeling the sun on his face this week: Dominic James. Since the ATSB squarely blamed him for ditching Westwind VH-NGA off Norfolk Island in 2009, he has been working hard to get the ATSB to withdraw the report and straighten out some anomalies in the reasoning and look a lot closer at the systemic failures. This week, the government has agreed with James, and stated in parliament that it will ask the ATSB to consider re-opening the investigation. After the damning senate inquiry and the Canadian TSB review, this call should be enough to sway the commission to withdraw the report and this time do it properly.

And we finally have the last three members of the CASA board. It has been a while coming, but the new look board now has a good mix of aviation people and governance experts that are capable of exerting full control over CASA. The previous board remained too anonymous to be able to gauge their performance, except to say that a good board is not anonymous. Mid next year, we can expect the board chair to pass to respected aviation identity Jeff Boyd. Not a lot of bad news there, either.

Where bad news did come from was the loss of Gordon Rich-Phillips as Victorian Minister Responsible for the Aviation Industry. With the change of government last weekend, Australia lost its one and only aviation minister. Whether or not you are Liberal or Labor, Gordon did some fantastic work for aviation, fueled by an enthusiasm for general aviation. His work improved the lot of the general public in regional Victoria with significant airport upgrades that would enable air ambulances to operate from airfields previously excluded. We all owe him a vote of thanks.

May your gauges always be in the green,


Ps If Dougy turns up will update...
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Old 5th Dec 2014, 09:35
  #1546 (permalink)  
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Australian nominated for ICAO Secretary General.

Mr John McCormick, recent past Director of Aviation Safety, CASA, has been nominated by the Australian Government for the position of ICAO Secretary General. This was announced during the ICAO International Aviation and Environment Seminar held 28 to 30 October 2014 held at the Concorde Hotel, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

The announcement was made by the Director, International Standards, Australian Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development, at the conclusion of his presentation titled “Australia and CAEP”.

Media reports suggest there are four candidates for the position being from Australia, Brazil China, and India.

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Old 5th Dec 2014, 10:14
  #1547 (permalink)  
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Media reports suggest there are four candidates for the position being from Australia, Brazil China, and India.
Correct, 4 candidates, however only 2 are in the real running, one of them being Herr Skull......and i got that directly from the halls of Can'tberra
Only time will tell (by around March 2015) if the angry one succeeds in winning possibly the most coveted aviation position within the upper echelon of apple bobbers. I just hope that Montreal is ready for the cigar smoking anger management failure from Australia! I hope they have somewhere for him to park his precious Yak, somewhere for him to smoke his stoogies (out of the blizzards), somewhere for him to hang up his Hawaiian shirt and moose hat, and that they provide an object free work environment where all loose items are tied down and tethered in his office to prevent them being thrown at walls!!

Hang on to your maple leaves my dear Canucks, the Skull is on short finals......
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 03:59
  #1548 (permalink)  
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you are all a bunch of suckers.
The mountain of waffle legislation with all its included bullshit and draconian provisions is still there in its entirety.

....but now it will be implemented by a bunch of really nice guys. wowie.

until all the bollocks legislation ( which btw is fully approved by the government ) is trashed and replaced by something trim and to the point....


suckers all of you.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 04:43
  #1549 (permalink)  
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W8 has a few litmus items that indicate change for the better is actually occurring.

The canadians had a problem with owners doing their own maintenance.
the bastards wouldn't stop doing it.
So transport Canada mounted a safety case. an honest look at the "problem".
What they found in the statistics was that private owner maintainers weren't crashing aircraft at any greater rate than "properly" maintained aircraft.
The statistics proved that there was no detriment.

So canada made private owner maintenance legal.
they also created an owner maintained category of registration.
this allows commercially built privately owned aircraft to be decertified and maintained by the owner on a stand alone basis.

all on the basis of a safety case done by honest enquiring minds.

compare the australian situation. 2 years in prison for not having a maintenance release. no option for owner maintenance at all.
a system that tries by draconian legislation to preserve a totally certified environment.

in reality among all the private owners I know there is only one not actively maintaining his own aircraft.

if you want further proof that the world has moved on from CAsA's draconian "certification" download the australian VH aircraft register from the CAsA website. stick it in a spreadsheet and count the number of amateur built aircraft.
then do some further churning. work out the percentage of new aircraft that weren't built in factories.

when we see the reality reflected in some sensible legislation, then and only then, will we have made progress.

until then private owners like me will ignore it all.

