Cobham the new Qantas?
Qantas are bringing 5 refurbished 717s. To my understanding, the first one is going to be Canberra based. Starting with CBR-BNE, and then eventually expanding to CBR-SYD, and CBR-MEL. They will slowly take over the 737-400's routes as they get retired out. It looks like this base has been established, Qantas will then base a 717 starting in mid 2014, doing HBA-MEL and HBA-SYD. I believe these will take over the Dash routes.
I hope they can get enough people of the appropriate standard to fly them.
While it is a great place to work, and the aeroplane is certainly a cut above the rest. The company still has some work to do in relation to its staff. I am told there are numerous issues to be overcome, not least of which is the companies total lack of adherence to the contract. Some extremely unhappy people up front still.
While it is a great place to work, and the aeroplane is certainly a cut above the rest. The company still has some work to do in relation to its staff. I am told there are numerous issues to be overcome, not least of which is the companies total lack of adherence to the contract. Some extremely unhappy people up front still.
There is so much corporate spin behind these announcements. It's a shame the journalists don't scrutinise the history a bit more rather than just re-wording the company produced press releases. Perhaps if they had, the actual story might have read something like this:
Today Qantas announced further changes to its services operating in and out of Hobart to take effect from mid 2014.
The port has seen numerous changes in service type and equipment, particularly over the last 15 years, with the national carrier seemingly unable to settle on a consistent service type or product offering for the state. This has given rise to growing frustration from locals and tourists alike and calls from government and business for Qantas to offer increased accessibility.
The changes announced today by Qantas add to the many from the last decade or more. In the mid-1990s, Hobart was serviced by up to six daily services to the mainland using Boeing 767 and 737 jets. Later, these were complemented with the Qantas regional subsidiary Southern, who had a crew base in Launceston, with BAe 146 jets.
Major changes took place to services to Hobart in the early 2000s following Qantas' acquisition of Impulse Airlines and the launch in 2004 of low cost carrier Jetstar. This saw Qantas mainline exit the Hobart market completely and business groups in particular were upset with this decision. It came as a surprise given the then monopoly Qantas had on all Business Class and other high yield traffic that Qantas had at the time in Hobart.
Having established a Jetstar crew base in Hobart, Qantas announced only a short time after that base would be closed and that the aircraft would no longer overnight in Hobart. This led to the loss of several company jobs in Hobart and forced some employees to relocate their families as far away as Darwin.
With rival Virgin Australia's growing emphasis on the business market in recent years, Qantas decided to reintroduce mainline services to the capital city using Boeing 737 jets. Many loyal customers were confused, however, with the company's decision not to offer the same product as other City Flyer services despite the fact Hobart is a capital city.
Last year, Qantas announced further changes to its schedule and equipment. The mainline 737 would no longer overnight at Hobart and would instead be replaced by a Qantaslink Dash 8 turboprop aircraft with a capacity of only 74 seats. This came as a surprise to many customers who knew that, in a strong northerly headwind, the service to Melbourne would take around 2 hours' flight time. Many punters voted with their feet and switched their allegiance to Virgin.
Today's announcement sees the reintroduction of 717 jets to Hobart and the withdrawal, yet again, of Qantas mainline 737 jets. The 717 is the same type of aircraft previously operated by the Qantas owned Impulse Airlines and briefly by Jetstar. The difference, however, is that the operation of these services will be outsourced by Qantas to Cobham Aviation. Although painted in Qantas livery, and operated by staff wearing Qantas uniforms, the aircraft are not owned, operated or maintained by Qantas employees.
Cobham and Qantas have not yet provided any details of how many services will operate into Hobart. Government and business are concerned that the much smaller 717 aircraft may reduce the capacity being offered in to the sensitive market which is heavily reliant on tourism and freight capacity for its export businesses such as fresh seafood.
The lack of consistency of services by Qantas to Hobart and frequent capacity, product and schedule changes remain a concern for all travellers in the island state. Some have suggested this may be due to the lack of corporate memory that exists in managerial ranks in Qantas. Others believe that KPIs in Qantas are are heavily linked to manager bonuses. Whatever the case, Hobartians will be hoping that the latest changes by Qantas will finally offer what they have been demanding for a long time: a consistent and accessible service that connects to mainland ports.
