Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 21st Nov 2013, 10:39
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NT
Posts: 706
Frank, I don't want to get into a stoush, but Creamy is right.

Entsch surfaces occasionally and sprukes platitudes, but never follows through.

Don't forget that Warren was a member of the government during the Howard years and could have had some positive influence if he had more than wind. What did he actually achieve for aviation, and GA in particular?

Zip!

All we are getting is a return to the ineffectual performances of the past.

When I look at Entsch in the context of aviation, I am reminded of Basil Fawlty rubbing the soup-spoon around Manuel's forehead, before finally smacking him on the scone, and delivering the memorable line: 'You are a waste of space.'
Howabout is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2013, 18:04
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
FNQ, myth and legend.

Whenever I hear of Wazza, FNQ and matters aeronautical all in one sentence the little bell signalling an incomplete statement pings. I always feel that words, like Swires, Anderson and a couple of others have been omitted. So then, in order to be fair to Wazza, we need to examine his rhetoric in context of the time and the political/ financial side plays which may have prevented him from carrying through. If good intentions pave the road to hell, then obedience to "party and power" must be the speed bumps.

Now Creamy is street smart and usually quick enough to pick up on the odd loose end. Perhaps, to be scrupulously fair, he could answer the following Wazza questions:-

When was the last time Wazza got up head of steam about Sleepy Hollow----and why ??

When was the last time Wazza got muzzled ------and why ??

The support in both houses seems to be there now and the big boys land/power games have settled down, who knows – he may finally get his licks in. They play rough in FNQ and all have long memories.
Kharon is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2013, 21:29
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Howabout;

Creampuff is always right, just ask him. It is his most annoying trait but he still needs focusing when it comes to the "goodies" and "the baddies". Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and I've proof the beers don't taste any worse by his company.

Entsch has form I agree, but I would wager his need of the preferential vote and sacrifice of anybody who stands in his way to get it far outweighs his now legendary hollow rhetoric. As I said previously, he is saying "SOMETHING" and we can only hope "SOMETHING" comes of it, so by definition "THAT" should be applauded.

Creampuff said:

Mr ENTSCH (11:37 AM) —I rise today to again speak on an issue that I have raised with monotonous regularity in this House regarding the competency of CASA and the way in which they are dealing with some of the operators in my electorate. I will give you two examples: one is from a company, Lip-air Proprietary Ltd, that operates out of the Torres Strait. …
This quote not only is incomplete but focuses on "crocodile tears" for an associate over a matter that had tragic consequences and bears no relevance to making the point of empty rhetoric. Perhaps if Creampuff wants to expand on his example he may tell us why this was "hollow" given Entsch's acceptance of certain votes at a Federal Election. How those votes impacted on profitable air operators and subsequent family's grief. Who was the other example mentioned in the quote?

The example is a nonsense.

It is historically provocative.

It opens wounds best left closed by expansion.

It could be argued it is bait and if so, is professionally out of order.

It redirects focus from;

the Agents Provocateurs, CASA.

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 21st Nov 2013 at 21:33. Reason: Fox in the hen house.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2013, 22:02
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
When was the last time Wazza got up head of steam about Sleepy Hollow----and why ??
So far as I am aware, Wazza has never got a head of steam up about any issue.

Lots of hot air. But no steam that I’ve seen.

Lots of posturing. But no substantial action that I’ve seen.
[T]he fact is "SOMETHING" is being said and done.
Half correct, Frank.

The fact is that, as usual, something is being said but nothing is being done.

Let me make my point another way.

Who is stopping the new government from taking real action, now, to change, fundamentally, the fabric and functioning of the air safety regulator and accident investigator?

Is it the Boogey Man?

Is it the United Nations?

Is it the Communists?

Is it the Queen?

Is it the People’s Popular Front of Judea?

Is it mesmerising mind beams sent out by evil geniuses in CASA and ATSB?

Deep down, you know the answer.

Nobody is stopping the new government from taking real action, now, to change, fundamentally, the fabric and functioning of the air safety regulator and accident investigator.

