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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 27th Jan 2014, 19:58
  #261 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
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Submissions & common themes...??

4 days and counting on the road to doom or redemption...

Moving right along.....noticed the non-powered crew (GLF) had an invite to meet with the WLRP prior to Xmas...

Aviation Safety Review

In December last year the Vice-President and I were invited to meet with the Deputy Prime Minister’s independent aviation safety regulation review panel to discuss important aspects impacting our aviation sector. We agreed to submit a Briefing Advice to assist the Panel’s review as a fore-runner to an eventual submission to the panel. A copy of that briefing advice can be found HERE.

Submissions to the panel are to be lodged by 31 January 2014 and I encourage every Australian glider pilot concerned about the future of our great interest and sport make their own submission after reading our advice to the panel.I encourage every glider pilot and supporter concerned for our future to lodge a submission to the Minister’s Review Panel and express their personal thoughts about what they think is important for our gliding Freedom to Fly.
Coupla quotes from the briefing paper (mentioned above)...

...."5. On the basis of its outstanding safety track-record of the past, the GFA agrees that the current relationship based on exemptions and delegations is better served by the proposed Part 149 Approved Organisation Model. Most important is GFA's continuing right to self-determine and administer its own culture and rule-making, its role in supporting glider pilots in command, their clubs and the maintainers ensuring the operating efficacy of the craft they fly; plus GFA’s agreed Manuals of Standard Procedures, operating rules, record keeping and audit activities..."

..."7. CASA’s respect for GFA’s role in self-administering Australia’s gliding realm and to not remove it from that role without first showing due cause and a process incorporating natural justice..." {Natural justice you say?? What's that....don't think that falls into the vernacular in the halls of Fort Fumble.. }

Ok moving on to the common themes...

.... "11. Oversight by CASA must be only via the GFA's manuals, procedures and structures, and not by direct intervention. Two recent examples of CASA officers circumventing the GFA in its dealings with its members. This undermined GFA’s authority to oversee and administer gliding in Australia with consequent negative safety outcomes. The importance of a mutually respectful and mindful oversight of gliding in Australia must be paramount.

12. Oversight and compliance is mostly achieved through a watchful and caring culture where subtle layers of fellow club members, instructors, safety officers, duty pilots and pilot peers look out for each other. It is an elegant, effective and respectful approach to mentoring and performance development. On the rare occasions (< 0.1% pa) that stronger discipline is necessary, infraction has been satisfactorily resolved over time. Criminal culpability as currently proposed by CASA is counter-productive to the just culture and safety management Australian gliding has developed and refined over decades..."

Part in red...now where have I heard that opinion voiced before...??

Finally GFA's message for the panel :
1. GFA recognises and appreciates the cooperation and collaboration evident within CASA through the Associate Director of Aviation Safety and the Self Administering Sport Aviation Office,

2. The Part 149 Approved Organisation model is the correct way forward,

3. Funding and the method of fair audit of GFA requires further consultation,

4. GFA is held in high regard by aviation generally and is well placed with CASA to build upon its existing administration and oversight of gliding in Australia,

5. A punitive, authoritarian and disrespectful attitude exists within the regulator’s approach to serving the best interests of Australia’s aviation industry. This is out of touch and not aligned with modalities for success, and

6. A thriving aviation sector is critical for Australia’s future. CASA’s current thrust is detrimental to this outcome and is unsupportable. A Ministerial Policy is urgently needed directing CASA to adopt a core mission to support and promote a vibrant, successful, diverse and thriving aviation sector.
Anyway over to the IOSRP...

Addendum: Someone sent me a PM link to the RAA's forum site that is currently running a similar thread..thank you for that..

Here's a particular (pertinent) post of interest from Oscar..: Post # 84

Last edited by Sarcs; 27th Jan 2014 at 20:30. Reason: Today's Tuesday not Monday...can't count!
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 00:00
  #262 (permalink)  
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Years ago I had a serious complaint against CASA and "ministerialised" them resulting in a recommendation I take the matter up with The Commonwealth Ombudsman, as one was able to do in those days. CASA immediately pushed for an "own motion investigation" which limited my complaint to a vexatious loss of my evidence and left me with limited scope to attack them on due process and my claim of cronyism.

Today I note Fairfax newspapers and "our ABC" exposing corruption in the Unions and calling for blood. This, to my thinking was calling for an "own motion investigation" based on left leaning entity findings. I found it amazing anybody would see anything remarkable with exposure of this activity with the Unions, indeed it has been ignored in the main for six years. But the similarities struck me. See justice done under our terms.

Wouldn't it be grand to have a review into CASA as an "own motion" idea?

