Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 28th Jul 2014, 21:52
  #961 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
Ask not for whom the bell tolls:

Good catch Midnight – I just wonder if CASA are going to be allowed the freedom to pick and choose what they may or may not accept; without questions being asked and serious explanations being given. McComic and his crew have pretty much destroyed CASA credibility along with the self perpetuated myth of never being able to be challenged.

For airspace, Greg Hood is a very able man and more than capable of sorting out the 'airspace' issues, even the vexed military controlled airspace questions. Should he and his military counterpart sit down to an an open, honest dialogue, practical, sensible solutions could be found; unhindered by 'expert' opinion from the Sleepy Hollow sheltered workshop that is.


What CASA can't seem to accept is that major change is demanded and industry expects those changes; but the concept is alien to them. They have become very used to, and good at ignoring the likes of coroners, ATSB, FAA and ICAO; but this time the step from the sublime to ridiculous trod on a lot of toes. Since Pel Air and the Forsyth report, the way in which government perceive CASA, particularly in the Senate has changed. Make no mistake – the winds of change are indeed heading towards the ivory tower, like it or not.


In short, perhaps CASA will no longer be able to thumb their nose at industry, Senate and the recommendations of 'other' organisations; not with impunity anyway. CASA have, by a fair minded, impartial jury of peers been weighed, measured and definitely been found wanting. Speculating, but I reckon the Rev. Forsyth wisely allowed to overseas guru's enough latitude to form their own opinions; without his input. Their considered, expert opinion fully justified the Senate findings on the Pel Air ditching. CASA~have arrogantly been the architects of their own demise and must now attempt to be reconciled with industry as the WLR demands.


The only area of concern is Truss, but as an astute politician, one could reasonably expect him to follow the wishes of the majority. We pay, in one way or another, a lot of money for the service CASA provides to industry; it is perhaps time CASA learned that lesson; once and for all. Staring with the DAS and finishing with some of the purblind fools let loose to dictate terms to industry experts, before someone else gets hurt attempting to follow their amateurish vision of how to get the job done.

Come on Warren, get on with it. The sky won't fall in; honest, it won't....

Last edited by Kharon; 28th Jul 2014 at 22:03. Reason: Not my laptop - don'tcha hate it.
Kharon is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2014, 23:31
  #962 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,370
Kharon, you forget the old saw:


"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning
to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later
in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing;
and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress
while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization."
I feel that Truss may fall for this tactic delivered by Mr. Mrdak. However unless heads roll, nothing can change.

"Minister, this changes everything!"
Sunfish is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 02:38
  #963 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 35
A recruitment company is putting together a short list of candidates for interview by a panel of CASA board members and the head of the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development Mike Mrdak
Would this be the same recruitment company that gave us McComic? FFS. The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Strainer is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 03:10
  #964 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
Strainer - Would this be the same recruitment company that gave us McComic? FFS. The more things change, the more they remain the same.
It is indeed, the last three DAS I believe. The latest from Townsville is it's down to a four horse race, under starters orders from Monday Aug.04, with 'apparently' a full board of stewards – hope they ordered a vet, a farrier and a good old St Johns crew of stretcher bearers.
Kharon is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2014, 10:13
  #965 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
Devil RED: "Miniscule the elephants are multiplying!"

While we continue to wait for the miniscule to blink the elephants in the room are happily putting on weight and some are reaching the end of a lengthy gestation period and about to multiply...

Recent arrivals to the miniscule elephant herd...

ATC/Defence elephant update: Apparently VIPA have made a donation to the feeding of this elephant, not that it was needed as this elephant was already off the scales in terms of weight gain:
Virgin pilots call for air traffic control inquiry

One of the unions representing Virgin Australia pilots has called for a government inquiry into Australia’s air traffic control systems.

The Virgin Independent Pilots Association (VIPA) says federal infrastructure minister Warren Truss needs to hold a comprehensive and independent inquiry into the management of Australian airspace.

VIPA executive director Simon O’Hara says the government needed to look at the “extent that we may need to examine one traffic control system for Australian airspace”.