Today Qantas announced further changes to its services operating in and out of Hobart to take effect from mid 2014.
The port has seen numerous changes in service type and equipment, particularly over the last 15 years, with the national carrier seemingly unable to settle on a consistent service type or product offering for the state. This has given rise to growing frustration from locals and tourists alike and calls from government and business for Qantas to offer increased accessibility.
The changes announced today by Qantas add to the many from the last decade or more. In the mid-1990s, Hobart was serviced by up to six daily services to the mainland using Boeing 767 and 737 jets. Later, these were complemented with the Qantas regional subsidiary Southern, who had a crew base in Launceston, with BAe 146 jets.
Major changes took place to services to Hobart in the early 2000s following Qantas' acquisition of Impulse Airlines and the launch in 2004 of low cost carrier Jetstar. This saw Qantas mainline exit the Hobart market completely and business groups in particular were upset with this decision. It came as a surprise given the then monopoly Qantas had on all Business Class and other high yield traffic that Qantas had at the time in Hobart.
Having established a Jetstar crew base in Hobart, Qantas announced only a short time after that base would be closed and that the aircraft would no longer overnight in Hobart. This led to the loss of several company jobs in Hobart and forced some employees to relocate their families as far away as Darwin.
With rival Virgin Australia's growing emphasis on the business market in recent years, Qantas decided to reintroduce mainline services to the capital city using Boeing 737 jets. Many loyal customers were confused, however, with the company's decision not to offer the same product as other City Flyer services despite the fact Hobart is a capital city.
Last year, Qantas announced further changes to its schedule and equipment. The mainline 737 would no longer overnight at Hobart and would instead be replaced by a Qantaslink Dash 8 turboprop aircraft with a capacity of only 74 seats. This came as a surprise to many customers who knew that, in a strong northerly headwind, the service to Melbourne would take around 2 hours' flight time. Many punters voted with their feet and switched their allegiance to Virgin.
Today's announcement sees the reintroduction of 717 jets to Hobart and the withdrawal, yet again, of Qantas mainline 737 jets. The 717 is the same type of aircraft previously operated by the Qantas owned Impulse Airlines and briefly by Jetstar. The difference, however, is that the operation of these services will be outsourced by Qantas to Cobham Aviation. Although painted in Qantas livery, and operated by staff wearing Qantas uniforms, the aircraft are not owned, operated or maintained by Qantas employees.
Cobham and Qantas have not yet provided any details of how many services will operate into Hobart. Government and business are concerned that the much smaller 717 aircraft may reduce the capacity being offered in to the sensitive market which is heavily reliant on tourism and freight capacity for its export businesses such as fresh seafood.
The lack of consistency of services by Qantas to Hobart and frequent capacity, product and schedule changes remain a concern for all travellers in the island state. Some have suggested this may be due to the lack of corporate memory that exists in managerial ranks in Qantas. Others believe that KPIs in Qantas are are heavily linked to manager bonuses. Whatever the case, Hobartians will be hoping that the latest changes by Qantas will finally offer what they have been demanding for a long time: a consistent and accessible service that connects to mainland ports.
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Hi Buckshot,
Just FYI. Cobham pilots do not wear qantas uniforms.
I agree it has been a joke in tassi, but in all honesty, the 717 will suit the sector perfectly for size and speed.
Nonetheless, aviation is a fickle game, and no doubt, tassi will see changes again.
Just FYI. Cobham pilots do not wear qantas uniforms.
I agree it has been a joke in tassi, but in all honesty, the 717 will suit the sector perfectly for size and speed.
Nonetheless, aviation is a fickle game, and no doubt, tassi will see changes again.
Although I agree with a few things in Buckshots post (especially regarding quality of journalism) there are a few items that I think are a bit out.
Yes, Cobham do operate and maintain the 717s, however the aircraft are still owned by Qantas.