Write your own terms of reference with as near as possible accurate complaints, refuse to include historic data and push to ensure a pre determined outcome, then sacrifice someone to appease the plebs and just continue as before. Same horse with a different jockey.

I hope I'm wrong about Truss and his agenda, but unfortunately I have no faith that he will deliver an outcome beneficial to aviation in Australia, especially to Manufacture, GA and Engineering fraternity.

We all should beware The Ides of march, not just The DAS.

I wonder, will he get a reference with his golden handshake?
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 11:34
  #263 (permalink)  
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Truss builds upon the Grankenstein

Sarcs, I always enjoy your analytical posts and well researched information. 10/10. However, and there is always a however, it is painfully obvious that the WLR is a standard 101 government exercise in massaging the turd.
Truss promised a review of CASA as part of the Liberals desperate attempt to win votes at the election. A standard empty promise, but then they won! What to do what to do?? They must continue the farce and robustly look into the current malaise, and without rehashing old material, the WLR was born. A clever concoction of spin, magic tricks, massaging, deflection and of course 'all of it kept safe, in a safe, in the safe city of Canberra'!

The Australian aviation industry, the media (except some ABC reporters, Sandilands and Phelan) and most in general have been either duped by the pony act, are sadly as dumb as a pigs anus or quite simply couldn't give a shit (that will change when 200 charred fragmented unidentifiable corpses are removed from a smoking hole by using tweezers and a small spoon )

If Truss and his chief lettuce whippers of Mrdak and Credlin were serious about safety they would never have orchestrated this 'd' grade 70's porno flick called The Wet Lettuce Review. They would have launched a clear, transparent and credible review using known industry independents with real aviation experience and who have a spine. To get the real flavour of what CASA, ATSB and ASA have done, perhaps the WLR could interview the following people, just for shits and giggles;

- Dominic James
- Nick Xenophon
- Clark Butson
- John Quadrio
- Brian Aherne
- Boyd Munro
- Shane Urquhart

Now wouldn't that be a hoot, and my wordy wouldn't we see the real Australian aviation scene exposed
And I am confident that if the above 7 had their chance to explain clearly, logically and succinctly their personal dealings and in-depth knowledge of working within the system it would be done without the use of limp wristed lettuce leaf slaps, stern talkings and home spun verbal diarrhea.
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 17:52
  #264 (permalink)  
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Big bang theory- debunked.

P377 # 319 "[couldn't] give a shit (that will change when 200 charred fragmented unidentifiable corpses are removed from a smoking hole by using tweezers and a small spoon". (etc).
Just a stray thought, a twiddle with first coffee; but I wonder if anyone is truly worried about the "smoking hole", CASA least of all. The 'big one' scenario is probably the least of their worries, the 'operator', government, the whole lot will go slip quietly into the bomb shelters and wait it out. The tragic thing is they may be the only survivors after the holocaust and emerge into the new world and (here's the bad bit) start breeding. They built their bomb shelters, finest your money could buy ages ago and have had many, many years to perfect the evacuation and survival plan. The statistics, the law, the system and government all combine to ensure their survival. Nope, for first coffee thoughts, I'd scratch the big bang theory off their list of priorities.

I wonder though, as McComic toddles off home if it's not the 'smoking hole' worrying him, but a 'smoking gun'. I mean once he leaves the building, he leaves all that lovely protection behind and probably some enemies to boot; what if someone had very carefully built an extensive dossier and decided to 'challenge' the man himself, publicly and legally rather than take on the entire organisation what then?. Aye, it has all the makings of a fine novel, but it's probably a much more scary scenario than a well prepared 'smoking hole' defence and much more chance of being published. Name, shame and scandal beats the blame game and when he's no longer pack leader, how long will it be until the other jackals attack. Now I will buy a ticket for that show, front row and centre.

All bollocks, but I can have a daydream with first coffee, can't I ?.

Toot toot.
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 17:59
  #265 (permalink)  
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well K me old dog's body . .. . . that first caffeine fix is always a wake up call , in one sense at least. If it achieves one illuminating thing it is the thought that you and the others here who are intimately and indubitably informed and thereby able to apply the Conan Doyle scrutiny and analysis to the mix and the mess, are worth your weight in . .. . . whole loads of it, out the back. My first 'hit' was two hours ago as today I shall mosey up to Bris to lunch and parley with the man writing the definitive bio (it can only be hoped) of one Patrick Gordon Taylor (Bill to his confreres). Were PGT still with us he would view the malaise that ails the industry, the chiefs and the sad culpable people who frame and administer the law , most askance.

The seven that para has come up with as potential informants is a good start. As facilitators your 'brigade' should take the thought of calling to arms the blokes listed to another stage. An integrated concerted platform consisting of these and others with like insight, need not be pissing in the wind. Brief them now so they are ready to go down on their marks when the time is ripest. Get some 4 corners type early warning system organised. Have someone like Chris Marsden supplied with a holding brief. Then start grinding them beans again, old bean.

