When is the next cull at QF Engineering?
un-skilled labour simply can't get paid $100K+++
By the way, which unions are you talking about, the AMMA, the MMAA or perhaps AMA ?
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Originally Posted by Sunfish
The way Abbott and Co. are operating, there will be no negotiation next time. You will simply be told. Furthermore, the Labor Party won't come to your aid either.
Romulus:
As you know I am a "natural" Liberal voter with faith in free markets.
What concerns me is that Abbot and Co. are from the hard right of the party and are friends of the miners and big Agriculture. Since they are "price takers" they see anything that increases their costs as anathema. That includes a thriving manufacturing sector which, by definition, increases the value of the Australian dollar.
To put that another way, Abbotss backers see themselves as the natural Aristocracy and dont mind seeing the rest of the country become peasantry. Similar forces are at work in Britain and of course the USA, all having taken a leaf out of the Russian Kleptocracy playbook.
To put that another way, the Abbott Government has no intention whatsoever of raising the living standards of average Australians, quite the reverse. The intention is to maximise the income differentials and marginalise and disenfranchise the poor. I would expect to see attempts at "voter ID" and similar laws in the second term.
To put that another way; the "personal responsibility" (ie: there is no social compact) mantra will be followed by the "choices" mantra (blaming the poor for their own circumstances). That will be followed by voter ID laws and an attack on compulsory voting if American Conservative thought is any guide.
Oh Yes! And gated communities to insulate the well off from the consequences of the policies they espouse.
Sorry to say I'm a "small l" liberal like Peter Costello, not an arsehole like Eric Abetz.
Really Sunny? I expected better from you. There is no need to be a LNP lickspittle, but basing your arguments on facts and logical outcomes would be a minimum I would expect from you.
What concerns me is that Abbot and Co. are from the hard right of the party and are friends of the miners and big Agriculture. Since they are "price takers" they see anything that increases their costs as anathema. That includes a thriving manufacturing sector which, by definition, increases the value of the Australian dollar.
To put that another way, Abbotss backers see themselves as the natural Aristocracy and dont mind seeing the rest of the country become peasantry. Similar forces are at work in Britain and of course the USA, all having taken a leaf out of the Russian Kleptocracy playbook.
To put that another way, the Abbott Government has no intention whatsoever of raising the living standards of average Australians, quite the reverse. The intention is to maximise the income differentials and marginalise and disenfranchise the poor. I would expect to see attempts at "voter ID" and similar laws in the second term.
To put that another way; the "personal responsibility" (ie: there is no social compact) mantra will be followed by the "choices" mantra (blaming the poor for their own circumstances). That will be followed by voter ID laws and an attack on compulsory voting if American Conservative thought is any guide.
Oh Yes! And gated communities to insulate the well off from the consequences of the policies they espouse.
Sorry to say I'm a "small l" liberal like Peter Costello, not an arsehole like Eric Abetz.
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It was reported in USA today a couple months back when GM withdrew from Australia. The guy's on GM/Holden production line screwing in the seatbelt bolts etc were on AUD $110K with a lot of vacation and extra days off. That's an example.
It was reported in USA today a couple months back when GM withdrew from Australia. The guy's on GM/Holden production line screwing in the seatbelt bolts etc were on AUD $110K with a lot of vacation and extra days off. That's an example.
Its just like Qantas Management told the media that supposedly some LAME's at QF are on >$200K and some A380 Captains are on $500k and some CSM's are on $150k, its just a load of bull**** and even if it was true, they would have to have worked an absolute ridiculous amount of overtime. I dare say it would be the same scenario at holden.
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Open challenge to QANTAS staff
I would love to see a 20+ year LAME scan their current payslip, cover all identifying items and post on here…………….
waiting……………..
Didn't think so.
waiting……………..
Didn't think so.
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I would love to see a 20+ year LAME scan their current payslip, cover all identifying items and post on here…………….
If you were to consult the Licensed Engineers award I am sure you would find all that you need to know. If I hazard to guess, I might say I am in the vicinity of $50ph to keep the public (and my employer's property) taking off and landing safely and in one piece. I know garbage truck drivers who claim to earn more.
Payslips are irrelevant unless a company needs the info.
What I can tell you after running a number of small businesses is that the CEO earns less than just about anyone. And that is because the CEO understands everyone's job (and can usually do it better themselves) and values future growth, but more importantly SERIOUSLY values every single minute of work that people do. Because he/she has done it themselves. That to me, is the principle difference between small and large businesses.
It's the guy who buys that company that doesn't get the value.