As mentioned the schedule for the 717 out of Hobart has not been released as of yet so one can not accurately predict if there will be an increase or reduction to the amount of seats or freight capability to and from Hobart when the 717 is introduced to the route.
Having said that, based on the Department of Infrastructure's Domestic Airline Activity report for 2012 Hobart was the 9th busiest airport based on passenger movements with about 1.92 million passengers (for comparison interest 8th position went to Canberra with about 3.07 million and Adelaide 5th with 6.45 million), this only accounts for 1.7% of the national total of domestic pax movements so although Hobart is a capital city I don't know if it required a "City Flyer" based service on those numbers.
The report also states that the Hobart - Melbourne is the country's 10th Top Domestic Route with 1.24 million passengers travelling the route in 2012 with a total of 1.57 million seats being provided over 9072 flights. This equated to a load factor of 79.1%. The same route in 2011 saw 1.16 million passengers, 1.35 million seats on 8032 flights with a load factor of 85.8%. This shows that just because there are less seats available it does not necessarily mean there will be less passengers on the route, and the increased load factor shows that it could mean that better sized aircraft or a more appropriate amount of flights are being used/conducted on the route.
As mentioned before the frequency of operation has for the 717 has not been announced but based on the current schedule of Hobart to Melbourne there are 410 Qantas seats per weekday, 79.1% of that is 325 (rounded up) passengers per day, if the 717 was to directly replace the same flights it would provided 330 seats per day in the two class cabin configuration with a 98.48% load factor (I know that realistically this load factor would not eventuate but if it did it would be excellent aircraft utilisation would it not?).
Of interest the figures show that 2011 had a reduction on seats on that sector from 2010 resulting in better load factors and 2012 has seen an increase in seats with a reduction of load factor again.
All of the above mentioned stats are not solely based on Qantas alone but all movements to and from Hobart, therefore my assumptions for calculations have been based on the information provided on all operations and translated into the Qantas operation from there as I do not have access to Qantas operation only figures.
Check Thrust.
Yes, Cobham do operate and maintain the 717s, however the aircraft are still owned by Qantas.
As mentioned the schedule for the 717 out of Hobart has not been released as of yet so one can not accurately predict if there will be an increase or reduction to the amount of seats or freight capability to and from Hobart when the 717 is introduced to the route.
Having said that, based on the Department of Infrastructure's Domestic Airline Activity report for 2012 Hobart was the 9th busiest airport based on passenger movements with about 1.92 million passengers (for comparison interest 8th position went to Canberra with about 3.07 million and Adelaide 5th with 6.45 million), this only accounts for 1.7% of the national total of domestic pax movements so although Hobart is a capital city I don't know if it required a "City Flyer" based service on those numbers.
The report also states that the Hobart - Melbourne is the country's 10th Top Domestic Route with 1.24 million passengers travelling the route in 2012 with a total of 1.57 million seats being provided over 9072 flights. This equated to a load factor of 79.1%. The same route in 2011 saw 1.16 million passengers, 1.35 million seats on 8032 flights with a load factor of 85.8%. This shows that just because there are less seats available it does not necessarily mean there will be less passengers on the route, and the increased load factor shows that it could mean that better sized aircraft or a more appropriate amount of flights are being used/conducted on the route.
As mentioned before the frequency of operation has for the 717 has not been announced but based on the current schedule of Hobart to Melbourne there are 410 Qantas seats per weekday, 79.1% of that is 325 (rounded up) passengers per day, if the 717 was to directly replace the same flights it would provided 330 seats per day in the two class cabin configuration with a 98.48% load factor (I know that realistically this load factor would not eventuate but if it did it would be excellent aircraft utilisation would it not?).
Of interest the figures show that 2011 had a reduction on seats on that sector from 2010 resulting in better load factors and 2012 has seen an increase in seats with a reduction of load factor again.
All of the above mentioned stats are not solely based on Qantas alone but all movements to and from Hobart, therefore my assumptions for calculations have been based on the information provided on all operations and translated into the Qantas operation from there as I do not have access to Qantas operation only figures.
Check Thrust.