Like 'The Games' it could morph into a droll mini-series . John Clarke could play a credible Skull . On his ear.

Last edited by Fantome; 28th Jan 2014 at 18:35.
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Old 29th Jan 2014, 20:33
  #266 (permalink)  
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Thumbs up Borrowed from RAA member Bob...??

One more day...

Hope you don't mind BL but since we're into 'share and share alike'....thought your post from RAA forum was well worth regurgitating?? Kind of put's perspective on history, politics, the current malaise & future choices/actions by industry stakeholders of GA if certain actions/decisions aren't made:
Firstly: We are the only ICAO signatory in the world, whose National Airworthiness Authority DOES NOT have immunity from prosecution in the course of their normal affairs - thank you the Balmain pig PM, Paul Keating. As a result, CASA has had a degree of ****-covering since 1988. Secondly, the several attempts to introduce "and foster" into the Act have all failed, thanks to luddite fools in parliament or the senate. This is a matter of record. Thirdly, Dick Smith did (and still, I suspect, does not) understand the link between "airworthiness" and engineering judgement; so Keating - via Brereton - used him to gut CASA of most of its engineering heritage. Since then, with the exception of Byron, Ministers have been appointing fighter pilots to direct CASA. In parallel, since Anderson's era, our NAA has abused its discretionary authority, flouted the constitution, and exhibited a culture of arrogance that began to lose the credibility of supporting expertise in the late 1970s.

Currently, CASA officers are trained in their responsibilities under the Administrative Decisions Judicial Review Act 1988, but completely ignore their KNOWN responsibility towards natural justice, when directed by the head fighter pilot. There is no system of internal checks and balances, because CASA has neither the economic resources nor, it would appear, the moral resources* to successfully implement systemic change to the culture. It must be made clear that, at any point in time, CASA has (and has had) a significant number of highly motivated, well educated, and highly capable people, of high personal probity and good intent, who find themselves virtually paralysed in any attempt to reform or improve, due to the pervasive nature of the post-Anderson culture. CASA firmly believes that it has a near-divine responsibility to tell people what they can't do in the interests of safety, and that appointment to a position in CASA automatically imbues the appointee with moral authority, irrespective of the actual expertise. Within this culture, the few persons I have experienced who are persuing personal agendas have virtually no limits on their ability to negate the positive efforts of the most of CASA, most of the time.

*The structure and methodologies of CASA do not allow the officers any discretion to speak of, in allowing their personal probity to inform them in matters of regulatory judgement; I have a letter stating that CASA has a team of lawers to guide officers in making each regulatory judgement. it's not a lawer's bloody job to make engineering judgements, but this is the outcome of Paul Keating's all-embracing comprehension of the economics of management of hardware.

Now, CASA is - pointlessly, because Australia is very much not the US, OR the EEC - trying to emulate those NAAs, but at the same time do not have the corporate guts to recognise that the bulk of aeronautical expertise in Australia is in private industry, and can be used as a resourse to fulfil our ICAO obligations. because, as a member of CASA Engineering Services said to me (in personal conversation), "you can't trust pilots". John McCormack said to me, personally, face to face, in a room full of the operators of Approved Aircraft Maintenance organisations (LAMEs to a person), "what do these guys know about airworthiness? Nothing!". He was a fighter pilot (Mirages), so he knows.

We have a few career politicians, who have been exposed to CASA for so long, that they realise that the furphy of CASA's untouchable expertise is a Furphy; and we have a few relatively young, generally independent MPs, who are sufficiently iconoclastic to consider that CASA may, indeed, be somewhat less than perfect. Well, if they fix the frigging laws, so that CASA people can do their bloody jobs without looking over their shoulders all the time; admit that Australia deserves an aviation industry, and include "foster" as a prime directive in the CAAct; allow the reformers in CASA to work, under a director who (like Byron) was never a fighter pilot; and outsource airworthiness as the FAA so successfully has to DERs (who are members of the FAA when DERing, even if not employed by the FAA - make THAT work in Australia!)... then, in about3-5 years, our industry might start to recover.

Otherwise, we need to really work the trans-tasman bilateral, and move our industry to New Zealand.
Of politics & aviation - Too little..too much??

Interesting article out of the States...:
Congress to the Rescue?

The role of the legislative branch in aviation regulations is a troubling one.

By Robert Goyer / Published: Jan 28, 2014

How do you feel about Congress stepping in and telling the FAA how it should regulate aviation activities? Well, that probably depends on how you feel about the subject they’re weighing in on.