The reason the new government, like its predecessors, is choosing not to take real action, now, to change, fundamentally, the fabric and functioning of the air safety regulator and accident investigator is:

(1) It doesn’t need to. (The issue makes not a schmick of difference to the opinion polls.)

(2) It doesn’t want to. (If it actually took control, it would then be responsible for the outcome.)

(3) Even if it wanted or needed to, it wouldn’t have a clue what to do to achieve a different and better outcome. (This, ultimately, is the killer for GA in Australia.)

Frank: Sorry, but your post above is a complete nonsense.
Creampuff is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2013, 23:21
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Age: 66
Posts: 284
Creme de la cremepuff, I thought 'The Peoples Popular Front of Judea' was renamed CASA Legal Services Department a few years ago? Maybe I have been asleep at the yoke? Anyway Creamy, I subscribe to your doubt in anything significant changing at Sleepy Hollow. As long as those who 'promulgate the mystique of aviation' are allowed to stick pins in their Xenophon doll the chances of actual tangible robust change is low. A greater likelihood of change may come from an A380 belly flopping on to the Australian war memorial in Canberra, an outcome we all dread happening, but one that the IOS (and Sunfish) have been warning about from the beginning of the dark ages.

Frank, Entsch mentions 'monotonous regularity'. Well worded by the one whom I believe somebody named the 'Wild Hog'. However tautology now replaces monotonous, so if you could let the Wild Hog know that it would be appreciated. Also please ensure the Honorable Entsch refrains for talking in coded language or
uses excess shanty's, as this tends to upset the Casasexuas (jeez I am starting to sound like Kharon ).
On a serious note, Entsch may be blowing hot air and no steam, but as Frank says he is doing something, and something is better than nothing, and personally I couldn't think of a better way to relax as a politician, cruising FNQ on a Harley and whacking the knife into Fort Fumble under parliamentary privelege

P.S Who cares for CASA FNQ's pot plants? The humidity and arse covering this time if the year tends to produce vine weed and stinkhorn in abundance!

P.S.S (Warning this question has been reproduced in code to prevent legal implications). Is it true that 'someone' highly ranked in CASA is somewhat upset that his girlfriend has moved on?
Paragraph377 is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2013, 23:36
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
Beer? - "Good idea – Son".

I'd have a beer with both (or either) of you, even if just to bury the hatchet or, hold the jackets. Either way, the Wazza of old, is ancient history and not pertinent, really, is it? Anyway - Creamy always makes good, if left handed points and provokes thought; it's the nature of the beast:-

CP "The fact is that, as usual, something is being said but nothing is being done."
He omitted the 'YET' word and only time will prove Wazza's pudding.

There is a mountain to climb for these politicos. They can't (in reality) just walk in issue half a dozen taxi vouchers and have security walk the 'baddies' to the exit (much as it would be applauded). I do believe something will change, but for that to happen, the scene has to be (or not to be) set right, the actors rehearsed and all emergency exits must be cleared. Further, a platform (scaffold) to justify the changes everyone knows must happen needs to be built. So, although it is slow and tedious, I reckon the impetus for change is there. If it's not brought about through what the Polly's now know; then the soon to be terrified, disgusted public will ensure that the right changes are made.

The hope is that the 'man at the back of the room', Joe Public, never discovers the bloody awful dogs breakfast, the incredible wastage, and complete distrust the current administration have generated, all to the detriment of a sound, mostly compliant, willing to join in the safety merry-go-round industry.

Consider this, as it stands if CASA tried to rein in a 'real' rogue operator; no matter what they did or how right they were, nothing they could say or do would be believed, there is so much leverage available from 'similar' - fit up – having been established, it destroys all credibility. The massive (huge) home grown credibility gap is a major stumbling block, of their own making. The downside is that just once, they may be correct; but too many innocents have been hanged. More than any reform of the regulation, first we need to reform the regulator. At least re-establish credibility and industry trust.