“VIPA is now calling on Minister Truss to review and replace the current ATC system with a new air traffic system which better manages the separation of aircraft in controlled airspace,” O’Hara said in a statement.

An Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) report released in October 2013 found a higher rate of loss of separation (LOS) incidents at airports where air traffic control was administered by military air traffic services (ATS).

“Military ATS were involved in a disproportionate number of loss of separation occurrences involving civilian aircraft in terminal area airspace relative to the amount of traffic they control,” the ATSB report said.
“Military ATS are responsible for about 25 per cent of the aircraft movements in terminal areas, but were involved in 36 per cent of LOS occurrences in terminal areas.”

O’Hara said VIPA was deeply concerned by the report’s findings, which highlighted a number of serious safety issues regarding Australia’s current ATC system.

“Safety is paramount for Australian airline passengers and the government cannot continue sit on this report for any longer,” O’Hara said.
“The Minister must act before it’s too late.”
International war zone overflight elephant: In typical miniscule style this elephant was summarily dismissed as being someone else’s problem:
The International Air Transport Association said this week governments needed to take the lead in reviewing how airspace risk assessments were made.

Chief executive Tony Tyler said airlines and governments were partners in supporting global connectivity, with governments and air navigation providers telling airlines the routes they could fly and with what restrictions.

He said airlines complied with that guidance and this was the case with MH17, which had been shot down “in complete violation of international laws, standards and conventions while broadcasting its identity and presence on an open and busy air corridor at an altitude that was deemed to be safe”.

However, Australia has been lukewarm on the FSF call, with Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss saying it is too early to make judgments. Mr Truss said he was not sure there was a lack of information and he believed it would be difficult to put in place rules and laws guaranteeing a greater level of security.

“If there are deficiencies in the current system presumably that will be identified to some extent in the inevitable inquiries that will follow this event,’’ he said.
However after the ICAO/IATA meeting yesterday there are now additional calls from IATA/ICAO for the miniscule to take custody of this fast growing baby Dumbo:

MH17 tragedy 'exposed gap' in safety procedures, admits aviation industry

IATA Chief Tony Tyler again:
“This is the responsibility of states,” he said. “There are no excuses. Even sensitive information can be sanitised in a way that ensures airlines get essential and actionable information without compromising methods or sources.”

“This is all far from the authoritative, accurate, consistent, and unequivocal information needed to support effective decisions on such an important issue,” Mr Tyler said. “Governments must do better.”
Even the TWU is pointing the accusatory finger at the government, the miniscule & his Dept Head RED :
Transport Workers Union national secretary Tony Sheldon, who represents aviation workers, said airlines should reroute flights away from world conflict zones and the government should ensure Australian aircraft complied with global safety warnings.

“The ultimate decision on air routes is being made by the airlines themselves,” he said. “And that means cost will always be calculated against risk. Air safety warnings should not be subject to this kind of economic calculation.”
TICK..TOCK miniscule, I mean really "how much can a Koala Bear??"

MTF…

{Side issue on airlines overflying war zones: Contrary to Emirates the Red Rat has decided to continue to overfly Iraq: Qantas to fly where Emirates fears to go, but for how long?

Which kind of places FF in an interesting conundrum after deciding to get involved in the media hype post MH17: Advice on Eastern Ukraine airspace}
Sarcs is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2014, 10:45
  #966 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
Here is the link to ICAO's release today;

Joint Statement on Risks to Civil Aviation Arising from Conflict Zones

Sarcs, you can be rest assured that Fort Fumble will have a lineup of delegates also attending the next special convening in February 2015. But in the meantime will the Regulator and it's resident airspace executive Herr Cromarty be doing anything of value in relation to the current concerns? What do the Regulatory experts think about QF's decision? Not much I imagine. Even if they thought the Rat was making a bad call they don't have the testicular fortitude to take decisive action. Now, if it was a wayward Helo pilot, that would be different.......

CAsA will, as always, do very little, if anything. As for QF's decision, well that comes as no great shock. However I do wonder what the FAA would think of QF using that parcel of airspace with perhaps dozens of American citizens/tourists/business people/grey nomads onboard?

Tick tock Miniscule, the scene of the world is changing rapidly and you silly old plonkers are still stuck in the 1960's timewarp!