While it’s difficult to come up with hard statistics on the subject, industry observers believe that over the past few years Congress has taken a more active role than ever in mandating aviation regulations from the Hill, with little interference from the President when it comes time to sign them into law.

Over the past several years Congress has weighed in on pilot duty time, pilots’ rights, required experience for airline pilots, contract towers, FAA furloughs, drones, Part 23 regulation, fat pilots and a number of other issues.

Whether you agree with Congress’ views on the individual issues is not the point — we agree with some of its actions, like the Pilots’ Bill of Rights, and disagree with others, like the new ATP requirement for airline pilots. Regardless, the question is still this: How far should Congress go in writing aviation regulations?

It’s not an easy question to answer. For one, as the branch that doles out the dough for federal spending, it is smack dab in the middle of the FAA’s business. Which programs get funding, which ones don’t, which ones get more than their share and which one’s get the shaft, is all in Congress’ power and within its constitutionally delegated duties.

Still, the issue is similar in nature to juries deciding fault in aviation accidents. How can 12 lay-citizens be expected in the course of a couple of weeks to develop a sophisticated enough understanding of aviation issues to render a fair judgment on who was at fault for an accident that was likely so complex that veteran investigators would disagree on the root causes? The answer is they can’t be expected to be good judges, but that’s the system we’re stuck with.

The same could be said for Congress. How could 535 non-aviation professionals (with a few exceptions) be expected to create laws requiring aviation regulations that make sense in the complex aerospace world in which we live? The answer again is that they can’t be, but that’s the system we’re stuck with.

Of course complicating the matter is the fact that the FAA needs a babysitter. The agency is so entrenched and unresponsive to the needs and rights of the industry it regulates that Congress often has to step in to set the bureaucrats straight.

Read more at Congress to the Rescue? | Flying Magazine
Hmm think I'd prefer the Yanks conundrum than ours...
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Old 30th Jan 2014, 11:17
  #267 (permalink)  
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The $230 million dollar Frankenstein

Great post Sarcs. A very succinct description of the CASA, and this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
One of the greatest concerns is the power, obstinance and free will of the LSD. Although they purport to be relatively hands off from most non legal decisions made at CASA that simply isn't true. And their powers, authority and decision making is not clear whithin CASA's charter or structure. When you research their function and basically who is calling the shots they won't answer you, neither will the Miniscules department and nor will the AG's department.
But don't forget the now LSD has had over 20 years of influence and plenty of time to structure themselves just where they want to be. And of course Dr Voodoo, Number 3 at CASA, ensured his 'system' remained solid and in place after he climbed the greasy pole, because he handed the reigns on to his long term apprentice, Mr AA.

But going back to the pathetic $230 million reg reform Frankenstein, it would be alleged that the Skull has stated that it will be completed come hell or high water and what is introduced is here to stay! A regulatory nightmare, unworkable and a Frankenstein of gigantic proportions is what we have.
Leroy Keith didn't do a bad job as Top Dog, but of course members of the Iron Ring did not like his methods and ensured he got pineappled. But he did manage to roll some of his plotters. Bruce Byron for all his faults also tried to end the regulatory reform debacle by adopting European ways, and this too upset the Iron Ring immensely and they immediately started undermining him. He too survived for some time, and managed to kneecap some of his plotters but eventually he also walked the green mile. Which leaves us with McCormick. A curious individual and certainly one could speak for days on the topic of 'he who must not be named' but the upshot is that he is trying to rush through the remainder of the reg reform folly for no greater purpose than to please his Masters. He knows it is shite, but again we have a situation where the Director does not call the shots. I am surprised he has lasted the 5 years as generally he does not like being somebody else's bitch! And at CASA the largest degree of power never lays with the Director

But anyway, it's all fun to watch, beer and popcorn stuff really, maybe a dash of lettuce thrown in for good measure would spice things up, and a few slices of pineapple wouldn't go astray, but the outcome will be soft, very soft, a bitch slap from a limp wrist. That is inevitable, no government in Australia will ever admit it has created, contributed to or 'fostered' a hybrid species, a DNA clusterf#ck, an abomination that grows, morphs and assimilates daily, CASA.

Last edited by Paragraph377; 30th Jan 2014 at 11:29.
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Old 31st Jan 2014, 01:05
  #268 (permalink)  
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WLR D-day & the DAS..‘last chance powerdrive’

Top post P377....

..."One of the greatest concerns is the power, obstinance and free will of the LSD".. A fascinating subject matter but perhaps the LSD power base history; the Voodoo doc's legal interpretations of the CASRs/CAOs and; the criminalisation of the CAA discussion would be best carried across to the Senate thread...

The Boss (slightly edited): “The Skyways jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive… Everybody's out on the run tonight but there's no place left to hide….”