CAsA, the Clueless And Senile Administrator.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 20:48
  #1550 (permalink)  
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Albanese - Aircraft Hater

For the avoidance of doubt, the former and perhaps again future Minister For Aviation has by his own words branded himself as a hater of aviation in all its forms.

I refer to his speech as reported by Hansard, in response to Minister Truss's announcement of the Governments response to the Forsyth report.

I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to John McCormick. John McCormick did an outstanding job. He was someone who was recruited after an international search for the best person. He brought decades of experience, not just in the Australian aviation industry but also particularly in Hong Kong, for Cathay Pacific, and in the international sector. I think he provided a rigour that was needed at the time. When John McCormick made the decision to ground Tiger Airways, that decision to ground an RPT service for the first—and hopefully the last—time in Australia's history was not only a courageous step but one that was entirely appropriate and needed.
Factually incorrect. Ansett lost their AOC. CASA routinely kills charter operators all the time but these are beneath Albaneses notice.

In the report, the review panel expressed concern about relations between the industry and the regulator. It said this:
In recent years, the regulator has adopted an across the board hard-line philosophy, which in the Panel’s view, is not appropriate for an advanced aviation nation such as Australia. As a result, relationships between industry and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) have, in many cases, become adversarial.
It went on to recommend a new strategic direction for CASA, calling for a more 'collaborative relationship on a foundation of mutual trust and respect'. It is here that I would respectfully sound a note of caution to the minister. I certainly agree that it is important for a regulated industry, like aviation, to have constructive and respectful relations between the regulator and the industry; but I would be very concerned if the relationship between CASA and aviation operators became too close. I expressed this concern to David Forsyth, who the minister ensured—and I thank him for this—gave me a verbal review as well, and we were able to have a very constructive discussion about it. If I could, I would like to express some caution. I think that, by definition, a regulator must have a bit of tension with those people who it is regulating, particularly in aviation.

Why "particularly in Aviation?

The term 'trainspotters' is pretty familiar to people; in aviation there are 'plane spotters'. They think that they know best, and they do not want to be told by any regulator that they do not know how to keep their plane safe. But the truth is that the incidents that have occurred in this country have occurred particularly with small planes, which are involved in incidents all too regularly.
So we are "naughty children" who know nothing? Might the light aircraft accident rate have something to do with the fact that there are a lot of them?

If I could sound that cautious note, as I expressed to David Forsyth: the customers are not the people who own the planes; the customers of CASA and aviation safety are the people on the planes and the people who would be impacted if there were an incident. Planes fly over my house at far too regular intervals. My electorate is the second smallest geographically; Wentworth is the smallest. These areas have highly dense populations. If there were an incident in these most densely populated areas of Australia, it would have an impact not just on people on the planes but on people in the vicinity of an airport. If I could express that concern—that we must never sacrifice rigour for harmony.
The public rate the probability of an accident event proportional to the ease with which it can be imagined, not the actual probability. Albanese is similarly ignorant. How many cars run into houses and pedestrians? Lots. AIrcraft? The last on ground fatality caused by an aircraft that I can remember was in 1978, this one:


I agree with the minister that the actions of the regulator must be firm, and they must also be fair. But the minister has a responsibility to hold the line against industry pressure. We must maintain the necessary tension between the regulator and the regulated to keep all parties on their toes. If they are on their toes then they are focused on what matters: the safety of the travelling public. If they were allowed to operate too closely and without appropriate distance, the public would be the loser. So, while doing all we can to promote professional dealings among all participants in the industry, our overriding responsibility is to make accident prevention and proper safety standards our primary concern. All other concerns must be further down the ladder.
So preventing aviation is Albaneses preferred method of regulation of the industry, not a word about the positive effects of aviation on jobs, investment and growth.

No wonder this country is in a mess.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 21:18
  #1551 (permalink)  
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Sunny – Spot on.