ATSB? that could be fixed in a heartbeat with a stroke of a pen. But CASA needs a sensible, properly experienced hand on the helm. CASA cannot be allowed to continue as it is, there are simply too many public 'embarrassments'.

Last edited by Kharon; 21st Nov 2013 at 23:48. Reason: More like myxomatosis than myx a ma metaphors, but WTH, 'tis Friday.
Kharon is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2013, 23:36
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Who is stopping the new government from taking real action
Personally I blame The ABC.

But the real reason is the defeatist and apathetic attitude of those within the industry and the opportunistic use of that by the regulator who hides behind a mantle of "safety" for public perception.

Oh, and the "fifth column" of ex CASA functionaries and Bureaucrats who fail to look beyond their own wallowing troughs and fiefdoms.

May be so bold as to quote one, ably qualified by CASA mentoring;

[QUOTE A ‘syllogism’ is a form of reasoning in which, from two given or assumed propositions called the premisses and having a common or middle term, a third is deduced called the conclusion, from which the middle term is absent. For instance, given the major premiss: all fish live in the sea; and the minor premiss: carp are fish; it is logical to conclude that carp live in the sea.
Provided the premisses are valid, the conclusion is valid. Unassailably valid. The conclusion is unassailably valid whether it is arrived at by an idiot or a genius, a novice or an expert. [/QUOTE]

Thus an idiot can logically conclude that the premiss: all who are dismissive of attempts to bring CASA to account are employees of CASA and the minor premiss: ex CASA employees are similarly dismissive of attempts to bring CASA to account ; it is logical to assume that anybody employed at any time by CASA have been brainwashed into thinking anybody attempting to influence an outcome to bring CASA to account are the ills of society (IOS), and should be thwarted at every opportunity.

I'm the novice, you're the expert after all.

May I further be so bold as to suggest you support the good guys and denounce the bad guys. The problem for you is to determine who is the goodies and who is the baddies, not who is legally correct v who are the morally correct.

It's a pity so many in the legal profession support the left when it suits and refuse to support its social justice platforms when it comes to push and shove.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2013, 02:23
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
Thus an idiot can logically conclude that the premiss: all who are dismissive of attempts to bring CASA to account are employees of CASA and the minor premiss: ex CASA employees are similarly dismissive of attempts to bring CASA to account ; it is logical to assume that anybody employed at any time by CASA have been brainwashed into thinking anybody attempting to influence an outcome to bring CASA to account are the ills of society (IOS), and should be thwarted at every opportunity.
Your logic is impeccable.

Therefore, your ‘logical assumption’ is correct, if your premisses are valid.

Are your premisses valid?

Again, deep down, you know the answer.
May I further be so bold as to suggest you support the good guys and denounce the bad guys. The problem for you is to determine who is the goodies and who is the baddies, not who is legally correct v who are the morally correct.
May I be so bold as to suggest that the real baddies have fooled you and lots of others into believing the monkeys are the baddies rather than their organ grinders?

May I further be so bold as to suggest that my posts are intended merely to move the metaphoric spotlights to the people who, in my humble opinion, are the real baddies?

In my opinion, some of the real baddies comprise the governments which avoid doing anything about the problem.

Other people look like real baddies but probably aren’t. Rather, they’re probably just real dummies. They’re the people who waste energy arguing with the monkeys.
Creampuff is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2013, 02:25
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
"..and now a word from our sponsors the MMSM!"

Quote from Murdoch Mainstream Media clones..err drones!!

Industry anger over CASA's blame game


THE Civil Aviation Safety Authority's attempt to blame an 11th-hour decision to delay new pilot licensing rules on a lack of understanding in the industry has provoked an angry backlash.


Aviation bureaucrats were forced earlier this week to announce that the new rules, which were due to be introduced on December 4, would not come into effect until September next year.

This is despite the fact the new licensing suite came into law in February and the issue has been under review for more than a decade.

The new rules were lauded as recently as last week as one of the actions CASA was taking to tighten rules governing night flying in the wake of a crash involving an ABC helicopter.