A curious individual and certainly one could speak for days on the topic of 'he who must not be named' but the upshot is that he is trying to rush through the remainder of the reg reform folly for no greater purpose than to please his Masters. He knows it is shite, but again we have a situation where the Director does not call the shots.
Interesting observation that you make Para.. Especially in light of the DAS's latest, first and (hopefully) third last missive for '14 (CASA Briefing January 2014)...

Passing Strange: It is almost like this missive has been penned (keyed) by someone else...?? Gone is the swagger, the bravado, the "my way or the highway " or the parting tautological IOS comments, that we've all come to expect and grudgingly admire (my bold):
I appreciate and value the effort made by everyone who takes part in regulatory development because CASA cannot do this job on its own. We need the expertise and practical knowledge of people working in the aviation industry to test ideas, translate concepts to safety regulations and to ensure the best possible safety outcomes are achieved with the appropriate level of regulation.

I understand the regulatory development process can at times seem cumbersome and drawn out. However, like many things in life, the devil is in the detail, and we must get the rules right. At times this means revisiting sets of rules to make improvements to ensure the right safety outcomes are being achieved with regulations that do not place inappropriate burdens on the aviation industry. It is largely feedback from aviation people and organisations that informs the review and improvement of rules and this was the case with important amendments made in December 2013.
And finally:
These changes flow directly from the feedback CASA has received from aviation people and organisations. By listening and acting CASA has created better regulations that still strive for the best possible safety outcomes while reducing costs and red tape where possible.
One gets the impression that the DAS has been given the unofficial nod and his glory days are now well and truly behind him...

Oh and the red tape comment didn't go unnoticed by the IOS...
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Old 31st Jan 2014, 08:07
  #269 (permalink)  
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Sarksi??? red tape?? what red tape??
OH that

RED TAPE !!!!!
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Old 31st Jan 2014, 08:48
  #270 (permalink)  
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Red tape challenge. Sounds familiar, I'm guessing a trip to the UK has happened? Perhaps the Brit on theTruss review has brought up the CAA red tape challenge.

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Old 31st Jan 2014, 09:54
  #271 (permalink)  
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Ben's blog has jumped on India being busted to level 2 over a failed FAA audit and is asking the question if we are next?
FAA busts India's air safety rating, Australia next? | Plane Talking

This may not be enough for Australia to avoid suffering a similar fate to India, mainly because of the gross failures of integrity and competency displayed by CASA and the ATSB in relation to the failed oversight of of Pel-Air’s aerial ambulance work with Westwind corporate jets before and at the time of the crash of such a flight near Norfolk Island in 2009, and the appallingly flawed crash report that was exposed by a Senate inquiry that the new Minister for Transport has yet to respond to.
The consequences for Qantas and Virgin Australia of such US sanctions on their American code-shares and services would be costly and serious. While some argue that such an outcome is unlikely, the FAA’s sanctioning in the past of Israel and now India makes it possible.
Pel-Air is a scandal that keeps on stinking, as does the failure of CASA to do anything material to fix the rules that applied to the fuel and flight planning of such missions for more than four years, even thought it has admitted that changes need to be made.
If very decisive action isn’t taken over deficient or ineffective public administration of air safety standards and operator oversight in this country, Australia will-get-busted, just like Israel and now India.
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Old 31st Jan 2014, 12:20
  #272 (permalink)  
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Ananas Comosus time?

Passing Strange: It is almost like this missive has been penned (keyed) by someone else...?? Gone is the swagger, the bravado, the "my way or the highway " or the parting tautological IOS comments, that we've all come to expect and grudgingly admire
Sarcs, I once knew an individual very similar in nature to Mr Skull. Occasionally he would pop some new pills, attend anger management classes, 'clear the pipes' down at Kangaroo Point, things like that. On even rarer occasions he would indulge in a bar fight or cruise around town aggressively in his convertible displaying road rage skills that would impress Mike Tyson! Perhaps that is one of the reasons why 'he who shan't be named' appears suddenly subdued?
Then again somebody might have laced his stoogies with wacky backy, or perhaps planted an aphrodisiac in his office pot plants? Perhaps Dr Hoodoovoodoo has placed a happy spell on him? Or maybe he has become aware of a tragedy that has befallen a member of the IOS and that has mellowed him and cheered him up?

On the streets of Can'tberra last week a robust rumour was circulating that Mr Angry wanted to resign his post in February and sail off into the sunset with a golden TRIM file and a hug, onboard the S.S Styx. But allegedly the Miniscule refused this request and has demanded that Mr Angry remain with Fort Fumble until the wet lettuce review has been completed.
Interesting rumour if it is true, because a rumour of such nature could indicate that the Miniscule is currently sharpening the Pineapple and getting ready to insert it?

