Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 3rd Jun 2014, 13:50
  #741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sydney Harbour
Posts: 312
004,

What parts of CASA would you take an axe to?
Dangly Bits is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 14:05
  #742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 49
Posts: 547
The worm farms and pot plants should go through robust transformational change to ensure value for money for stakeholders and safety reasons can't argue with safety. Localized pot plants are safe pot plants.

Some pot plants could be donated to deserving senators with small pot plant allowances.
halfmanhalfbiscuit is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 14:33
  #743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: have I forgotten or am I lost?
Age: 66
Posts: 1,129
when you look at the influence ICAO has had on CAsA and you look at the huge areas of aviation that ICAO seem totally ignorant of, I have come to the conclusion that ICAO must be one of the dumbest organisations on the planet.

how can you dictate how countries regulate aviation while not even acknowledging that a great part of it even exists.

of course ICAO exist above government control so there is no sorting out their stupidity.

australia really is becoming a country I could permanently migrate from.

maybe for the next year we should all send minister truss an AA battery each week. inundate him with them. ....because a dildo(like him) should never be used without a fresh battery.
dubbleyew eight is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 14:40
  #744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: have I forgotten or am I lost?
Age: 66
Posts: 1,129
minister truss this is just plain stupid....

Risk in GA operations is generally proportional to the consequences: risk becomes greater as the number of persons carried on the aircraft increases, but given that operations are of small aircraft, there are usually few persons on the aircraft, lowering the risk.
the risk is on a per aircraft basis. the number of persons carried only changes the risk if your evaluation of risk is flawed.
you need to do better mate.
dubbleyew eight is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 14:44
  #745 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: have I forgotten or am I lost?
Age: 66
Posts: 1,129
this is quite wrong minister....

Education and awareness building activities are also key to the lifting of safety standards in the private GA sector.
the problem is that the sheer volume of dribble emanating from CAsA actually masks and obscures the actual issues and has people thinking that irrelevant issues are most important.

....but then you wouldn't know....
dubbleyew eight is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 14:52
  #746 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: have I forgotten or am I lost?
Age: 66
Posts: 1,129
in all honesty minister you haven't a bloody clue....

in self administration you say..
The success of these groups is highly dependent on the governance, efficiency and knowledge of their governing bodies and it is on these areas that CASA has to concentrate its oversight activities.
you really haven't a clue.
the success comes from the competence of the participants not any organisational structure you bureaucratic paper shufflers impose on them.
I know, you're a hammer so all the world is a nail.
dubbleyew eight is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 20:53
  #747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
Oh, it's not that bad; not too bad at all.

It's a strange wee confection, is the WLR. But before having a taste there are some formalities to observe.

I believe I could be persuaded to elevate The Honourable Warren Truss MP from miniscule to minister provided the promised changes are enforced (no other option really). The minister could have so very easily done an Albo and delivered a soft white paper elephant; but didn't. No matter the motivation - a promise was made and kept; a report was ordered and delivered. What the unspeakable Albo left behind for the minister to deal with was seriously ugly. The situation was disgusting enough on the surface and only the gods could know what was floating beneath. I sometimes forget that parliament is a stage show, there's that which the audience see and 'that what goes on' backstage. The minister (and team) must deal with both sides of the finished production. So, no matter what opinion you have of the show, one must acknowledge the investment, hard work and risks. Tricky thing, pleasing all the people, all the time. In short, this IOS member says 'thank you' to the member for Wide Bay.

Of course the minister was juggling hot coals: but not for too long. Said coals were dropped into the capable, heavily gloved hands of D Forsyth. Esq. and his merry men. Once again the options were open and the report could have gone either way. Realistically, the report could never, ever be a silver bullet, especially as the options for a band aid solutions became severely limited. Referee Forsyth stepped up as the scrums became fierce, and turned nasty. Cynicism and pragmatism aside, I reckon Forsyth has managed a difficult task quite well indeed. I propose D Forsyth Esq. be elevated to associate IOS membership and call on the Gobbledock to second the motion. Bravo that man, well done.

The final accolade must be for the industry – great job. Clarity, cohesion and the courage to say – enough is enough – has won some hard earned yards, some self respect and a positive place to start. Great start to the match from the alphabet groups and individuals. Bravo, bravo indeed; well played. Now is not the time to back off, play up and play dirty in the ruck. The opposition will, for the whole 80 minutes. Selah.

I digress. The report. I feel it would be a mistake to 'shoot from the hip' on this report and a quick skim of the executive summary won't do, not at all. As said, it's a strange confection. There are parts which, to me at least, are 'stilted'. These parts reflect the difficulty of writing a report which very publicly exposes some of the government 'sensitive' parts and the difficulties facing the industry, combined with a hysterical press and uninformed public. Changes in syntax clearly define the sensitive areas where the panel has been obliged to tread very carefully; but the message is there and well done for being able to keep that message in play.

