Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 2nd Jun 2014, 21:59
  #721 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
BRB darts night.

Interesting BRB discussion developed last evening – started off with a small ceremony to change the dart board picture (thanks Sarcs)– the old one was in a hell of a state. One of the blokes was drawing the mustachios and idly wondered about how long it should take to evaluate the Reverent Forsyth's saga. More to the point, pipes up another, is how much of it will we get see? Good question that. Eventually, some consensus was managed :-

(Q) - Should the entire WLR report be published?

Pro – want it all out there, warts and all. A mirror to reflect just how untidy things have become and taking an open, honest approach toward rehabilitation.

Con – wanted only a 'broad' summary, expecting that at least part of the report must be confidential but with the key issues and proposed solutions made public.

10 votes for publish all / 5 for an 'edited' version. (BTW the betting went the other way).

Good argument for both cases which naturally led into speculation about the time needed for the miniscule to come to terms with the report he initiated. There was enough potential ordinance from the Pel Air inquiry to lead to serious change, add the 260 odd submissions to that and even the least astute, head in the sand politico is going to realise that something – not another bloody white paper – must be done. There is good advice available to Truss, he has the Senate team; and, even if the number of rejected submissions was 90%, that still leaves 26 rock solid tomes of first class, expert advice. Which, by the by, did not cost anyone one penny piece. Anyway – it finished up with agreement that the time taken to respond is irrelevant; if the time is used to make a proper response reflecting the gravity of the situation.

Don't expect to see too much 'blood' on the public mat though, there is little chance of public executions. Consensus was to watch for the small but significant changes happening as we speak – new faces in some places and small attitude shifts seem to be reflecting what is happening behind closed doors. Murky Machiavellian hit squad on the prowl? – perhaps.

Jinglie # DAS 31 "The elephant in the room has to be Forsyth in a caretaker role. MrDak obviously trusts him.
The notion of the Rev. Forsyth as caretaker provoked much discussion and speculation. This is intriguing; one of the BRB (smartarse with an I-pad) dredged up the post. No conclusions, but it supports a rumour (more of a whisper really). I noted that no one at the estimates said anything more about this being McComics "last" estimates, other than just the flat statement. Then there is the persistent buzz that his office door is only unlocked at morning tea when the tea lady throws in a handful of iced Vovo with orders to make sure the door is firmly relocked. Mrdak put in a long day, acting as bear leader and if you noticed, he is paying close attention to what his charges are saying. Some of the 'correspondence' and unsolicited advice floating about further fuels speculation. Is it that as the beast dies of it's own malady it is lashing out blindly at anything that moves and the handlers are being very careful?.

Aye well – it's all gossip and pub yarns at the end of the day, ain't it?

Toot toot.

Last edited by Kharon; 2nd Jun 2014 at 23:22.
Kharon is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2014, 23:59
  #722 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
D-day finally here!

From HoR Daily Program...
Tuesday, 3 June 2014 12 noon

Acknowledgement of country
Prayers
Ministerial statement, by leave
Mr Truss (Deputy Prime Minister) to make a statement on the Aviation Safety Regulatory Review.
Can be viewed here or here

MTF...


Links for ASRR:

Dept ASRR page

Executive Summary

ASRR REPORT

Last edited by Sarcs; 3rd Jun 2014 at 03:01.
Sarcs is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 02:23
  #723 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Here it is.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...ve_Summary.pdf


It seems Pelair was an aberration.


First reading: recommendations need in depth analysis.
15.
19.
30 (b).
35?
37. Good news.

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 3rd Jun 2014 at 02:36.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 04:00
  #724 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,652
All I've done so far is read the exec summary and recommendations, but the two impressions that come to mind are that 1. It is surely a condemnation of the current directors performance and 2. The recommendations are really just about re-arranging the deck chairs. It is not recommending fundamental change to either CASA or the current regulations, rather further tinkering and " reform".

I think the report has failed to understand the cause, but is rather trying to treat the symptoms.

Sigh.
Old Akro is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 04:11
  #725 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
While your reading..