TICK TOCK

Last edited by 004wercras; 30th Jul 2014 at 10:48. Reason: Hypothesising as to whether Wodger mentions MH17 during tonight's 'lecture'?
004wercras is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2014, 20:57
  #967 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
Just so stories – Kipling, eat your heart out.

What is it with Transport miniscule's and elephants; that fool Albo let them breed as and where pleased, he even hired an trained expert to assist with process. You'd think Blinky Bill would have got at least some of the mess cleaned up by now.

It's all very well keeping elephants; we are always happy to have the Gobbledocks mighty beast to stay over when he's off on a secret mission for the IOS or Willyleaks; but the mess is appalling and takes some shifting.

It's also very cruel to keep them locked and chained in an office, even one with pot plants; perhaps the IOS should start a campaign to have the gu'ment elephants released after vet examination, that way the public could enjoy the show. I'm sure they would be delighted to see the produce of an intense, carefully managed breeding programme.

There now; nice new page for them as wants it.

Toot toot.-.
Kharon is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2014, 22:19
  #968 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
Dougy is early but in the know??

004...

"...Hypothesising as to whether Wodger mentions MH17 during tonight's 'lecture'?.."

Good question perhaps we should ask the panel facilitator Dougy for an appraisal of Wodgers performance...:

Panel Discussion at 18:30
“Contemporary Aviation Safety Issues

Panel facilitated by Doug Nancarrow, Editor Aviation Business

Although I somehow doubt whether MH17 would be at the forefront of Wodger's cranium as he seems to be stuck in the past and currently in the nines..:

Synopsis: On 19 July 1989 United Airlines Flight 232 experienced loss of all hydraulic systems as a result of the catastrophic failure of the number 2 engine. The crew and a check captain who was a passenger on the aircraft worked together as a team to exert a semblance of control over the aircraft despite not having been trained for the specific event, and subsequently made a somewhat controlled landing at Gateway Airport, Sioux City, Iowa. Despite the loss of 111 passengers and crew, 185 persons survived this event thanks to the teamwork of the crew.

On 1 June 2009, Air France Flight 447 experienced inconsistencies in air speed measurement over the Atlantic Ocean as a result of the pitot tubes being obstructed by ice crystals. The crew reacted incorrectly and ultimately the aircraft entered an aerodynamic stall which was not recovered. Tragically 228 persons lost their lives.
I also noticed that Dougy was early with his weekly insight....perhaps it had something to do with the upcoming evening's festivities...

Oh well since Dougy's piece is extremely topical, given the last couple of posts, I've decided to copy (almost) in full (apologies in advance DN have chopped the Airnorth correction and the plug for your mate..):
Editor's Insights 31st July 2014
30 Jul 2014
Doug Nancarrow

Interviews for the Director of Safety position at CASA are being held early next week and I understand there are five candidates. The appointment of the DAS was to be by the CASA board, but that’s not complete yet so it’s likely the Chairman and new Deputy Chairman will be representing the board on the interview panel. And there’s bound to be some Departmental representation. Maybe we can expect a quick decision on this critical appointment. The industry watches with great interest and not a little apprehension.

Media debate about Qantas declaring that it’s safe to fly over Iraq is bordering on the irresponsible. And calls for airlines to make public their flight paths are fair enough but it may be something that’s difficult to deliver. If the public expectation becomes absolute safety then how can that expectation be met? When is a zone of unrest acceptable at 33,000ft and when is it not? If there’s actual armed conflict of any degree? Routes between South East Asia and Europe are going to be hard to find if there’s total exclusion from areas of uncertainty.

I mean where does the need-to-know thing stop if we start to head in this direction? Should the captain’s medical record be made available to the passengers of a particular flight? What about the maintenance records for the aircraft?

We have to maintain a culture of confidence in our airlines so that they are trusted to make decisions in the best interests of all.

The thing that (hopefully) makes the MH17 case unique is the supply of hard-core anti-aircraft weapons by the Russian military (and hence government). Common sense and good judgement need to be utilised in making decisions about safe air routes. Let’s hope that‘s what the current powwow involving ICAO, IATA, CANSO and other groups on this subject takes into account.