Funny, really, all the buzz about Cobham not being 'real QANTAS' and 'wow, if the public only knew the real story' kind of argument, but the same can be said for Eastern and Sunstate's Qlink and Southern before that (or any regional on the planet sporting the coadshare and colours of the bigger parent company.
There was an interesting drift at the beginning of this thread, though, reference Network. Have they received the RPT stamp yet? do they have red tails now also?
There was an interesting drift at the beginning of this thread, though, reference Network. Have they received the RPT stamp yet? do they have red tails now also?
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Originally Posted by Buttscratcher
Funny, really, all the buzz about Cobham not being 'real QANTAS' and 'wow, if the public only knew the real story' kind of argument, but the same can be said for Eastern and Sunstate's Qlink and Southern before that (or any regional on the planet sporting the coadshare and colours of the bigger parent company.
No doubt I'll also be seeing "OPERATED BY COBHAM" when I fly in and out of CB in the near future
Originally Posted by bankrunner
No doubt I'll also be seeing "OPERATED BY COBHAM" when I fly in and out of CB in the near future
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 13th Oct 2013 at 23:23. Reason: spel chek failed.
Yep no surprises there
Just like Air France's Paris to London City ... 'Operated by CityJet'
ANA Tokyo to Honolulu....'operated by Air Japan'
NorthWest LA to Vegas...'operated by Reno Airlines'
And if you purchased a QANTAS ticket to Berlin....'Operated by Emirates'
I sure don't have a problem with any of this, and I can't see why Cobham is any different.
I expect the traveling Joe may be pissed however paying a full QANTAS fare and getting dumped at the last minute to a ....now 'Operated by Jetstar'. Then again, that belongs in another thread whinge
Just like Air France's Paris to London City ... 'Operated by CityJet'
ANA Tokyo to Honolulu....'operated by Air Japan'
NorthWest LA to Vegas...'operated by Reno Airlines'
And if you purchased a QANTAS ticket to Berlin....'Operated by Emirates'
I sure don't have a problem with any of this, and I can't see why Cobham is any different.
I expect the traveling Joe may be pissed however paying a full QANTAS fare and getting dumped at the last minute to a ....now 'Operated by Jetstar'. Then again, that belongs in another thread whinge
No doubt I'll also be seeing "OPERATED BY COBHAM" when I fly in and out of CB in the near future
Qantas has previous form for screwing around Tasmanians and National Jet (Cobham).
Launceston has Australia's most expensive freight shed. It was originally built by National Jet at the behest of Qantas to set up an overnight base for the 146's. The Hangar was built and fitted out with all the good gear, LAMEs employed and relocated at great expense, only to be told by Qantas management after about two months of operation "oh we don't need that now....". Nice one.
Launceston has Australia's most expensive freight shed. It was originally built by National Jet at the behest of Qantas to set up an overnight base for the 146's. The Hangar was built and fitted out with all the good gear, LAMEs employed and relocated at great expense, only to be told by Qantas management after about two months of operation "oh we don't need that now....". Nice one.
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Buttscatcher
I think you will find EK don't operate to Berlin, the Germans, as are many European countries, are concerned about possible predatory behavior.
And if you purchased a Delta ticket to Atlanta it was operated as Comair 5191.
And if you purchased a Continental ticket to Buffalo it was operated as Colgan 3407 etc.
You lose control of your product and it's only cheaper until you have an incident caused by pilots being forced to sleep on park benches and accepting the lowest possible standards.
Personally I prefer my family to fly on aircraft with two or more well rested, well paid and very well trained and tested pilots.
And if you purchased a QANTAS ticket to Berlin....'Operated by Emirates'
And if you purchased a Delta ticket to Atlanta it was operated as Comair 5191.
And if you purchased a Continental ticket to Buffalo it was operated as Colgan 3407 etc.
You lose control of your product and it's only cheaper until you have an incident caused by pilots being forced to sleep on park benches and accepting the lowest possible standards.
Personally I prefer my family to fly on aircraft with two or more well rested, well paid and very well trained and tested pilots.