Ben's take so far...
Will the heads of CASA and the ATSB now resign?

Ben Sandilands | Jun 03, 2014 1:55PM | EMAIL | PRINT

The future tenure of the heads of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulator (CASA), its director of air safety John McCormick, and the chief commissioner of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) Martin Dolan should be in question after the release today of the Aviation Safety Regulation Review.

The review was commissioned by the deputy PM and Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Warren Truss in November 2013 following a Coalition commitment during last year’s Federal election campaign.

It recommends what could be described as a profound cultural change in CASA and effective regulatory reform, more than enough reasons to remove McCormick from further involvement in the safety regulator immediately, rather than in September when his term expires, and by when regulatory reforms that he was charged to make in CASA were to have been finalised.

It is critical in a detailed and clinical manner of the current culture in CASA and its relations with aviation stakeholders.

The review, chaired by David described the botched Pel-Air crash investigation by the ATSB as an aberration.

Given the ATSB chief commissioner’s unequivocal defence of that report, and its standards, and his resolute refusal to even retrieve the flight data recorder from the crash site in the sea near Norfolk Island, and the claims that it was seriously unfair to the pilot, and failed Australia’s international air accident reporting obligations, Mr Dolan should go. This afternoon if possible.

A Senate inquiry into the ATSB report found Mr Dolan’s testimony under oath was so unsatisfactory that the committee devoted a chapter of its findings to its rejection of his evidence. It also heard the director of safety at CASA, Mr McCormick, admit to withholding from the ATSB contrary to the intent of Australian law, an internal review into the Pel-Air matters which found that had CASA actually carried out its duties of oversight of the operator, the crash might have been avoided.

These were very serious disclosures that went to the heart of the integrity and quality of the public administration of air safety in this country, although they were brushed off by the previous Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Anthony Albanese.

This is what the ASRR says in its report in relation to Pel-Air.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) has been heavily criticised in Australia for its report into the 2009 ditching of a Pel-Air Westwind off Norfolk Island. Canada’s Transportation Safety Board is completing a review of the ATSB and will report shortly. The Panel considers that the Pel-Air report was an aberration, and not typical of the high standard that the ATSB usually attains.

The Panel recognises that the ATSB is putting measures in place to prevent a re-occurrence. To improve the ATSB’s governance, the Panel recommends that an additional Commissioner be appointed, with extensive aviation experience.

The panel recommends a totally different non-punitive and more collaborative relationship between CASA and the aviation industry.

The current relationship between industry and the regulator is cause for concern. In recent years, the regulator has adopted an across the board hard-line philosophy, which in the Panel’s view, is not appropriate for an advanced aviation nation such as Australia. As a result, relationships between industry and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) have, in many cases, become adversarial.

It specifically recommends different qualities in the new Director Air Safety who will replace Mr McCormick, which on any reasonable reading, makes his continued participation in the affairs of CASA unnecessary, since the review repudiates CASA’s current culture and direction.

The Panel concludes that CASA and industry need to build an effective collaborative relationship on a foundation of mutual trust and respect.

Therefore, CASA needs to set a new strategic direction. The selection of a new Director of Aviation Safety should concentrate on finding an individual with leadership and change management abilities, rather than primarily aviation expertise.

If the government is to implement the recommendations of the ASRR it will need to remove Mr Dolan from the ATSB and McMcCormick from any further engagement with CASA.

(more to come)
MTF...

Posts #835-838 Hmm...Ben & I (at least) must be reading a different report?? Hint: Try actually reading from about page 70-90 for a true flavour of this report...

Last edited by Sarcs; 3rd Jun 2014 at 05:38.
Sarcs is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 04:13
  #726 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,150
Does it make any recommendation re CASA considering the resultant cost of safety regulations? Or has been left out again? If so the Aus industry is doomed!
Dick Smith is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 04:43
  #727 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,652
Dick, I have only read the recommendations & exec summary, but it seems to focus on refining the current structure and operation rather than substantively changing it.

