EK A380 Taxi Mishap - YBBN 14/10/13
When I nearly did it I think my mental model was that I would reach the end of the taxi-way when it was time to turn. I guess this was due to being too relaxed and not diligent enough.
I'm obviously not the only one to make that mistake. I'm not certain that was the reason, just a best guess at how I made the mistake.
I'm obviously not the only one to make that mistake. I'm not certain that was the reason, just a best guess at how I made the mistake.
For those of you who have some influence here is how to make it better in Perth Brisbane and Sydney:
Put large painted taxiway designators on the centrelines at taxiway turns and intersections (in addition to the side markings).
For me, Auckland is a great example of how to do it properly.....google map it and have a look at the designators on the taxiways.
Put large painted taxiway designators on the centrelines at taxiway turns and intersections (in addition to the side markings).
For me, Auckland is a great example of how to do it properly.....google map it and have a look at the designators on the taxiways.
Last edited by ramble on; 23rd Oct 2013 at 05:40.
Unfortunately most of the over runs seem to happen at night, so painted markings are not really of much use. The only real way would be to extinguish the TWY lights leading onto to Delta past the B1 turn, but that would mean either turning the lights back on when they are required, or forbidding movement in (only) that direction at night on that section of TWY D.
Funny thing is is that no one has yet overshot the B into B9 turn at the other end (admittedly not used very much).
Funny thing is is that no one has yet overshot the B into B9 turn at the other end (admittedly not used very much).
short flights long nights
What about 'follow the greens' like they have in SIN and LHR amongst other places?
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Ahhh - Brisbane Airport
Where it takes longer to build a new RWY than the entire duration of WWII.
Taxiway signage may take even longer.
New multi-storey car parks we can throw up in no time however.
Maybe the new Govt's "Direct Action" climate plan could force them to build the new RWY at "china speed" - that would save X,000,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions.
Where it takes longer to build a new RWY than the entire duration of WWII.
Taxiway signage may take even longer.
New multi-storey car parks we can throw up in no time however.
Maybe the new Govt's "Direct Action" climate plan could force them to build the new RWY at "china speed" - that would save X,000,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions.
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Funny thing is is that no one has yet overshot the B into B9 turn at the other end (admittedly not used very much).
. The worst thing they copped was a ribbing from the tower. If an A380 did it it could get a bit untidy, but IIRC they can now use the L/P turning loop. If I've got that wrong they'd possibly need to get towed back, but unlike TWY Delta the pavement is still rated for their weight so it would just be an inconvenience.
What about 'follow the greens' like they have in SIN and LHR amongst other places?
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 24th Oct 2013 at 22:50.
In SIN and LHR the Controller can light up the dedicated taxi route, tailored to the clearance. All the troops then have to do, is ''follow the greens". I often wondered how much traffic it could take without conflict, but it always seemed to work ok. I hate to say it, but a few pilots still got it wrong. The trouble with large Long Haul Operators, is their networks are so big, it's not uncommon to go to a place only once a year. You never gain 'local knowledge'.
These experts that say, "just look out the window'' wouldn't last five minutes in somewhere like Chicago, especially at night in the rain with ''Yank Speak'' at five hundred miles an hour. Taxing around is where most mistakes are made.
These experts that say, "just look out the window'' wouldn't last five minutes in somewhere like Chicago, especially at night in the rain with ''Yank Speak'' at five hundred miles an hour. Taxing around is where most mistakes are made.
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Thanks for that. 
As Traffic said it would probably work most of the time, but not when RWY 32 is also in use with GA and domestic turboprop traffic simultaniously taxiing for Delta.
As Traffic said it would probably work most of the time, but not when RWY 32 is also in use with GA and domestic turboprop traffic simultaniously taxiing for Delta.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 25th Oct 2013 at 01:18.
.......but not when RWY 32 is also in use with GA and domestic turboprop traffic simultaniously taxiing for Delta.
Given most airline operators taxi a reasonable distance behind the preceding traffic, they should have more than adequate time to recognise that the greens go 'round the corner.
I'm not exactly sure how it works (i.e.: does it use transponder or other wizardry.....) but the system in Singapore is virtually fully automated or that's what I was told when I visited the tower some years ago.
Last edited by C441; 25th Oct 2013 at 03:26.
Eclan,
I agree with you sentiment but taxiing the dugong does require quite a bit of head-down using the camera display on the PFD to confirm correct over-steer and the moving map is definitely part of the scan though was perhaps deselected approaching the holding point.
If he's paying attention to driving then he shouldn't really be head-down
Eclan's ethos is at one end of the scale, it relies on crews not making mistakes. At the other end of the scale is designing a system where mistakes cannot be made. Each is as unachievable as the other. Somewhere in the middle lies the most effective solution.
Solid training with regard to discipline and communication, briefing etc ( airmanship as Eclan called it), combined with identifying weak points in the system ( the taxiway being discussed) and altering the system where it is not working so well. This also applies to the YMML 34 Sheed arrival being discussed on another thread.
Upshot? We need to invest in training while continuously assessing the systems for weak points and then addressing them. Pretty much common sense really. So why don't we do it as well as we could? One word. Motivation.
What motivates our industry leaders? They are the people who can easily assign the money to both training and system changes. Our CEOs are motivated by money, remaining competitive, shareholder returns etc. I'm not saying this is wrong, it just is. They will only part with the minimum amount of money that they think they can get away with for training and infrastructure updates etc. At the moment in countries like Australia the only reason we have the level of training expenditure we have is because it is legislated. That is the only means of providing motivation as these folk have legal responsibilities and personal drive to make the money.
So unless it is legally required it won't happen because it would put the company at a disadvantage against it's competitors.
Motivation for improvement is the answer, the motivation that works is legislation. Eg we all pretty much agree that airline pilots need to spend some time hand flying simulators to become comfortable with this skill that is being lost, no airline that I know of would allocate two hours of sim time every six months to hand flying unless it was law. In my mind it is as simple as that. If you want it, require it, otherwise it won't happen.
Bit off topic I know but I felt like a rant
Framer
Solid training with regard to discipline and communication, briefing etc ( airmanship as Eclan called it), combined with identifying weak points in the system ( the taxiway being discussed) and altering the system where it is not working so well. This also applies to the YMML 34 Sheed arrival being discussed on another thread.
Upshot? We need to invest in training while continuously assessing the systems for weak points and then addressing them. Pretty much common sense really. So why don't we do it as well as we could? One word. Motivation.
What motivates our industry leaders? They are the people who can easily assign the money to both training and system changes. Our CEOs are motivated by money, remaining competitive, shareholder returns etc. I'm not saying this is wrong, it just is. They will only part with the minimum amount of money that they think they can get away with for training and infrastructure updates etc. At the moment in countries like Australia the only reason we have the level of training expenditure we have is because it is legislated. That is the only means of providing motivation as these folk have legal responsibilities and personal drive to make the money.
So unless it is legally required it won't happen because it would put the company at a disadvantage against it's competitors.
Motivation for improvement is the answer, the motivation that works is legislation. Eg we all pretty much agree that airline pilots need to spend some time hand flying simulators to become comfortable with this skill that is being lost, no airline that I know of would allocate two hours of sim time every six months to hand flying unless it was law. In my mind it is as simple as that. If you want it, require it, otherwise it won't happen.
Bit off topic I know but I felt like a rant
Framer