We’re taking a thorough look at the regional airline industry in the next print issue of Aviation Business, which will be with you in early September.

Did you realise that 16 regional airlines have gone out of business in the last 10 years? I didn’t until I stopped to count them. That’s a pretty tragic toll and it’s surely worth looking at the state-of-the-nation for that industry sector. If you have a perspective you’d care to share with me I’ll be happy to consider including it in the coming report.
"The industry watches with great interest and not a little apprehension."

Certainly got that right...

MTF...
Sarcs is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2014, 23:20
  #969 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 212
Three military types on the shortlist including the head of ADFA I believe...
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2014, 20:43
  #970 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
A moment in history. Our current DAS is the only one to be refereed by the Senate to the AFP, and opinions are big on the Movement of Privilege by the Senate! What an achievement!!
Indeed, a fine thing to include on ones CV, listed after 'Star Chamber member'. Is there a section on ones CV template to include 'bad temper' and 'bullying'?
I hope all of this is included in his LinkedIn profile, only 4 weeks to go and he will be 'on the market'!!
Caveat emptor

Last edited by 004wercras; 31st Jul 2014 at 20:45. Reason: Counting down the days on my calendar! Bye bye Herr Skull
004wercras is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2014, 21:04
  #971 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,370
If its true that the military are going to take over again, I'll slash my wrists now. CASA needs someone to go in and clean house with a chainsaw.

A "process queen" or "sensitive and nuanced cultural change" type is going to be eaten alive.

Heads have to roll, fast. Then you need to find simplicators to cut through the miles of legal bullshit and give us something like the FAA/NZ regulations
Sunfish is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2014, 21:18
  #972 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
Good call Sunny, herewith my CV humbly tendered in application for the position. (Is that ten).

Kharon is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 00:40
  #973 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 302
What's Ralph Norris doing nowadays?
bankrunner is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 02:00
  #974 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
AHIA weigh in.

Flawed safety laws must be stalled, says helicopter association

ROB RICH Comment
August 01, 2014 12:00AM
AUSTRALIAN Helicopter Industry Association president Peter Crook has written to Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss to request Civil Aviation Safety Regulation Part 61 not be implemented on September 1, just 20 working days from now.

CASR Part 61 (Flight Crew Licensing) became law on February 14 last year with a start date of December 4 that year and a four-year transition period ending on December 3, 2017. However, little could be done until the Manual of Standards (MoS) was released in June last year with a comment *period of 11 weeks.

It was quickly noted that helicopter operators would suffer more than their aeroplane cousins as the need to include instrument familiarisation training and integrated and non-integrated *courses (the former not yet designed) would be an expensive compliance exercise. Furthermore, the AHIA working group struggled with the need to make the MoS line up with the parent instrument (regulation). Many of these issues are still a “work in progress”.

Prior to the December deadline, the AHIA briefed senator David Fawcett and indicated CASA was not yet ready to introduce the flight crew licensing rules, despite claims to the contrary by CASA.

As a result, CASR Part 61 was deferred to September 1. However, a number of industry associations requested it be further deferred as the legislation needed to be in the “three-tier format”. The third tier is a guide in plain English. This has not occurred.

An AHIA CASR Part 61 review committee member said the flight testing regime required by the new rules would require a large increase in flight examiners at a time when the industry was already short of qualified testing officers. CASA’s capacity to approve more testing officers is limited. We have been advised that CASA’s intent not to grant its flight operations inspectors flight testing approvals, due to the cost of maintaining an individual’s qualifications, will only exacerbate the problem.

CASA has no implementation plan in this regard and this has the potential to seriously impact the capacity of the industry to function, particularly in the emergency service support, fire and aerial agriculture operations.
The only solution offered by CASA’s officers is the promise of concessions. But if new legislation needs such concessions upon implementation, it is fundamentally flawed. How can operators manage our risk if we don’t even know what the concessions are? Those concessions should be published well in advance so the industry can scrutinise them.

The industry also refutes CASA claims that the changes are “like-for-like’’ and only a restructure. That is not true. An example is the requirement for firefighting pilots to hold a firefighting rating. No such requirement currently exists and it is an additional operational and financial burden on the industry, and not a restructure.