Just to add insult to injury; the current minuscule has let the opposition steal the high ground; politically exposing Abbott to more ridicule and censure. Truss had Albo by the 'ackers and then just stood there, letting him wriggle away. That gives the potential leader of the opposition a bag full of free kicks; particularly as Truss has done bugger all of consequence, and even that pittance, so begrudgingly doled out, so late as to make the industry despair. Mrdak has much to answer for; fat chance he'll ever be forced to carry the can. Not while the scapegoat paddock is brimming with fresh, juicy morsels; there's even some old weathers laying about to use up, before he needs to look to the new stock.

Albo hates aeroplane noise – he's bound by his voters to do so. And he's good at it.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 22:41
  #1552 (permalink)  
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Angry Australian nominated for ICAO Secretary General

Karon, to add more insult to the injury...

Australian nominated for ICAO Secretary General

Mr John McCormick, recent past Director of Aviation Safety, CASA, has been nominated by the Australian Government for the position of ICAO Secretary General. This was announced during the ICAO International Aviation and Environment Seminar held 28 to 30 October 2014 held at the Concorde Hotel, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

The announcement was made by the Director, International Standards, Australian Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development...
The appointment seems to demonstrate beyond any doubt whatsoever the contempt held by the leadership of the Department of the Australian aviation industry in general if it's prepared to make that nomination, particularly after all that's transpired with regard to the disgraceful events surrounding the PEL AIR investigation 'debacle', and especially after the concerns expressed by the Senate Inquiry regarding the involvement of the former DAS.

The mind boggles.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 23:56
  #1553 (permalink)  
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McCormick for Santa Claus.

Who is the Director, International Standards, Australian Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development?

This bloke perhaps?


Last edited by Frank Arouet; 6th Dec 2014 at 23:58. Reason: Gone to McVomit.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 05:12
  #1554 (permalink)  
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Jeez frank, can the Murky Macavellian, get any murkier??..no doubt about it the consummate "Sir Humphry".

No wonder the country is in the state its in.
Public servants?....servants of the public??...self serving...now we are getting closer to the truth.

Classic commentary in the weekend Australian about how big business collude with the unions to inflate costs of public projects by acquiescing to thuggish illegal union demands. Increased costs equals increased profits. Who pays? the poor old taxpayer, anything up the 35% more for given projects.

Where are the Pollies and their Sir Humphries in all this? I always imagined they were the ones supposedly sworn uphold the rule of law??
Silly naïve boy, they are Plotting and Manipulating to protect their campaign contributions and bonuses, bugger the taxpayer.


The Macavellian Manipulator's previous Mindee...what a piece of work....then again aint they all.

I'm of the opinion, which seems to be shared by an awful lot of people that the number of "Honest" politicians in our current parliament you could probably count on the fingers of one hand, and you certainly don't rise to the position of a senior bureaucrat by being an honorable person.

What has happened to our democracy??, we'd be better off letting the Mafia run the country.

"When John McCormick made the decision to ground Tiger Airways, that decision to ground an RPT service for the first—and hopefully the last—time in Australia's history was not only a courageous step but one that was entirely appropriate and needed."

Bull..sh.t! what was courageous about shutting down a small overseas controlled airline in the big scheme of things?

Except costing Singapore Inc 35 Mil or so. Rumour had it they were on the way down here with a bunch of lawyers to have CAsA on.
Wiser heads prevailed because it was easier to get their their money back by screwing QANTAS and Sh.t Star.
Asians do not like being stiffed, especially Singaporeans, there will always be an accounting.

"I certainly agree that it is important for a regulated industry, like aviation, to have constructive and respectful relations between the regulator and the industry;"

Tell you what you supercilious buffoon, I'd be happy to respect CAsA when they respect the industry. Respect is EARNED!

"They think that they know best, and they do not want to be told by any regulator that they do not know how to keep their plane safe."

And if you had the faintest idea on anything to do with aviation you'd know that whole statement is the reverse of reality.

"Planes fly over my house at far too regular intervals."

If that upsets you, move. Airports are for the public good, not playthings for dirt bags.

"But the truth is that the incidents that have occurred in this country have occurred particularly with small planes, which are involved in incidents all too regularly."

Finally agreement on something.

Same goes for those bloody trucks cluttering up the highways.

Oh! and dont get me started on those pesky private drivers, crashing all over the place because its too expensive to fly, which is not safe anyway.

Trouble is, conclusively, CAsA have failed with their BIG R Philosophy, incompetence and maleficence to have the slightest affect on safety.

Safety in Australia has not improved one iota. Unlike the USA, who have an entirely different approach.