CASA had been negotiating with the industry since February and was saying as recently as last month that the rules would not result in major changes for most pilots.

While few are upset by the delay in the new licensing suite in Parts 61, 64, 141 and 142 of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations, several industry associations have taken umbrage at the reasons given by CASA.

The authority said the primary reason for the delay was to give the industry more time to prepare.

"Despite CASA's education and information campaign on the new licensing regulations, many pilots and people working in flying training are only starting to understand the new rules," it said. "While the new regulations do not make major changes to existing practices, it is clear more time for education and information communication is required."

CASA said it received a "relatively large" number of comments and constructive suggestions after the new regulations were made in February and had subsequently proposed a package of amendments to clarify and improve the regulations.

"Due to issues beyond CASA's control it has not been possible to make these amendments before December 4," it said, adding that the new timetable would give the aviation industry the opportunity "to provide more feedback to CASA on implementation issues".

It is understood that the issues beyond the authority's control refers mainly to the September federal election and the time lost while the previous government was in caretaker mode.

However, industry associations say the changes as originally proposed by CASA were riddled with problems that the authority has been unable to address by the December start date. This included CASA having no legally binding manual of standards, and a stack of amendments that had not been incorporated, said Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia chief executive Phil Hurst.

Mr Hurst, who has been sitting on the Part 61 working group since 2000, said he had been "gobsmacked" by the reasons given by CASA, given the errors in the new rules that industry members had been correcting.
"I think it highlights the gap between where the regulatory reform program should have gone and where it's ended up," he said.

"How can a regulatory body blame the industry for not being ready when the legislative planks are not in place, such as the manual of standards?"
Despite the delay, Mr Hurst said there was "a lot of good stuff" in the new rules and AAAA had been providing briefings to its industry on the transition to the new rules for the past year.

"After all that, we really, really look forward to David Forsyth and his colleagues having a review of this and determining whether in fact it is industry that's causing all these terrible delays," he said. "We have a view on that."

Regional Aviation Association of Australia chief executive Paul Tyrrell said the delay was a sensible response to strong feedback, describing the CASA claim that industry could not understand the changes as "unfortunate".

"It appeared to lay blame completely at the feet of industry and seems to indicate the relationship has broken down between senior CASA management and industry," he said. "My understanding is the industry was just asking to have further time to implement part 61 and 141 and 142 appropriately. It just wasn't ready on both sides and I don't think there was any blame towards CASA, it was just simply to get it right."

The Australian Helicopter Industry Association, which has been heavily involved in the Part 61 process and has been working with the section head of rotor-craft standards at CASA, noted it had previously warned that the manual of standards would not be completed by December 4.

The association said its vice-president, Mark Scrymgeour, had recruited a team of a dozen top trainers to help with the manual of standards (MoS) review but it became clear there were problems that could result in smaller schools closing or abandoning training at a time when aircrew shortages were again looming, AHIA secretary Rob Rich said it probably had the biggest aviation working group handling CASR Part 61.

"By comparison, the aeroplane industry did not have as many changes to evaluate as the helicopter industry, which was required to undergo an enormous change requiring the purchase of equipment capable of instrument flight rules training," he said.

"The cost of upgrading current instructors cannot be calculated, as the latest MoS amendments are yet to be released."

...."and now it's back to the GABBA.".
Sarcs is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2013, 03:22
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Creampuff;

if your premisses are valid.
If Piscatorial terminology was the previous basis to use then they appear as valid.

Can I assume, we have identified the following possible bad guys;

1) The Government.
2) The Opposition.
3) The Minister.
4) The Regulator.
5) The Regulator/ Prosecutor/ Body that removes abilities to carry on.
6) The Defendant/ Industry.
7) The Appeals process.
8) Public perception, (and of course "our" ABC).

Now if The Senate or The Minister set up any inquiry or review that interrogates any and either or all of these entities, where would you suggest they start first. This is not a question aimed at being abrasive, but you have opinions, which we all value one way or another.