Some of the syllabus items in the MoS encourage unsafe practices and in some instances are technically incorrect.

For individuals and organisations to manage their risk, concessions will also have to be given so these unsafe practices can be removed as a requirement of a *rating being issued. An example is the potential for serious accidents when people attempt to demonstrate and practise a rotor-blade stall.

Anecdotal evidence indicates that very few people understand the content and the impact of these changes. This supports the argument that the proposed legislative elements are badly written and too complex.
One senior instructor said: “Now imagine a student pilot preparing for an air law examination based on the new regulations. If nobody understands them, then who can teach them? What hope do you have of passing?”
Rob Rich is the secretary of the Australian Helicopter Industry Association.

Dear Minister,

Urgent Request to Defer CASR Part 61

The initiative for the Aviation Safety Regulation Review was applauded by the Aviation Industry. The release of the report was welcomed by the Industry and by-in-large accepted as read. The industry was asked for comment which has been provided. Since the deadline for comment, the silence has been deafening.

I personally have been in the Aviation Industry, as a pilot, company co-owner, manager, sales representative for 51 years. Never in this time have I seen such turmoil and mistrust in the Regulator.

As President of the Australian Helicopter Industry Association, I am very concerned with the difficulties our CASR Part 61 Regulatory Review Team, and others, are having with understanding the muted changes to this Regulation. The introduction of a completely new licensing system together with new training syllabuses, with no perceived safety benefits, but additional cost, in the current “Two Tier” format is not understood. Legislation needs to be in the “Three Tier” format, in plain English and not in the Criminal Code format which is understood by Judges but not Aviators.

As this third tier has not yet been introduced we, the Australian Helicopter Industry, respectfully request the introduction of CASR Part 61 be further delayed to allow time for Industry to negotiate the proposed changes further with CASA. Why introduce a Regulation which will require concessions to operate until the Regulation is in the proper format, should it not be fixed prior to introduction on 1 September 2014?

Regards
Peter Crook
President
Australian Helicopter Industry Association
Also reported on by Oz Flying..:AHIA Moves to Stall Part 61

Hmm...the minuscule IN TRAY must be almost overflowing right about now...

MTF..

Last edited by Sarcs; 1st Aug 2014 at 05:28.
Sarcs is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 06:22
  #975 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
Ben Cook has now gone to Work for Transport Victoria. A gain for them, but still a loss for aviation. A guy that knows the military and commercial side of aviation safety and human factors was allowed to walk out CAsA's door
Would be nice to see CAsA hold on to the good people, must be a reason for the departures? As halfmanhalfbiscuit pointed out, since 2010 all the good guys have bailed, and continue to bail......

Tick Tock Miniscule, Tick Tock pumpkin head, Tick Tock Chairman Hawke

Last edited by 004wercras; 1st Aug 2014 at 11:30.
004wercras is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 22:31
  #976 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 91
And for the average person on the street and the media the use of acronyms makes the statement meaningless. What difference will unattributed signs make that 19 fatalities at Lockhart River and two Senate inquiries haven't yet made?
Lookleft is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 23:23
  #977 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
"eternity" is similarly meaningless but is etched in Sydney history.


Apart from posing nothing as an alternative except Lockhart River, which to the average pedestrian is similarly meaningless, can we assume you don't agree with the sentiment expressed.


Personally I can't see how it hurts anybody except those who take offence, and they know what it means.


Oh, and "Bill Posters". Everybody is out to get him.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 23:52
  #978 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 91
For a start the gentleman who expressed his faith on the streets of Sydney got his message writ large on the Harbour Bridge at the turn of this century so I think he actually succeeded in getting his message across.

The photo of the poster has no context. It could be on someone's bedroom door for all we know.

Finally George W if you're not for us you're against us? Wake up to yourself Frank. I don't have to tie my colours to any ill conceived protest movement through your attempts to "shame" me into submission.

Outside of the State of NSW, ICAC is something you blow out of your nose and for the majority of Australians CASA is probably Spanish for something. My point once again for the dull of mind was that if 19 deaths in an aeroplane is not enough to stir the public consciousness then posters with no context is just silly.