But I guess you would be heartened that CAsA's incompetence has brought the industry to its knees

Wont affect the number of aircraft flying over your house unfortunately, however most of them will be foreign.

What you should do is move to Bankstown or Archerfield or Moorrabin, wont be long before all you can complain about is the noise from the industrial estates.

Last edited by thorn bird; 7th Dec 2014 at 22:32.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 06:40
  #1555 (permalink)  
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Additionally CASA plays a key role in developing new regulations and amending existing regulations to take account of industry changes, emerging safety issues and meeting international standards and practices.
This is the chronic structural problem in aviation regulation. I will try to explain the problem by analogy.

Imagine that the police are made responsible for the road toll and are given power to set the speed limit and the criteria to obtain a driver's licence, a car mechanic's licence and a roadworthy certificate. And the police get to charge money for the "service" of getting the necessary licences and certificates.

The police also have the power to revoke those licences and certificates.

However, the police do not have the expertise or the budget or the power to repair roads, build better roads or divided highways, install traffic lights or roundabouts etc.

(We could add to this (purely hypothetical) scenario some (purely hypothetical) trucking empires with influence in high places.)

In this scenario, what would we expect the police to do in response to road accidents? Simple really: Reduce the speed limit and make the criteria for obtaining a licence more stringent. Local councils not repairing the roads or the traffic lights, resulting in more accidents? Simple: Reduce the speed limit and make the criteria for obtaining a licence more stringent - lots more interactions with the regulator ($$ to the 'regulator') and lots more regulatory micro-management ($$ to the 'regulator'). Beef up the construction standards and inspection regimes of vehicles ($$ to the 'regulator'). All in the name of 'road safety'.

Note that the police don't do any analysis to find out the overall cost to society of all these responses, and whether the cost of, for example, repairing the pot holes and fixing the traffic lights, or building a dual, divided highway to replace the old road, is far outweighed by the benefit of having roads that can be used more efficiently by more people. That's not the job of the police.

This is precisely the place in which CASA has been put by successive governments. The current example, par exellance, is CASA's response to the Angel Flight accident, which is merely a subset of the classification of operations mess that has been dragging on for decades.

What would we expect CASA to do in response to Angel Flight accident? Simple really: Set increasingly higher standards for Angel Flights.

The fundamental structural problem is that CASA does not - because it cannot - weigh up all of the opportunity costs of setting standards. In the case of Angel Flights, for example, setting higher standards will reduce the number of pilots and aircraft that would otherwise have carried out thousands of Angel Flights without accident or incident. What is the cost of that to the community? CASA does not know and, more importantly, CASA doesn't care, because if some of those people die of their condition or in a road accident, that's not something for which CASA is responsible.

This is one of the many costs of the 'deal' done between governments and CASA. If CASA is going to be the patsy for anything that goes wrong in aviation, governments have to have plausible deniability of control over the 'independent' regulator. That's why Laborial Senators wave rhetorical fists rather than vote to make real changes to aviation-related legislation, and Ministers sing the praises of and reward whovever is prepared to be the chief patsy from time-to-time.

Last edited by Creampuff; 7th Dec 2014 at 19:21. Reason: Fix typos
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 18:09
  #1556 (permalink)  
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Brilliant analogy Creampuff!
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 19:14
  #1557 (permalink)  
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Perfect Creamie, thank you
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 20:13
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First class – Creampuff, Bravo and thank you. The Tim Tams are in the big tin on the top shelf along side the very best of posts....

Speaking of Patsy - have the unforgivable delays in report release and government response been induced by the 'department'. It's rumoured to be, all in an attempt to get the McComic boots under the ICAO table without the world realising just what they are having tea and biscuits with. At least one director of the FAA knows, but is he aware that the next McComic pantomime, starring Patsy is opening in Montreal...
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 21:04
  #1559 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,733
Meeting of the minds.