Sarcs;

The industry has good cause to be angry at being blamed for CASA's ineptitude. What the MMSM failed to cash in on was CASA's proven track record of incompetent regulatory review and waste of taxpayers money over a very long period of time.

It's time CASA pizzed or got off the pot.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2013, 17:53
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,053
61% buggered, 39% blame off load.

Is the incoming 'panel' fully prepared and briefed for what is coming at them? like it or not. If they expect an elegant little sit down to chew over, along with the shortbread and Orange Pekoe, a way to sketch around the appalling mess in which the regulatory reform has landed, then the gods help them.

Perhaps they should call for submissions first, hire a team of the quality Steven Palethorpe ran for the Senate Pel Air inquiry (superb) and then reassess the ToR. The Reg mess is merely a symptom, not the disease. The sickness is internal, deep seated and chronic. The "You can't deal with truth" quote from the movie comes to mind. The question is not can they, but will they?

Not to worry, with fantastic insight, scrupulous investigation and diligent examination of the facts; CASA have determined that whilst it is "unfortunate", the industry is at fault. (As predicted).

Amazing how the Wodgerism - "it is unfortunate" – gets up people's nose. I note the Ag boys have taken issue with the phrase in their press release. Since Wodger found the phrase useful in some of his less salubrious missives, it has been widely adopted by the GWM members who graduated from the 'plagiarise and publish" school of dodgy doings.

Now that 61 has been shelved, I wonder – can the newly hired consultant wives (brought in to assist) be kept gainfully employed during the hiatus; or will paid travel to exotic destinations (fact finding missions) be provided as a stop gap measure. Perhaps, they could be despatched to do an A 380 type rating, which seems to be very much in vogue with the 'in crowd'; although there does appear to be a minimum age limit on that rort. It's all slightly disgusting, n'est-ces pas?....

Last edited by Kharon; 24th Nov 2013 at 17:02. Reason: .Expletives deleted
Kharon is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2013, 08:10
  #52 (permalink)  
601
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Age: 73
Posts: 998
$240M and counting. What a coc*up.
I do love the spin thought. It's their fault, not ours. We just wrote it.
601 is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2013, 19:30
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
Snoop Not the Torres News...??

Well for someone that is all 'hot air', big on rhetoric..small on actions it would seem Wazza is not fazed by spreading his love of FF around a large slice of his constituents..:
Entsch to pursue CASA’s evidence to Senate hearing
By MARK BOUSEN

FEDERAL Member for Leichhardt Warren Entsch will study the transcripts of last week’s Senate Estimates Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee hearing to determine if the Parliament has been misled over facts relating to Barrier Aviation.

Mr Entsch told the
Torres News his concerns centre on the evidence before the Estimates Committee from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority under questioning from Senator David Fawcett, a former RAAF and commercial pilot.


Senator Fawcett directed numerous, probing questions to the CASA representatives about the demise of Barrier Aviation, almost 12 months ago despite a virtually exemplary record over about 20 years.

Mr Entsch says he will study the transcripts "very closely" and provided a copy to the owner of the Barrier Aviation, David Kilin, as a matter of urgency.

Senator Fawcett met with Mr Kilin recently.

Mr Entsch said: "From my understanding of CASA’s evidence, it’s in conflict with what we’ve been told by Barrier Aviation.

"It seems to be a direct contradiction to what’s been provided so far. I am very keen to peruse the entire evidence to the Estimates Committee from CASA to see if the Parliament has been misled.

"And if the Parliament has been misled, the individuals should be held accountable."

Last week’s hearing coincides with the release of the details of the independent review of aviation safety regulation in Australia.

Mr David Forsyth AM, will Chair the review panel which is expected to start taking evidence before the end of the year.

Mr Forsyth is a prominent figure in Australian aviation. He is the chair of Safeskies Australia, former chair of Airservices Australia and has over 30 years of experience in safety management and aviation business.

Mr Forsyth will be joined by Mr Don Spruston, former Director General of Civil Aviation at Transport Canada and former Director General of the International Business Aviation Council, and Mr Roger Whitefield, former Head of Safety at British Airways, former safety adviser to Qantas and former United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority board member.