Oh well, the streets of Can'tberra can be a strange place at times, and with the amount of crowded street corner troughs, free roaming pigs and endless supply of pineapples it becomes a complex confusing place for one to roam around.
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Old 31st Jan 2014, 21:16
  #273 (permalink)  
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I can't work a wet lettuce in, but Dr Hoodoovoodoo and Herr Skull are like apples and oranges. Adding the pineapple has the making for a really good fruit salad.
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Old 31st Jan 2014, 21:25
  #274 (permalink)  
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On the streets of Can'tberra last week a robust rumour was circulating that Mr Angry wanted to resign his post in February and sail off into the sunset with a golden TRIM file and a hug, onboard the S.S Styx. But allegedly the Miniscule refused this request and has demanded that Mr Angry remain with Fort Fumble until the wet lettuce review has been completed.
Utter tosh.

The Minister can’t make anyone who wants to leave, stay.
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Old 31st Jan 2014, 21:44
  #275 (permalink)  
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Bumper crop of pineapples...??

On the streets of Can'tberra last week a robust rumour was circulating that Mr Angry wanted to resign his post in February and sail off into the sunset with a golden TRIM file and a hug, onboard the S.S Styx. But allegedly the Miniscule refused this request and has demanded that Mr Angry remain with Fort Fumble until the wet lettuce review has been completed.
Interesting rumour... Maybe, reading between the lines, the DAS missive indicates a prelude to the main event, where the DAS will be presented with a pineapple nicely wrapped in a wet lettuce...however Creamy's post would suggest otherwise??

denabol good catch... Have been monitoring the FAA audit of India for sometime... Although the Indian DGCA makes the FF trough swillers look like naughty choir boys.., there was significant parallels in the findings by the FAA with our last ICAO audit...

The most alarming aspect, for the Miniscule and his minions, of the Indian Audit is the speed in which the FAA has acted. Maybe this is because the Indian avsafety admin is a more serious basket case than here in Oz...hmm or maybe the FAA are sick of certain NAA's taking the piss??

Either way it would appear that the FAA are not interested in brokering diplomatic deals (unlike the reprieve we received in the past). Here is an article on India's attempts to placate the FAA: All safety issues addressed, says DGCA's report to FAA
Among the concerns raised by the FAA over 33 issues were filling up of several senior positions including those of fulltime Flight Operations Inspectors (FOIs), beefing up of aviation safety training programmes and preparing manuals and documentation on certain safety issues.

FOIs are senior pilots who would be taken on contract and paid salaries consistent with the industry norms that could be higher than that of the DGCA chief himself. An estimated Rs 40 crore would be needed annually for this purpose. Another concern highlighted by the FAA about training DGCA officers on the new types of aircraft entering the Indian market, including the Boeing 787 Dreamliners, would be addressed soon, they said.

DGCA's oversight on training schools and schedules would also be beefed up. The FAA, which has over the years downgraded several nations including close ally Israel, Mexico, Venezuela and Philippines, uses 'downgrade' as more of a tool to pressurise countries to shape up their regulatory schemes but not as a warning of imminent safety problems, they said.
Now to the linked article in Ben's piece: FAA downgrades India’s aviation safety rankings Quotes of concern for the Miniscule & his head bureaucrat Mrdak... :
The decision reduces India to a safety category that includes Ghana, Indonesia, Uruguay and Zimbabwe, and means that Air India and Jet Airways—the two Indian airlines that fly to US destinations—wouldn’t be allowed to expand flights and their existing flights would be subjected to additional checks. They would have to snap ties such as any code-sharing arrangements with US airlines.

Jet has a code-share agreement with United Airlines while Air India is joining Star Alliance, the club that includes American airlines.

Shares of Jet Airways, India’s largest listed airline, plunged 3.94% to Rs.236.45 each on BSE on a day the benchmark Sensex edged up 0.08% to 20,513.85 points.

A category II safety rating means that the civil aviation authority does not comply with International Civil Aviation Organization (Icao) safety standards and is deficient in one or more areas, such as technical expertise, trained personnel and record-keeping or inspection procedures, according to FAA.

While a downgrade does not reflect on the safety of India’s airlines—the rankings measure the ability of the Indian regulator to follow safety processes and not that of the airlines—India risks being perceived in a negative light by aviation authorities in other countries.
“The only area in which India lacks marginally in effective implementation of a critical element is ‘organization’. For this, India has already created 75 posts of chief flight operations inspector (CFOI), deputy CFOIs, senior CFOIs and FOIs. After the recruitment, it is expected that effective implementation in this element also would rise much above the global average,” Singh added.
Most disturbing parallels
- Perhaps a look into the crystal ball??
A member of the government-mandated safety council, formed in the aftermath of the Mangalore air crash that killed 158 people in May 2010, said the government had not heeded several letters sent by the council about the risk of a downgrade in India’s safety ranking.