Yes indeed top post Creamy... Maybe should be FWD to the NXT party for consideration: Nick Xenophon to launch new party, hopes to press reset on politics

Perhaps between you and KC (& the AMROBA Band) you could draft up an Act amendment for an NX private members bill, as you appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet:
2015—Don’t Expect Changes in GA
The economic and political environment that we are in will prevent the reforms that are highlighted in the ASRR recommendations being properly implemented.
At last, the CASA Board has been announced thus meeting another point of the government’s aviation policy.
The government has also endorsed most of the ASRR recommendations.
However, the Federal government is being very conservative in making decisions, especially now elections and polls are working against them.
It is recognised by all participants in aviation that aviation is over-regulated even when compared to Europe.
GA is way over-regulated when compared to America, NZ and the ICAO SARPs.
Until regulatory imposed costs have been drastically reduced to enable young people to obtain pilot licences, then GA will languish. There are other costs associated with all training that needs to be contained.
Today, commercial jobs in GA for young pilots are few and far between. Private use of aircraft is too costly.
The private use of non-transport aircraft is declining but controlling ‘gophers’ are doing what their leaders direct which is not in the best interest of a safe and viable GA industry. Safe but no one is flying.
Since the beginning of the CAA/CASA era, post the Department moving from Melbourne, GA has become more regulated and increasingly hit with more and more costs.
Until government reviews the Civil Aviation Act, CASA will continue to have the same approach as now.
9A Performance of functions
(1) In exercising its powers and performing its functions, CASA
must regard the safety of air navigation as the most important
(2) Subject to subsection (1), CASA must exercise its powers
and perform its functions in a manner that ensures that, as
far as is practicable, the environment is protected from:
(a) the effects of the operation and use of aircraft; and
(b) the effects associated with the operation and use of
And, the main object of the Act makes participants wonder whether their survival & jobs are ever considered.
3A Main object of this Act
The main object of this Act is to establish a regulatory framework for maintaining, enhancing and promoting the safety of civil aviation, with particular emphasis on preventing aviation accidents and incidents.
With that anchor around your neck, the new CASA Board and DAS Skidmore are fairly restricted.
Change must come eventually but when? Next election?
Basically, the view of Parliament is that a regulatory framework that prevents aviation accidents, incidents and making no effect on the environment is the main reason for developing aviation regulations.
Until we have a Parliament that has a priority to develop Australian jobs and de-regulate GA to the same level as the ICAO SARPs, USA and even NZ, then sensible, workable regulatory reforms will not happen.
The ASRR Report, prepared by a Canadian, Englishman and an Australian, after consultation, gives some hope.
The foundations for job growth in general aviation and charter sectors is about enabling those that hold licences, delegations or authorisations issued by CASA to hold the same responsibilities as they hold in the USA FAR system.
To enable the creation of jobs, it is pressing that Australia’s future [aviation/aerospace] regulatory system must be completed within 2 years based on ASRR principles; using performance-based regulations (PBR), supported by all aviation safety compliance requirements documented in regulations/standards that receive Parliamentary scrutiny. That is, a return to “rule-of-law” principles.
Another reason that 2015 will not see any changes is that there is still no Ministerial Strategic Direction yet written to the CASA Board and CASA itself.
There are many jobs that can be created, especially in regional Australia, not only directly in aviation but in other associated activities, if the government’s strategic direction includes the ASRR & red tape reduction program.
The Minister’s strategic direction must require Australia & New Zealand to have common Australasian aviation standards, to enable better trade within a single aviation market. New Zealand aviation regulatory development is years ahead of Australia’s regulatory development.
Immediate adoption of the FAA system for GA, in a like manner as has been done in New Zealand, will see investment in GA because of long term certainty.
The longer government, government departments & its agencies procrastinates over aviation the longer it will be before positive action is taken to stabilise rural Australia.
A positive is the Department sets policy, Board will direct CASA, Government supports most of the ASRR Report.
However, a badly structured Civil Aviation Act is still fundamentally what is wrong with the current system.
{Reference: AMROBA Newsletter Vol11/issue12}

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Old 7th Dec 2014, 22:40
  #1560 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,456
AMROBA pretty much nail it again.

As things are, if the government withdrew VETS, foreign flying training would desert Australia as fast as a fart in a thunderstorm, and whats left?

A pitiful band of old farts, with decrepid old machinery, clinging by their finger nails waiting for the inevitable.

Going broke before they are picked off by CAsA.

Rumor has it that one of those old farts, a highly respected one, was recently picked off by the "Black widow", handmaiden of the infamous Wodger the Wabbit. Wonder what the old fart did to piss Wodger off? or was it payback.

Last edited by thorn bird; 7th Dec 2014 at 22:50.
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