Mr Entsch strongly encouraged people to come forward and give evidence to the hearing.

"This will provide a brilliant opportunity for people who believe they have been poorly treated by CASA or individuals in CASA to be heard.

"This will give them a chance to state their case about any vendettas or bastardry that they believe has been directed at them.

"It’s been a year since CASA shut Barrier Aviation down and the airline still has not had a chance to present its case.

"Barrier withdrew its recent action, simply because it ran out of money.

"There seems to be a pattern where matters are drawn out by CASA until the airlines are broken, and they do not allow them any avenue of redress."

Mr Entsch says he encourages anyone with a grievance to make a submission.

"I’ve had a lot of people contact me who have been afraid of victimisation if they speak up; this inquiry gives them an opportunity to provide evidence in camera. This will offer them anonymity and protect them from intimidating threats of defamation.

"People can be honest and frank."

Mr Entsch believes a "common thread" will emerge from the inquiry.

"The inquiry is wide-ranging and broad enough for everyone to present their case. I’m really looking forward to the review panel’s suggestions."

Barrier Aviation had operated from bases in Horn Island, Cairns, Darwin and Gove with a fleet of more than 30 aircraft and 50 staff.

According to CASA’s statement, the time lines of events are:

December 23, 2012: CASA suspends Barrier Aviation’s air operator’s certificate.

* February 22, 2013: The Federal Court of Australia made an order prohibiting Barrier Aviation from conducting operations for a set period.

March 13, 2013: CASA then cancelled the air operator’s certificate held by Barrier Aviation.

March 15, 2013: Barrier Aviation applied to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal for review of this decision.

July 31, 2013: CASA refused an application for re-issue of an air operator’s certificate.

August 14, 2013: Barrier applied to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal for a review of this decision.

October 16, 2013: Barrier Aviation withdrew its applications to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.
*
(Torres News understands the court order expired at 5pm that afternoon; meaning the court order expired on the afternoon on the day it was issued.)
Hmm..Wazza sure is no shrinking violet over his rhetorical attack on FF, maybe he is contemplating going out with a bang before riding off into the sunset on his hog..

Note: Someone from the LNP forgot to put a rope around Senator Fawcett, he seems to popping up all over the place ...from post #69
1000 - 1020 Introduction Ken Cannane, Executive Director, AMROBA
Change – need for new direction
Review – will it achieve change?
1030 – 1040 Government Policy – Direction Senator David Fawcett
LNP Aviation Policy
1040 – 1300 Open Forum - Issues
Chairs: Senator Fawcett, Ken Cannane
And in the Senate: ADJOURNMENT - Aviation SPEECH

Last edited by Sarcs; 24th Nov 2013 at 20:10.
Sarcs is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2013, 21:13
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
So many words. Soooooo many words.

Remind me: Who in CASA has lost his job as a consequence of all this outrage? Name 1 person.

Remind me: What’s changed. Name 1 change. (And don’t insult my intelligence by quoting more hot air out of a politician’s mouth.)

Does Barrier have an AOC?

What is Senator Fawcett going to find out that he’s not already been told?

You’re being played for fools and, frankly, it's a very easy game to play.
Creampuff is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2013, 22:03
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
A flood of words and a drought of ideas. I feel sorry for you some times.

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 24th Nov 2013 at 22:03. Reason: And don't call me "frankly".
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2013, 23:11
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
I’ve already explained on numerous occasions (and free of charge) the only idea that I consider has a snowflake’s hope in hades of resulting in any substantial change.

But let’s put on our ‘glass half full’ hats, and track through what’s going to happen.

(1) There’s going to be a ‘review’ and, finally, all of the truth will come out. (This will be reinforced by all the information provided to Senator Fawcett.) Yep?

(2) There will be a ‘report’ which will make ‘recommendations’ which, if implemented, will finally bring about fundamental root and branch changes to aviation regulation and accident investigation. Yep?