Anyway you look at it, the report is a positive step. It sends a clear message, now it will be up to the industry, incoming DAS, Minister and Senate team to make sure it works out: the way it was intended. I do agree with Sandilands; McComic should be escorted from building at the earliest opportunity before an abuse of considerable power is used to pay old scores. I am certain Forsyth could manage to find a night watchman, caretaker if you like, for the next short while. IMO - McComic must be considered 'armed and dangerous', capable, with malice and aforethought of inflicting terrible damage; any of the 49 'ers will confirm this opinion. His batting partner Dolan is out in July anyway (hallelujah) and although he is relatively harmless; the two of them together do frighten the horses and terrify the smaller children. Anyway – why stay where no one wants you?

Once you find your way past the top 'fluff' and bottom waffle, there are about 40 pages to read which are powerful; given the report must be framed in 'understatement', diplomatic and comprehensible to those outside of industry vaguely interested. If we achieve all the recommendations, undiluted, properly executed; it will be a great step taken out the darkness toward the light.

Page 70). Throughout this report, the Panel recommends changes that, if actioned, will contribute to the rebuilding of trust between the industry and CASA. Changing its regulatory philosophy is the most important shift that CASA must make. Coupled with a much stronger policy towards just culture, the Panel considers that the relationship between CASA and industry can reach a level of maturity where, as in many of the countries identified in Table 5, regulator access to safety data is no longer controversial.
Page 72). Although the Swedavia-McGregor Report was completed 25 years ago, the principles are still relevant today. The Panel considers that CASA should adopt an organisational structure similar to that developed for New Zealand, with modifications to suit the size and scope of the aviation community in Australia. The transformation envisaged in this concept, which is intended to structure CASA along the lines of industry’s activities (a client-oriented output model) rather than CASA’s activities, is depicted in Figure 8. Many variations of such a model are possible, and the proposal is not prescriptive. However, the key intention is to clarify accountability and improve the points of contact for the aviation community.
Okey-dokey – Seconds away – Gloves off - Round two.

Last edited by Kharon; 3rd Jun 2014 at 21:17.
Kharon is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 21:54
  #748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,483
Firstly, thank you Minister Truss. I haven't read the entire report yet, just the executive summary but I believe that the review has delivered all that could reasonably be expected.

Without mincing words, the key finding is that the entire culture of CASA is toxic. Toxic to industry and toxic to its good staff. That is what words like "adversarial", "trust", "respect", "governance" and "just culture" strongly imply. All else follows from that. The question of adoption of FAA/NZ regulations is a bridge too far at present, but I would think it may naturally surface later if the rest of the changes are implemented.

However there's the rub; these are only recommendations and it is now up to the Government to respond and implement change.........

I personally would hope that a very senior person from Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet drives the Governments response and adopts all the recommendations and then some. I would also hope that the same person is appointed to the CASA Board with a mandate to drive change. I would also hope that the new Director is made responsible to the Board as in other organisations.

Make no mistake, the job of the New Director is going to be very, very difficult without total support of the Board, the Department and the Government because driving organisational change is notoriously difficult to do,especially breaking the alleged "iron ring" at the heart of the problem.

On the other hand, I suspect if Mr. Mrdak and company have drafted the governments response then any change at all will be cosmetic and the embuggerisation of all industry participants will continue unabated.

The ball is in the Governments court, we have to wait and watch.

P.S. Mc Cormick? Finished. Dolan the same.

PPS. Why was the Pel AIr ATSB report an "aberration"?
Sunfish is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 00:52
  #749 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
PPS. Why was the Pel AIr ATSB report an "aberration"?
The review panel felt that the shitty Pel Air investigation was a 'one off' poor investigation, something 'out of character', something that is 'unlikely to happen again'. To that I say PONY POOH. Since mi mi mi Beaker took the reigns the many accident reports have become light weight and 'politically correct', some are even farcical. The ATsB still has a number of skilled, intelligent investigators and analysts at the coal face (thank god), but it is the decision making at the top level, the accountant decisions, the slicing, dicing, dissection and changing of investigator reports after they are completed so as to release a more kinder, less critical softly softly response that has become a major issue. The top layer and its 'beyond all sense and reason' approach has to go, warts and all. Let the guys and gals at the core shine again, please ....