“I am not surprised,” said Mohan Ranganathan, who sits on the Civil Aviation Safety Advisory Council.

The deceit of DGCA and aviation ministry has finally been exposed. Blatant abuse of regulations in safety and flight standards...were swept aside for political and commercial considerations. The last two years have seen the lowest in integrity levels. Persons responsible should be held accountable and not let off lightly for bringing this shame upon India,” he said.
No comment...except TICK..TOCK!

Addendum: WLR update courtesy of the MMSM yesterday...
Opinions pour in for regulation review

REGULATORY reform is emerging as a key issue in the federal government's aviation safety review as submissions officially close tonight.

The panel is expecting up to 150 submissions and has already met about 100 people as it works through the concerns raised by a wide-ranging cross-section of the industry.

Submissions were still coming in "thick and fast" yesterday and chairman David Forsyth said he expected that to continue today and through the weekend.

"We reckon we're probably going to finish up with between 120 and 150 submissions, which is good," Mr Forsyth said. "Most of them have been really constructive; there's a lot of really good information in there. A lot of people took a lot of time (over the) recommendations, so we've just got to go through and digest all of that."

The panel of Mr Forsyth, Roger Whitefield and Don Spruston will reconvene in the second half of February to discuss the submissions and the issues stemming from them.

The review, ordered by Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss, was tasked with taking a detailed look at aviation agencies such as the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and Airservices Australia.

The inquiry was prompted by dissatisfaction in sections of the aviation industry about the aviation regulatory regime and problems with the ATSB and CASA highlighted in a Senate report into a crash off Norfolk Island involving Pel-Air.

The government was also worried that the agencies were not working together effectively.

Mr Forsyth said there was a consistency among most of the issues aired in the submissions, including the relationship between the various safety agencies and the effect of regulation on small business.

"The hardest job by far is the regulatory reform program," he said. "That's been going on for so long, it's such a big issue and any potential solutions for it have such huge implications, it's going to require a lot of thought and lot of discussions with people and industry and government."

The panel chairman said there had been few surprises in the submissions, but people were passionate about the issues.

He said there was a huge amount of pride in the industry but also a lot of concern about its future and worries at the small business end about its ability to change in line with the new regulatory regime.

"So, early days yet, but it certainly has been interesting," he said. "We've been really pleased with the response we've had wherever we've gone. The industry has been very good, it's been articulate, a lot of people have put a fair bit of work into it."

The panel now intends to change tack somewhat after conducting interviews based on the terms of reference, and will start to home in on key issues such as regulatory reform.

Members will go through the submissions to nail down the issues and Mr Forsyth said he expected some, where there was agreement on what needed to happen, could be dealt with reasonably simply in terms of recommendations.

But there would be others where there would not be agreement, and those would need a lot of thought and discussion.

"Those targeted type of interviews is what we've started and when the panel's back here in the second half of February, we'll be doing more of that," he said. "We'll be going out again to selected people in industry."
The panel may hold a couple of general discussion meetings in Western Australia and Queensland to complement those held in NSW, Victoria and South Australia.

"We have spoken to people in those states but we think at some point we'd like the panel to get out and get the lie of the land in couple of those places," he said.

The panel does not plan to post the submissions online, mainly because many people wanted to keep them confidential, but expects to quote in its report from some that people are happy to make public.

Mr Forsyth said the panel was "looking pretty good" in terms of meeting the May deadline for submitting the report to Mr Truss.

"The reg reform program's the only one that is threatening that, but we're still pretty confident we'll be able to work our way through that and come up with some recommendations," he said.

Last edited by Sarcs; 31st Jan 2014 at 22:29.
Sarcs is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2014, 23:21
  #276 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rarotonga
Posts: 204
Knowing Your Enemy

Until the Minister is at risk players such as MM, JM, MD and the various advisers are on safe ground until their contracts come up for renewal. The Minister has mitigated his risk by appointing a committee of review (with appropriate terms of reference) and any recommendations coming from that process will be stated in broad terms allowing the Government to take appropriate action (read slow, purposeful and limited).

Given that the Minister is not at risk, it would be surprising if someone below him in the hierarchy (regardless of their personality type) considered resigning unless there were dire personal rather than work circumstances present.

I am surprised that people continue their broad ranging personal attacks on this forum.

While it makes interesting reading, it only increases the resolve of the current players (most of which have won many campaigns before) to stare the opposition out.

Sun Tzu talked about the importance of knowing your enemy. In his day 'the enemy' was relatively easy to identify.