(3) Then the government will implement all those recommendations. Yep?

So, walk me through, in precise terms, what you think the recommendations at (2) will be, Mr Ideas.
Creampuff is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2013, 02:50
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
I better go and have a word with the ills of society. Why don't you have another vat of wine, while you wait?

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 25th Nov 2013 at 02:51. Reason: To be precise.
Frank Arouet is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2013, 05:10
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,205
Upchuck...

As a long term member of the Ills of Society, I'll have a guess...

The very salubrious review panel will listen with great interest to stories, many and varied about CAsA, the impact of regs on the viability of GA and the sanity of its participants, some of its star staff performances and etc..

They will then report to the Minister with recommendations.

The Government will adopt those recommendations, and recommend that CAsA adopt those recommendations.

CAsA will then huddle up and form a Committee. That will meet every 6 months, to formulate a plan to advise the Minister on the schedule they will adopt on how the plan will formulate the process of diverting / sorry, adopting the recommendations once the plan is in place. The schedule for the plan to the Minister may be a few years in the making because the changes will be difficult and complex and CAsA is always short of money and properly trained staff.
And there could be legal implications/ complications. The DAS will consult with the Head of Legal Counsel..who will advise at the next Committee sitting...in 5 months or so.
So, in about 2015, with TAP/The Adoption Plan" in place ..and sent to the Minister for review and approval..CAsA will be all waiting and set to go.

2017. Looking good to go. Plan approved and trained staff in place. CASA is bleeding money of course, with "specialist" advisers and "consultants" and asks for more. Since this is not approved because the Government is on the financial ropes, there's a bit of a hold-up, impasse, whatever.

2018 Not to worry CAsA are still keen to divert / sorry, implement the changes, but only those that they want, so there's a bit of a stoush between CASA "experts" and ministerial know-it-alls, some of whom have actually been in an Airbus 330 to Bali for holidays.

2019. This is getting exciting. Looks like a change of Minister. Yehaaa.!
Drinks all round at Fort Fumble.

Emergency committee meeting to recommend changes to the plan to present to the new incumbent re modified recommendations to be defered, some maybe implemented and those that were far too difficult to deal with will be left to wither "off the vine", so to speak. BUT, there is a promise that the final draft of the final CAsR will be ready by 2025. Just a promise, mind.

2020. New Minister wants a halt in order to produce a "White Paper" to elucidate his vision for a new and revitalised Aviation Industry.
These recommendations to be followed by a "Green Paper,to be reviewed by a Committee of Aviation "experts" to see what is feasable. Once that review is tabled, recommendations will be forwarded to CAsA to divert/ sorry, implement the changes.

Its all a bit like the Universe really...it goes on forever.

For further recommendations re any changes to Australian aviation may I suggest Used Boats - New Boats - Search New & Used Boats For Sale - BoatPoint Australia some really lovely escape units with sails which will take you away slowly but surely into distant seas of CAsA free sanity.
sorry 40c
aroa is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2013, 05:21
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
AMROBA on TASRR & former Canuck regulator...

From latest AMROBA newsletter: Vol 10 Issue 11
This government has turned the spotlight onto the government departments and agencies involved with the aviation industry.

One cannot imagine support for this Review coming from his own Department let alone CASA or the ATSB.

Mike Mrdyck, Secretary of the Department of Infrastructure; Mike Dolan, ATSB; Allan Hawke, Chair of CASA Board; John McCormick, CEO of CASA and CASA’s Senior Executive would have been against such a review.

The terms of reference for the review clearly demonstrates that this government does not have confidence in the current direction of aviation reform by those persons listed above.