We might have hoped it would call for a move to the NZ regs, but its not there.
We might have hoped that it would call for a significantly different board structure, but its not there.

While the reports that the industry complains about regulatory burden, there is nothing in the recommendation that seems to address this. Indeed, its call for amendments makes me fear that the hamster wheel is about to turn again and we'll get a whole new round of regulatory reform.
Old Akro is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 05:05
  #728 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 601
Old Akro...

The report does discuss adoption of rules from another country in Option 4 at page 101, and concludes that for a variety of reasons, the option is not recommended.

I think you've summarised the report pretty well though, that is, it's focus is on refining the current structure and operation rather than substantively changing it.
SIUYA is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 05:16
  #729 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
A report, some wet lettuce and a get out of jail free card!

On a personal note I will spend a day or two reading the report and recommendations thoroughly, however at this stage after a quick skim and some vomiting, as predicted, the wet lettuce leaf has been applied. Of course Skull and Dolan copped a hiding, that's because they were already dead men walking, and we all knew that. But the Frankenstein remains intact, the beast only receives a flesh wound and the morphing of this hybrid creature will continue unabated as long as the Iron Ring remain firmly entrenched (and this report does not indicate any change within the rusty circle)
The ATsB at its core is a solid unit. The 3 Commissioners need removing and the organisation returned to its stellar self from 5 years ago.
Fort Fumble is different, it needs an enema, gutting from its neck to its privates, and that has not been recommended.
Truss remains ignorant, Kingcrat remains at the helm, and as for industry and the IOS it is BOHICA time! The countdown clock keeps ticking, nothing has changed.

TICK TOCK
004wercras is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 05:35
  #730 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
It is interesting that the ICC is to report to the new CAsA Board which I read as cutting the chain of command and by-passing the DAS. One can only hope the ICC will be chosen by the Board. I further note the AVMED mob getting a rocket will disturb some in that little 'Principality' if the DAME is the final arbiter of whether or not the pilot is fit to fly. This could have meaning to the CVD mob who are now fighting an uphill battle because of our Prince Proozac.


I think the result forms the foundation for some meaningful change and public input is still needed to ensure the good there is implemented.


One thing that worries me is the constant evolutionary change of aviation technology mixing with constant regulatory change. This could inadvertently give credibility to the RRP which has been dragging on for years. The regulations need to be re-written to contemporary needs instead of refining and redefining rules from 1945. I think there is scope there in the recommendations.


At first look I'll give it a pass mark but hold the option to reverse this when the lawyers get to work and barstardise it. We all know they will.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 07:59
  #731 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,055
Report released: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Link part way down the page to the report and Exec Summary.
CaptainMidnight is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 08:47
  #732 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,864
Dick,
The report explicitly rejects amendments to the CAA Act 1988, contrary to several previous strong recommendations.
As far as I can see so far, all that is recommended is a "strengthening of the RIS", which comes at the end of the regulation making process, not the beginning. Ergo, serious cost/benefit analysis doesn't get a look-in, let alone the principle that "regulation" is the last option, not the first.
I guess S.9 of the Act remains supreme, unless that is changed, nothing else of much importance will change.
Tootle pip!!

PS: Does this sound like CASA?? page 58 of the ASRR report.
2.4.4 If, on the other hand, the State safety oversight system is so rigorous as to amount to a complete domination and dictation of the conduct of operations, then under such an environment the civil aviation industry is not empowered with the responsibility and self-sufficiency for safe operations. This can undermine the morale of the civil aviation industry’s personnel and result in a lowering of safety standards. It could also be cost-prohibitive for the State to maintain the large enforcement organization required to sustain this level of oversight.
LeadSled is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 08:59
  #733 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Still a worry.

"The Civil Aviation Safety Authority continues to provide appropriate indemnity to all industry personnel with delegations of authority".








Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 09:25
  #734 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,383
Guess that's it, the end of any viable aviation industry in Australia.
Business in any form cannot operate or survive in a Corrupt environment, ultimately it all comes unstuck.
Failure of Gov. to recognize when and where corruption exists, and act to stamp it out puts any industry on the slippery slope.
It was wonderful while it lasted, enjoyed almost every minute of it, and very sad to see it end up like this.
RIP aviation in Australia, unfortunately the bastards won!
thorn bird is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 09:56
  #735 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: (Not always) In front of my computer
Posts: 349
All, it is not too late to have a final (unrecognised or valued) input.

The Deputy Prime Minister has invited public and industry views on the recommendations of the report, prior to the finalisation of the Government response. Public and industry comments are being sought by close of business Monday 30 June 2014. Comments can be sent to the Department on the attached comment form.

However, I feel it's probably just flogging a dead horse ...

Despite the 260 submissions to the WLR, the 2800 posts on this forum regarding the ASRR and Senate Inquiry, (read by those that matter) from many more learned and eloquent than I, I feel it will truly take a smoking hole in the ground to elicit any change.
.
Many thanks to the many aforementioned contributors (you know who you are) to the two ongoing threads for your valiant efforts. Also, many thanks to the Senate members who tried so hard to have industry concerns heard. I wonder where you get the strength to carry on after such ignorance.

Me... I'm off to EnZed.

Last edited by Two_dogs; 3rd Jun 2014 at 10:08.
Two_dogs is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 11:07
  #736 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: have I forgotten or am I lost?
Age: 66
Posts: 1,129
from the executive summary...

19. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau transfers information from Mandatory Occurrence Reports to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, without redaction or de-identification.

well no more confidential incident reporting. that'll save the system thousands of dollars.

....just what are they thinking??

in the full report this ranks as the understatement of the decade!
While CASA is clearly aware of specific instances of industry dissatisfaction, it does not appear to fully comprehend the level or breadth of ill-feeling across all industry sectors. This lack of comprehension is especially apparent at the senior leadership level, including within the CASA Board.
do you notice throughout the report that ICAO is seen as the peak governing body and australia is a servant to it.
I thought we were a sovereign nation.

Last edited by dubbleyew eight; 3rd Jun 2014 at 12:15.
dubbleyew eight is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 11:18
  #737 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
An unsurprisingly ineffectual Report.

A bigger CASA Board and a new Messiah DAS is all that will happen in substance.

In other words, back to the future. Way back.
Creampuff is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 11:18
  #738 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
Musical chairs - Game on!

I did like this part of the Executive Summary -
'The Panel recommends returning to a third tier of regulation, removing as much detail as possible from the regulations, and using plain Language standards in the third tier'.
I don't think the Witchdoctor would enjoy seeing his contribution towards 20 years of ridiculous wording and legalese which is aimed only at persons with PHD's (probably 0.001 percent of our industry) get shit canned! Can you imagine the scowl behind that silly beard?

On a lighter and not surprising note, my sources tell me that the Buzzards are already circling internally at Fort Fumble smack above some of the carcasses, and the games have begun internally! Some in-fighting, back stabbing and manipulation, along with shoring up votes for some of the expected new positions, some bruised egos, and some with hard-on's over the prospect of getting paid more money to deliver retribution upon the IOS! What a swell place ey?? And it reminds me of an old saying that used to float through the halls of Infrastructure which was 'there is nothing more dangerous on earth than a disgruntled current or former CAsA employee'! At that, I shall rest my case.

TICK TOCK
004wercras is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 12:02
  #739 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 49
Posts: 547
Recommendation 22. Small offices at industry locations.

Bankstown, Moorabbin closures have not proved popular then.

The TSB report probably needs washing through Trim or sky sentinel a few times before release. I wonder if the TSB are in danger of joining the IOS?

004. I can imagine the goings on in casa offices. Tin hats on and keep head down.
halfmanhalfbiscuit is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 12:17
  #740 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
Hmmmm, small offices at airports hey Biccy? But what will happen to existing worm farms and ergonomic offices with robust pot plant selections? Will these be made redundant?

P.S Better wake old Terry and tell him the report has been released. He would have missed out on that news, he goes to bed at midday these days
004wercras is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.