Virgin Aircraft 'Emergency' Landing
I reckon Steves story has merit, I have it on good authority that the QF pilot happened to be none other than the same skipper who was paxing on the 767 about to ditch in Perth and told the crew to autoland it.
Awesome tales, petty they're both bullshyte
Awesome tales, petty they're both bullshyte
Last edited by chookcooker; 11th Jul 2013 at 07:09.
DA the fuel policy you present does not explain the A330 autoland in 2004. Similar scenario to the QF737. Unforecast fog, alternate available but continues to destination and autolands in SY. On that day QF2, 744 using the same fuel policy, diverts to CB. I'm sure that if ADL had a CATIII ILS it would have been a consideration for both crews in their diversion decisions.\
If a CATIII ILS was available and 1 aircraft diverted to MIA and 1 went to ADL and autolanded, which aircraft was presented with the higher risk? In the black and white world of rules and regs which aircraft would be more correct in the decision that was made? In my mind there is no right or wrong just what do I consider the safest course of action.
If a CATIII ILS was available and 1 aircraft diverted to MIA and 1 went to ADL and autolanded, which aircraft was presented with the higher risk? In the black and white world of rules and regs which aircraft would be more correct in the decision that was made? In my mind there is no right or wrong just what do I consider the safest course of action.
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Lone pine,
According to the data on Flightradar and Flightaware, Virgin started their diversion 10 mins before Qantas. The Virgin aircraft was also closer to Mildura than Qantas and arrived in the circuit first.
According to the data on Flightradar and Flightaware, Virgin started their diversion 10 mins before Qantas. The Virgin aircraft was also closer to Mildura than Qantas and arrived in the circuit first.
Last edited by BPA; 11th Jul 2013 at 08:20.
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As I said earlier, I'd love to see CAT3 ILS at all capital city airports in this country. However, its availability at Adelaide wouldn't have changed the outcome for the QF flight in this instance as they would still have been legally required to divert.
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I only have one side of the story so I ain't going there on here. Apart from getting howled down by those it might upset, it is only one side. It can wait till the report.
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I don't know call me old fashioned but common sense would dictate that you would be far better to do a coupled approach at ADL with Auto Land and argue about it later with CASA than the grief you give yourself and pax by winding up in a place like MIA with not enough fuel to start a fire or BBQ.
One wonders why places like Edinburgh or Whyalla weren't considered if your in that frame of mind - much closer.
Give me a precision approach anytime though no matter what the conditions.
One wonders why places like Edinburgh or Whyalla weren't considered if your in that frame of mind - much closer.
Give me a precision approach anytime though no matter what the conditions.
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tenrenti,
Think about it... and you should be able to answer it.
ATSB are due to publish their preliminary report next week, so some of the gaps in the event should be filled and the stories floating around ie icemansteeve's above should be put to bed.
Think about it... and you should be able to answer it.
ATSB are due to publish their preliminary report next week, so some of the gaps in the event should be filled and the stories floating around ie icemansteeve's above should be put to bed.
Last edited by BPA; 11th Jul 2013 at 10:18.
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Mildura is not an alternate airport? It can be. Why would you think i can't?
You would not carry Mildura as a weather alternate in normal operations.
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It is not an alternate airport for the B737-800. Emergencies only.
Last edited by S70IP; 11th Jul 2013 at 13:06.
DA,
It indeed got a bit late last night and therefore thanks for your explanation of what (in a nutshell I assume) is the QF fuel policy - makes sense now why you were talking about alternate minima AFTER dispatch if destination = alternate (ie. you don't have one).
As I indicated in my previous posts in my company we ALWAYS carry an alternate but one remote destination (Perth of all places) and the conditions and TAF to be met for latter are very strict.
I guess your fuel policy works alright if the forecasts are good enough - the only thing I am not comfortable with is its application at a single runway destination; but that discussion deserves a different thread.
AB
It indeed got a bit late last night and therefore thanks for your explanation of what (in a nutshell I assume) is the QF fuel policy - makes sense now why you were talking about alternate minima AFTER dispatch if destination = alternate (ie. you don't have one).
As I indicated in my previous posts in my company we ALWAYS carry an alternate but one remote destination (Perth of all places) and the conditions and TAF to be met for latter are very strict.
I guess your fuel policy works alright if the forecasts are good enough - the only thing I am not comfortable with is its application at a single runway destination; but that discussion deserves a different thread.
AB
AQIS, you could try this one for a discussion on the QF fuel policy.
http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...el-policy.html
That's why I was loathe to enter into too much discussion. I certainly don't want to get in to the idea of whether it's good or bad. It is what it is and the crew have to work within it as best they can.
I should perhaps have been clearer and specified "destination alternate criteria" as opposed to "alternate criteria" to avoid confusion between the two ports but you are correct in that QF don't generally carry an alternate unless required by weather.
See the linked thread for opinions on that one - the discussion is fraught!
Cheers.
http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...el-policy.html
That's why I was loathe to enter into too much discussion. I certainly don't want to get in to the idea of whether it's good or bad. It is what it is and the crew have to work within it as best they can.
I should perhaps have been clearer and specified "destination alternate criteria" as opposed to "alternate criteria" to avoid confusion between the two ports but you are correct in that QF don't generally carry an alternate unless required by weather.
See the linked thread for opinions on that one - the discussion is fraught!
Cheers.
Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 11th Jul 2013 at 19:26.
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CASA Guidelines
from 2006, this CAAP 234 1(1) forms the guidelines for fuel policy. It used to be in the AIP before then.
I tried to provide a link but its not working. Search CASA 234 and it comes up.
I tried to provide a link but its not working. Search CASA 234 and it comes up.
Last edited by zone; 12th Jul 2013 at 00:46. Reason: link edit
S70IP
Quote:
"It is not an alternate airport for the B737-800. Emergencies only."
Complete BS. I have landed there 3 times in a 737 when a Ejet went U/S. only issue is pavement concession which the company sorts out. 4 movements in 7 days "range" in PCN/ACN.
Quote:
"It is not an alternate airport for the B737-800. Emergencies only."
Complete BS. I have landed there 3 times in a 737 when a Ejet went U/S. only issue is pavement concession which the company sorts out. 4 movements in 7 days "range" in PCN/ACN.
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YMIA is indeed a Cat C airport. This means that for the 738 it would not be PLANNED as an alternate. This does not mean that it cannot be USED as an alternate.
It is not defined as an emergency airport.
Not sure but i think the difference between cat c for the 738 versus cat a for the 734 relates to the ACN for each type.
It is not defined as an emergency airport.
Not sure but i think the difference between cat c for the 738 versus cat a for the 734 relates to the ACN for each type.