I am a net employer and believe me, in this country we need lower wages for non skilled work. I'm talking plate cleaners on Sunday or after 6pm on weekdays (even if they only work those hours each week) legally getting $60++per hour. And no, I am NOT kidding.
What pisses me off to the point of not caring is that people like you guys kept Qantas aircraft the safest in the world so I could feel proud to be Australian, then these cretins come in to run the place who think you are worth less than a person whose qualifications are that they (usually) turn up on time and can spread flora on a slice of bread.
This govt is all about attacking that ludicrous state of play, but unfortunately we are all falling foul of the QF lies. Spread from (make no mistake) dearest Livvie's lips through the mouth of that slimey pole climber Howes.
For seriously educated 'workers' like you and I - we are nothing but collateral damage.
Whenever I speak to parliament people (and I do) I tell them exactly what is what. And they listen. But it's scales of justice thing, wins v losses. We just don't have the pull with 'the masses'.
What I can tell you after running a number of small businesses is that the CEO earns less than just about anyone. And that is because the CEO understands everyone's job (and can usually do it better themselves) and values future growth, but more importantly SERIOUSLY values every single minute of work that people do. Because he/she has done it themselves. That to me, is the principle difference between small and large businesses.
It's the guy who buys that company that doesn't get the value.
I am a net employer and believe me, in this country we need lower wages for non skilled work. I'm talking plate cleaners on Sunday or after 6pm on weekdays (even if they only work those hours each week) legally getting $60++per hour. And no, I am NOT kidding.
What pisses me off to the point of not caring is that people like you guys kept Qantas aircraft the safest in the world so I could feel proud to be Australian, then these cretins come in to run the place who think you are worth less than a person whose qualifications are that they (usually) turn up on time and can spread flora on a slice of bread.
This govt is all about attacking that ludicrous state of play, but unfortunately we are all falling foul of the QF lies. Spread from (make no mistake) dearest Livvie's lips through the mouth of that slimey pole climber Howes.
For seriously educated 'workers' like you and I - we are nothing but collateral damage.
Whenever I speak to parliament people (and I do) I tell them exactly what is what. And they listen. But it's scales of justice thing, wins v losses. We just don't have the pull with 'the masses'.
Last edited by V-Jet; 20th Feb 2014 at 09:55.
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Sorry to say I'm a "small l" liberal like Peter Costello, not an arsehole like Eric Abetz.
To borrow your oft used phrase, to put that another way, does your statement only serve as a political comment from the left liberals about the far right or was there more to say and I've missed it?
One mantra you missed though,was "we have a mandate from the voters" and will quote this when justifying a shift from stated policy for example, an action not confined to the Libs ("no GST") with Labor("no carbon tax") as guilty.
Last edited by AEROMEDIC; 21st Feb 2014 at 08:39. Reason: typo
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Peter "Dollar Sweets" Costello is most certainly NOT small "L" Liberal.
Malcolm Turnbull possibly, but certainly not Costello.
As for the rest, well, I think I'll leave you to that.
Malcolm Turnbull possibly, but certainly not Costello.
As for the rest, well, I think I'll leave you to that.
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No one is to blame for this **** except Rudd, Gillard and their Labor party cronies. Then you add unions into the mix, work out that at places like QF, Alcoa etc un-skilled labour simply can't get paid $100K+++.
I would love to see a 20+ year LAME scan their current payslip, cover all identifying items and post on here…………….
waiting……………..
Didn't think so.
waiting……………..
Didn't think so.
Anyway, EBAs are easily available on the fwc website. Why post payslips when the proper info can be found in a flash?
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According to the AFR Melbourne and Adelaide Line Maintenance look set to be completely gutted.
On top of all the redundancies at AVV, QF HEAVY TULLA, JHAS and now QF Line Maint. Victoria looks to become an aviation maintenance wasteland....
On top of all the redundancies at AVV, QF HEAVY TULLA, JHAS and now QF Line Maint. Victoria looks to become an aviation maintenance wasteland....
ENGINEERS BRACE FOR CUTS
Qantas engineers are bracing for heavy cuts in the line maintenance bases at Melbourne and Adelaide, said Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers’ Association federal secretary Steve Purvinas.
“I know there are going to be changes in engineering,” he said on Tuesday. “[Engineering managers] have been running a series of roadshows telling employees to brace themselves.”
Mr Purvinas said Qantas was now referring to a “golden triangle” of maintenance in Sydney, Brisbane and Perth.
“We think the ports not included in that will be hit hardest,” he said, referring to Melbourne and Adelaide.
Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce will hold a meeting with union leaders on Friday but Mr Purvinas said the ALAEA would not participate.
“We don’t see the need to talk to him, because the things he says aren’t part of reality,” Mr Purvinas said.