Last edited by Lookleft; 2nd Aug 2014 at 00:14. Reason: You can't blow something into your nose!
Lookleft is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2014, 00:54
  #979 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
I just don't get your stance on things. In the past, creampuff and I used to cross swords regularly until I got the drift that he was playing "devils advocate". He directed the subject matter into more positive territory. You will note now we rarely have issues except when boredom sets in and I get an urge to chuck a rock at him. When you post you criticize, but don't lead the thread anywhere which leads others including myself to question your motives. It's not "them and us", there is a group of individuals beholden to CAsA for their existence and have become hostages to a Stockholm syndrome. These people are more dangerous to any "ill conceived protest movement" than the CAsA themselves. I hope you are not one such individual, I sincerely do.


"Ill conceived protest movements" have made more inroads to reform than snipers sitting on the sidelines taking out individuals and disrupting threads. Do you really think the Senate would have acted without input from many of the PPRuNe posters? Do you think Truss wouldn't have attempted to gazump the Senate with a "review" that garnered hundreds of submissions, many from PPRuNe posters? Would the IOS have been seen as significant enough for The skull to brand them "ills of society" and mendacious bloggers"? Would the ill conceived protest movement have had enough impact for someone to post bills accusing CAsA of being corrupt? (no matter how valuable the advertising message).


Out of interest, exactly what is your agenda?


Incidentally, the "eternity" message, although blazing in glory on the bridge, is still lost on me. What exactly was his message, other than it was a message. (Probably extraterrestrial).
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2014, 01:26
  #980 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 91
Because its Saturday its too cold to be outside and I am taking a break from more serious matters let me go through your points Frank.

In the past, creampuff and I used to cross swords regularly until I got the drift that he was playing "devils advocate". He directed the subject matter into more positive territory. You will note now we rarely have issues except when boredom sets in and I get an urge to chuck a rock at him.
Creampuff and I are rarely in disagreement, what does that tell you? What is the difference between chucking rocks and sniping?

It's not "them and us", there is a group of individuals beholden to CAsA for their existence and have become hostages to a Stockholm syndrome. These people are more dangerous to any "ill conceived protest movement" than the CAsA themselves. I hope you are not one such individual, I sincerely do.
You have asked that question before in a PM. I don't work for CASA. Look at my postings. There are about 750 odd scattered around Pprrune so its fairly easy to work out my background and current employment.

"Ill conceived protest movements" have made more inroads to reform than snipers sitting on the sidelines taking out individuals and disrupting threads. Do you really think the Senate would have acted without input from many of the PPRuNe posters? Do you think Truss wouldn't have attempted to gazump the Senate with a "review" that garnered hundreds of submissions, many from PPRuNe posters?
Making a submission to Senate inquiries and posting on PPRuNe are two separate activities. I don't think PPRuNe has that much influence and I'm sure the Mods don't think so either. Senators are serious people doing serious things, they don't rely on Bulletin Boards to inquire into serious matters. I have met some of the people who were advising Senator X. They weren't wearing IOS t-shirts or quoting PPRuNe, so the answer is no.

Would the IOS have been seen as significant enough for The skull to brand them "ills of society" and mendacious bloggers"? Would the ill conceived protest movement have had enough impact for someone to post bills accusing CAsA of being corrupt? (no matter how valuable the advertising message).
We all think McCormick is unhinged so why would what he thinks be of any relevance? Given the lack of context for that photo of the poster I really think it has no more impact than Jinglie's t-shirt and as Jinglie posted the picture, I would not be surprised if the origins of the poster are closely linked.

Out of interest, exactly what is your agenda?
Don't have one Frank. I'm just an observer. Why do you think everyone needs an agenda? Having a different point of view does not imply agenda. Asking people to be accountable for what they post does not imply agenda. When others want to go bare knuckle on the keyboard and I choose to respond does not imply agenda. I don't do sudoku I post on PPRuNe, thats as basic as it gets.

I assume your last statement was a thought bubble so I'll leave you with it. Have a good weekend.
Lookleft is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.