Dangly, I don't have enough bandwidth to list all the sections I would take the axe or wrecking ball to, but at a minimum;

- Bring in 'accountability' and remove protective legal freedom from prosecution for CAsA employees
- Replace all 3 DAS positions and a number of the Executives. (I won't name names but members of the IOS and government know who the stumbling blocks are)
- Keep the Board numbers at 4. No need for 2 more, but replace the current 4 with aviation experienced Board members who come with reputations of integrity.
- Changes to the way the ICC operates have been recommended thank god, but the present system is stacked and in my opinion a complete shonk. A complete overhaul and appointment of someone like Michael Hart is imperative.
- Complete removal/redundancy of the 'Iron Ring' has to proceed if a new CAsA that works harmoniously with industry is to be achieved. We know who they are. Time to change position descriptions and out these destroyers once and for all. You can't build a house if half of CAsA builds up a row of bricks while another part of CAsA pulls down 2 rows.
- Up skilling of management and inspectors in modern practises and not bureaucratic dark age methods is required.
- Transparency and equality with the application of rules and activities among the industry. As Sunny would put it in another way - If you are prepared to smash GA or an Ag operator for something then you should be able to bollock the big end of town as well. We all know that certain carriers are 'untouchable'.
- KPI's (which has been recommended). And penalties toward CAsA for breaking SLA's. Where a business is financially crushed due to CAsA incompetence there should be a method for repatriation and costs awarded.
- An end to the abuse of taxpayer funds and the never ending bottomless tin of money that funds endless legal pursuits of innocent people due to no better reason than a few egos and some pride has been dented. This is sanctioned government accepted abuse.
- Annual ANAO and other accepted audits of CAsA finances and expenditure, legal activities, due processes, ethics, procedures, compliance with statutory laws and the Chicago convention.
For starters......
004wercras is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 01:13
  #750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
If Pelair was an aberration, so was Whyalla. Should I mention Lockhart River, Seaview Monarch etc?


The ball has hit the net. It's not in anybody's court until the industry response is served and recommendations are subsequently adopted or not.


Change has occurred due to the IOS efforts, the most major demonstration of direct action by industry and players in my living history. I've been around since 1965 and never seen anything like it. Of note there has been no public disobedience or disorder and only the antagonist in this case can be seen to be guilty of abuse of power leading to a complete vote of no confidence by industry and highlighted in the recommendations.


This is a hiatus and it can be seen as pivotal whether we go up or down. Much thought and input is needed by industry and now would be a good time to mend old wounds, put ego's aside and unite all aviation interests to support a reply with a common theme that best fits the positive recommendations.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 01:26
  #751 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 106
The only changes recommended that are likely to be acted upon is appointing more people to positions of power within the ATSB and CASA! An extra Commissioner for the ATSB who has significant aviation experience! Why not just replace the one we have at the moment? At the end of the day the industry has yet another report with yet more recommendations which the government of the day can choose to implement or ignore. Like the two Senate reports before it the recommendations show how far behind the rest of the world CASA is. One of CASA's primary roles is auditing yet the report states that it doesn't even do that properly and should get 3rd party contractors to help it out.

Watching these reports being wheeled out is like watching announcements from AJ about how he is going to turn QF around. Until something catastrophic happens it will be BAU, then it will be "how could something like this happen in Australia?" As one of the regular posters is fond of stating TICK TOCK!
Lookleft is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 03:51
  #752 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
Right on cue...

From page 2 of The Australian dated 4 June 2014
… Mr Truss said the replacement of current CASA head John McCormick … and the creation of two new board positions would herald a “new start” for CASA. …
And the funniest part is that most of you will fall for it (again).
Creampuff is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 03:59
  #753 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
MMSM: While SC is away AK comes out to play!!

Put it in context Creamy...

SC from the Oz is silver tailing it with IATA...meanwhile his fill in AK steps up to the plate...

CASA faces change as it loses trust
The Australian |
June 04, 2014 12:00AM

Anthony Klan

THE nation’s air safety regulator is set for the biggest overhaul in decades after a government review found that relations between it and the airlines had soured to the point that safety improvements were being stifled.

The Aviation Safety Regulation Review, conducted by aviation veteran David Forsyth, has called for sweeping reforms of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, claiming the regulator’s “hard-line approach” to enforcement was inappropriate and had led to a lack of trust between it and operators.

Federal Transport Minister Warren Truss said government would now review the 37 recommendations of the report, which would probably see a large-scale overhaul in aviation safety.

“It looks like this will be a pretty fundamental restructuring of the safety regulations and if these 37 regulations are *accepted then clearly it will be the biggest shake-up in decades,” Mr Truss told The Australian yesterday. “We are looking for a quick resolution to these issues so that we can start rebuilding trust and confidence in the aviation *sector.”

Key among the recommendations was providing operators with “plain English” regulations, that CASA’s board exercise “full governance control” and the regulator change its organisational structure to a “client-*oriented output model”.

The review, commissioned by the federal government last *November, found the relationship between CASA and the industry had failed to a level which was “cause for concern”.