In a contemporary Australia, the enemy is not the inner circle of departmental and agency heads, advisers and personal hand maidens, but the Minister himself.

Australian Governments operate on the Westminster principle. This principle is a constitutional convention, under which ministers are the link between Parliament and Gov- ernment action. Public servants carry out the activities of Government through their work in departments and agencies, and the Government directs them through ministers responsible for their activities.
Stop wasting your time on the also rans and sharpen your swords for the right purpose.

One Minister slipped away unscathed and the second is planning on doing the same.

Until the Minister is at risk, not much will change!

The former cranky but now reformed Franky!
Frank Burden is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2014, 23:56
  #277 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 105
Further to DENABOL's quote of Ben Sandilands’ Plane Talking blog, and the downgrade by FAA of India to a second tier aviation authority, the downgrade is by FAA but ICAO provides a handier tool to compare safety capabilities at http://www.icao.int/safety/Pages/USOAP-Results.aspx.
Looking at the results of ICAO audit of Indian DGAC versus results for CASA, it’s clear that both perform better than global average. That’s not surprising because ICAO average is pulled down by many small states that have no pretensions of ever flying to the US. Note that India ranks better than Australia against half of audited performance criteria. Note too that ICAO last audited Australian in 2008 whereas India was reaudited in 2012.
So Australia’s vulnerability hinges on whether it has improved over past five years. Make your own judgement.
ozaub is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 11:45
  #278 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Age: 66
Posts: 284
Wet lettuce on short finals

Frank (Burden), I agree with you, but here's the thing 'Ministers are never at risk'. If it were you or I we would be hung in the gallows, but never ever will that happen to a politician. They are virtually untouchable, non accountable, and free to act with impunity and in complete disregard to the rules that the rest of society must adhere to. The pathetic Craig Thomson affair is just one example.
No Minister such as Truss, Albo, or any other will ever fall on their sword. It's one set of rules for them and one set of rules for everybody else. All until a revolution comes along anyway.

Creampuff, I disagree. If the Minister 'has the goods' on an individual, he can use that as leverage, in several ways. I can't go into detail publicly but rest assured a politician with power is capable of performing many tricks using his abundance of aces up his sleeve. C'mon Creampuff, you've served time on the inside of a bureaucracy, surely you have seen that sort of game played out before? If you haven't then you have only worked within the fringes of a bureaucracy!

Sarcs, considering the seriousness of the FAA findings against Fort Fumble 5 years ago, it certainly does seem like a long time in between the drinks breaks doesn't it? I wonder what sort of risk framework the FAA use? It must be one made from wet lettuce because I cannot believe they haven't been back for a thorough audit in that period of time under the circumstances?
A lot has happened in 5 years, CASA has become a bigger joke, the Beaker has put his personal wrecking ball through the ATSB, the regulatory reform program has......aagh well, nothing new to report on that one!! Let's see what else? Oh yes, a damning senate inquiry took place that has been ignored, there were some international incidents with Australian airlines, Pel Air and Canleyvale occurred, CASA's pot plant watering budget hit the six figure mark and the very man who the industry should be able look up to, respect and trust for safety leadership has done nothing but take QON's, continued his attack on anyone who speaks out against his dictatorship (AMROBA) as an example and refused to stand up and be counted, regardless of what his puppet masters threaten to do.
Yep, time for the CASA to undergo another audit I reckon.

Last edited by Paragraph377; 1st Feb 2014 at 12:06.
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Old 1st Feb 2014, 20:34
  #279 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 3,052
So Mr McCormick wants to leave, but the Minister 'has the goods' on Mr McCormick and is using them to 'force' Mr McCormick to continue to endure the living hell of a circa $500k no-risk salary, Business Class travel and Five Star accommodation at the top of a high profile government agency, rather than take the opportunity to replace him?

Wow. Clearly my knowledge of the machinations of government is sadly lacking.

My guess had been that the Minister is very happy with Mr McCormick's performance and wants him to stay.
Creampuff is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 21:55
  #280 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Iraq
Age: 30
Posts: 150
CREAMPUFF post#4 - - Just another 7 months or so and all the problems in aviation regulation and accident investigation in Australia will, for the first time ever, be revealed by external experts and rectified by the government.
And then it will be aviation Nirvana.
Lucky I have the attention span of a goldfish. Otherwise I’d remember the last 3 or so times I’ve heard the same crap.
I’m saddened that many of the people who fly or fix aircraft in Australia appear to have the attention span of a goldfish.
Worth considering by the four amigos who keep posting here.
I can't go into detail publicly but rest assured a politician with power is capable of performing many tricks using his abundance of aces up his sleeve.
Come on Oleo, go into it publicly, there is no law against it shirley
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