AMROBA membership supports the all encompassing review and hope they have enough time to properly analyse the aviation system properly.
We appreciated the LNP policy stating that:
Labor’s approach to aviation policy over the past six years has seen cost after cost added to the bottom lines of airlines and airports, pilots and passengers.
Together, these measures have made the Australian industry increasingly uncompetitive internationally and have seen many smaller aviation providers struggle to survive.
Government imposed red tape is beginning to overwhelm many smaller and medium-sized businesses which struggle to cope with changing, complicated and confusing requirements.”
To achieve this massive change, they also recognised
that they needed to:
 reform the structure of the Civil Aviation Safety
Authority;
 revitalise the General Aviation Action Agenda;
 enhance aviation skills, training and development.
AMROBA will lobby for:
 A more responsive CASA structure that holds
a senior individual responsible for standards,
regulatory services and oversight for discrete
industry sectors must be an outcome.
 A 3 tier legislative system where ICAO standards
& practices are promulgated by CASA as
‘aviation safety standards’ referred to in
CASRs must also be an outcome.
 A FAR based system for the non-airline sectors

must be another outcome.

And on the Canuck review team member:
Minister Truss has announced the team to review aviation in Australia.The terms of reference are fairly broad. Don Spruston has had 6 years as a regulator. He will bring a Canadian perspective to the review of the aviation sectors of Australia.
“Mr. Spruston is the Director General of the International Business Aviation Council (IBAC). IBAC is responsible for representing the business aviation community worldwide. Don has held this position since the beginning of 1999.
Prior to assuming his present role, Mr. Spruston held numerous positions in the field of aviation, including managing partner of Canadian Aviation
Safety Associates where he conducted evaluations of civil aviation authorities and was advisor to ICAO in establishing the ICAO Universal Safety Oversight Audit Program.
Prior to this Mr. Spruston spent 6 ½ years as Director General of Civil Aviation in Canada. He also gained considerable experience as an aircraft operator as Director General of Aircraft Services where he managed a flight department of over 90 aircraft. He also held a number of air traffic management positions including the Regional Director of Air Navigation in Transport Canada’s Pacific Region.
Mr. Spruston holds a Bachelor of Sciences degree from the Royal Military College of Canada. He has an Airline Transport Pilot Licence and has flown in various roles, such as worldwide cargo operations, VIP transport and system evaluation flying. He has written numerous articles on aviation safety and has won awards such as the Transport Canada Safety Award, Canadian Owners and Pilots President Award and the Canadian Aeronautics and Space Institute C.D. Howe Award.”

Let us hope that he listens to the plight of the industry in this country. Even if he makes comparisons with the Canadian system, we would be
better off than the direction we are heading.

They have an Act, Regulations that provide a head of power for Transport Canada to promulgate standards. Their standards are based on

ICAO Annex standards — a 3 tier legal system.
Mr Spruston's past experience as a Transport Canada regulator will have him comparing our convoluted regulation system to this...Canadian Aviation Regulations...
Sarcs is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2013, 06:03
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Age: 66
Posts: 284
I hope Mr Spruston brings with him a good sense of humour and a party hat because if he does a thorough job he will realise this;

- He has stepped into a bizarre labyrinth of voodoo mystical magic where industry is dressed up as piñata's and beaten mercilessly with big sticks by the kids from Canberra.
- He will discover a bureaucracy filled with overflowing troughs, sideshow alley style regulatory antics and even the odd bearded woman.
- Then there is the DOIT laughing clowns in which industry places it's declining income into the mouth of the clowns head only to win......nothing.
- But don't forget to buy your Parts 61 and 145 show bags which contain empty promises and nothing but the latest CASA newsletter and references to 'attainable safety', 'achievable outcomes' and other hollow statements.
- There will be riotous fun in the spooky House of Mirrors at Brisbane's regional field office where mi mi mi Beaker and Fort Fumbles finest spin doctors will hold up audit and investigation reports, internal processes and accounts reports to the mirrors which then twist and distort the material in an attempt to fool the unwary Spruston.

Who knows, Mr Spruston may be met by CASA's own version of a balmy army in which the wily hecklers tease and taunt Mr Spruston in an attempt to distract him from the job at hand?
I wonder if Sky Sentinel will be used to track his whereabouts as he strolls through the bowels of Fort Fumble, alerting the GWM whenever Mr Spruston detects a nugget?
Paragraph377 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.