After the results announcement on Thursday, Qantas Domestic chief executive Lyell Strambi and Qantas International chief executive Simon Hickey will answer questions from staff at a town hall meeting at the airline’s Mascot headquarters.
Qantas engineers are bracing for heavy cuts in the line maintenance bases at Melbourne and Adelaide, said Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers’ Association federal secretary Steve Purvinas.
“I know there are going to be changes in engineering,” he said on Tuesday. “[Engineering managers] have been running a series of roadshows telling employees to brace themselves.”
Mr Purvinas said Qantas was now referring to a “golden triangle” of maintenance in Sydney, Brisbane and Perth.
“We think the ports not included in that will be hit hardest,” he said, referring to Melbourne and Adelaide.
Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce will hold a meeting with union leaders on Friday but Mr Purvinas said the ALAEA would not participate.
“We don’t see the need to talk to him, because the things he says aren’t part of reality,” Mr Purvinas said.
After the results announcement on Thursday, Qantas Domestic chief executive Lyell Strambi and Qantas International chief executive Simon Hickey will answer questions from staff at a town hall meeting at the airline’s Mascot headquarters.
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Fed Sec, other than the understanding that Alan will be talking nonsense on Friday, is there another reason for non-attendance?
Sure, you might believe it is a waste of time - but what about those LAMEs throughout Australia (and the world) who are paying their union dues, surely they would at least find solace that you at least went for a coffee on Friday and were there to represent them. Where else are the LAMEs going to turn to get proper information that hasn't been put through the Qantas miss-info system?
You've got the skills and knowledge to cut through the chaff and see things for what they really are - but not from a distance, you need to go and at least listen, then let the troops know your thoughts straight from the horses mouth - not through runout and speculation.
It just seems odd that a union isn't going to a meeting because they think the CEO is on another planet... I thought it's fairly normal there will be differences of opinion. Even if you think Alan is crazy as a coconut, the public announcement via the media screams of a pouting child.
Sure, you might believe it is a waste of time - but what about those LAMEs throughout Australia (and the world) who are paying their union dues, surely they would at least find solace that you at least went for a coffee on Friday and were there to represent them. Where else are the LAMEs going to turn to get proper information that hasn't been put through the Qantas miss-info system?
You've got the skills and knowledge to cut through the chaff and see things for what they really are - but not from a distance, you need to go and at least listen, then let the troops know your thoughts straight from the horses mouth - not through runout and speculation.
It just seems odd that a union isn't going to a meeting because they think the CEO is on another planet... I thought it's fairly normal there will be differences of opinion. Even if you think Alan is crazy as a coconut, the public announcement via the media screams of a pouting child.
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Yes, I agree, even if it's just to come back and say "I told you so".
If you don't go, get Paul Cousins to go and report back.
Your members can do with a reminder of how devisive these guys can be.
If you don't go, get Paul Cousins to go and report back.
Your members can do with a reminder of how devisive these guys can be.
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I am due to explain this decision about not attending a meeting with Mr Joyce on Friday in an email to members today. So far it reads -
ALAEA not Meeting with CEO on Friday
We’ve been to enough of these meetings to know that it will be a waste of time. They will show the same presentation that is released to the stock exchange, ask if we have any questions and then never answer one of them directly. No new information would be forthcoming. Additionally the ACTU people who know nothing about Aviation will take the lead making irrelevant points and limiting what we could say for the sake of harmony. The ACTU would most likely form a position on our behalf backed by big unions with a handful of Qantas members that would lock us into a position that would be to the detriment of our members. We need to conduct our consultation in different forums free from ACTU influence.
If we were present at the Friday meeting it also would mean that every union was present. If that was the case it would allow Qantas to make public comments about “all the unions understanding our issues”. There needs to be one union absent to prevent allowance of these erroneous comments and that will be us.
ALAEA not Meeting with CEO on Friday
We’ve been to enough of these meetings to know that it will be a waste of time. They will show the same presentation that is released to the stock exchange, ask if we have any questions and then never answer one of them directly. No new information would be forthcoming. Additionally the ACTU people who know nothing about Aviation will take the lead making irrelevant points and limiting what we could say for the sake of harmony. The ACTU would most likely form a position on our behalf backed by big unions with a handful of Qantas members that would lock us into a position that would be to the detriment of our members. We need to conduct our consultation in different forums free from ACTU influence.
If we were present at the Friday meeting it also would mean that every union was present. If that was the case it would allow Qantas to make public comments about “all the unions understanding our issues”. There needs to be one union absent to prevent allowance of these erroneous comments and that will be us.