“In recent years the regulator has adopted an across-the-board hard-line philosophy, which in the panel’s view, is not appropriate for an advanced aviation *nation such as Australia,” the *review said.

It said the present “adversarial relationship” between regulators CASA and the Air Transport Safety Bureau, and industry, meant the “fundamental principle” of sharing safety data openly was not occurring.

Mr Truss said the replacement of current CASA head John McCormick — who will not be seeking to renew his contract which expires in coming weeks — and the creation of two new board positions would herald a “new start” for CASA. “We will deal with the recommendations in the context of the personnel who will be taking up positions over the next few months.”

CASA declined to comment on the report. (No surprises there...)


MTF...

Here you go Creamy put it on the record:
The Deputy Prime Minister has invited public and industry views on the recommendations of the report, prior to the finalisation of the Government response. Public and industry comments are being sought by close of business Monday 30 June 2014. Comments can be sent to the Department on the attached comment form.
Sarcs is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 04:06
  #754 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
You see: Even sarcs has fallen for it!
Creampuff is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 04:29
  #755 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
And the funniest part is that most of you will fall for it (again).
Not me. The review is a croc of shit. Nothing has really changed, nor will it.
BOHICA time

Cheers

Tick tock
004wercras is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 04:38
  #756 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
That’s not the attitude, 004.

The government hasn’t conducted nearly enough inquiries and hasn’t received nearly enough submissions.

The submissions to the Air Accident Investigation inquiry weren’t enough.

The Report and Recommendations from the Aviation Accident Investigation inquiry weren’t enough.

The submissions to the ASRR Panel weren’t enough.

The Report and Recommendations of the ASRR Panel weren’t enough.

Submissions now need to be made on the Report and Recommendations of the ASSR Panel.

Then there will be a Report and Recommendations made about the submissions made on the Report and Recommendations of the ASSR Panel.

Then submissions will need to be made on the Report and Recommendations made about the submissions made on the Report and Recommendations of the ASSR Panel.

It makes perfect sense.

Last edited by Creampuff; 4th Jun 2014 at 08:09.
Creampuff is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 05:44
  #757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: (Not always) In front of my computer
Posts: 350
And THEN nothing will happen.
Two_dogs is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 06:37
  #758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 666
Yes Minister
SeldomFixit is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 07:44
  #759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
Dougy's week

My week

04 Jun 2014
Doug Nancarrow

No prizes for correctly guessing what’s getting all the attention this week. The report from the Regulatory Review (Forsyth) panel hit the streets Tuesday and the reaction since then has been interesting, to say the least.

By now everyone will have digested at least the Executive Summary and the 37 recommendations.

But there’s a lot more in the Report itself.

It’s worth noting that we’ve already had the 2007 Hawke Report, the 2008 Senate Committee Inquiry and the 2009 Aviation White Paper dealing with issues with and within CASA – and some of that is repeated in this latest report; eg Industry dissatisfaction with, and alienation from, CASA.

What’s new are the specifics around the appointment of a new Director of Air Safety and governance of CASA going forward. A lot of that relates to producing a more accessible regulatory authority and it’s hard to argue against that.

It was interesting too to see that the Department of Infrastructure (Aviation) came in for a little bit of stick, with the recommendation that it should play a stronger policy role. But there was no take up of industry clamour for a separation of the rule-making and enforcement roles.

The suggestion that CASA should re-establish offices out there at the coal face (something worked exceptionally well back in the days of the CAA) is particularly welcome.

There’s no doubt this is a very good report and that the recommendations are constructive. No, they’re more than that, they are the recipe for a fully effective CASA , engaged productively with industry.

If the government fails to do anything less than drive full implementation of these recommendations then we could well be looking at yet another inquiry into our regulatory regime five years down the track.

This report provides an opportunity to restructure CASA and its relationships with the other associated entities in a way that will work better than anything we’ve had before.

Let’s not screw it up.

The other DF's...MEDIA RELEASE
"I encourage the aviation industry and others interested in this report to make their thoughts known to the Minister," Senator Fawcett said.
Sarcs is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2014, 08:01
  #760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
Raise a glass - which one is your choice!

A glass half full kind of guy (5 years);
If the government fails to do anything less than drive full implementation of these recommendations then we could well be looking at yet another inquiry into our regulatory regime five years down the track.
And glass half empty kind of guy, me;
Taking September 2014 as a 'month of change' - No more Skull or Beaker, I give it 24 - 36 months before another inquiry commences. A smoking hole should have occurred, rise in incidents, the cries of the IOS howling for a completion of the regulatory non reform program to finish, more departmental shenanigans, a damning ICAO or FAA audit will have taken place, maybe a Pot Plant revolt could have occurred or an Executive gets caught with a goat! Either way, the tautological Australian aviation game of 'round the garden' shall continue!

TICK TOCK
004wercras is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.