Qlink's future.
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32Mp,Your career progression is at Virgin (or Jetstar, but preferably an FO). Can't speak for Jetstar, but you can't beat the lifestyle at Virgin (in comparison to EAA). You get a minimum of 3 or 4 days more off per roster, plus a bidding system which (I think) is generally free of cronyism (unlike the EAA system).
Plus you're not working for a bunch of narcissists
and THAT makes all the difference 
Alternatively, can you wait until 2018 (if ever)?
Plus you're not working for a bunch of narcissists
and THAT makes all the difference Alternatively, can you wait until 2018 (if ever)?
Last edited by Hugh Jarse; 16th May 2013 at 10:46.
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HJ,
I believe we have net many years ago. It is SsA. Anyway, I wish I had been in your inner circle when you left as I would have been influenced in a positive way and probably not stuck flying this prop with false promises! Trust me, I am on the look for a new job, but what is left? Virgin has just put out a rubbish profit forecast via stock exchange today and with the possible expansion of tiger, your going to perhaps never see the left seat of a 737? I don't know, but unless you left for virgin in 2007, then you'll be waiting sometime. If I came to virgin now....12-15 years for left seat 737! F me!
I believe we have net many years ago. It is SsA. Anyway, I wish I had been in your inner circle when you left as I would have been influenced in a positive way and probably not stuck flying this prop with false promises! Trust me, I am on the look for a new job, but what is left? Virgin has just put out a rubbish profit forecast via stock exchange today and with the possible expansion of tiger, your going to perhaps never see the left seat of a 737? I don't know, but unless you left for virgin in 2007, then you'll be waiting sometime. If I came to virgin now....12-15 years for left seat 737! F me!
Works both ways 32MP-if I left my position as a TRI on the 777 to go to Sunnies I would be offered what? - thats right a RHS on a D-8 (assuming I could pass the selection 
)!. Thats one of the -many-problems with aviation. It's all about timing. Have a look at the 'Senior BA thread in R & N' for some interesting pro's and cons of seniority.
)!. Thats one of the -many-problems with aviation. It's all about timing. Have a look at the 'Senior BA thread in R & N' for some interesting pro's and cons of seniority.
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And what career progression would that be Jarse? C'mon you know it's pretty much screwed where you are, anyone coming in now would be 10 yrs, minimum! Gone are the days of the Cheiftan driver being a 73 skipper within a year...
As long as you don't have some b*ner about having to be a captain, at least for the 10 years you wait you'll get paid more, enjoy more quality days off, and not be hassled by management clowns.
I would say it's still worth it.
I would say it's still worth it.
I think the point that gets most drivers in the 'Q group' wound up, is that more flying is being given to a non 'Q Group' company. 
If the flying was to be given to SSA/EAA then at least it's staying in-house...
If the flying was to be given to SSA/EAA then at least it's staying in-house...
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Gidday 32MP,
This industry is full of ups and downs. One's choice to move on is influenced by any number of factors.
I thoroughly enjoyed the flying aspect of my time there (pilots, cabin and ground crew, engineers etc). Come sim or line check time, I felt reasonably comfortable going into checks. I was quite satisfied with what I was doing in the job overall. Never really had a bad day at work, but that was primarily because of the calibre of work colleagues, and in spite of what the narcissists were doing to us.
I guess you could say I was in my comfort zone
The trigger for me to move on was a combination of successive deteriorations of our conditions via the EBA system, and 'management fatigue'. In other words, EAA (the company) and its conditions on offer no longer met my expectations as an employee. So you can see my reasons for moving on are slightly different to yours.
It's really easy to find reasons NOT to do something about your career. After nearly 15 years I could have just stayed there and cruised along, but the situation described in the previous paragraph was overwhelming........
I never expected to end up where I am now. I'd never even considered this place for a career move, mainly because of my age and the 'young' corporate image I perceived. It was only after several former workmates (now working here) hassled me to put an application in that this happened. Yes, I took a pay cut. Yes, the share price tanked while I was on ground school. **** happens, but I took a longer term view of my prospects. I was mainly after a lifestyle change. The rest has been a bonus.
As for commands mentioned by some - I've been adversely affected by this new EBA, but I'm not stewing over it. As grrowler wrote, I don't have a stiffy over getting a command, and yes it's most likely moved back with the current climate (both industrial and economic). I'm not too worried about that, because I've just done a type change and need a fair bit more time on type anyway before I'd stick in a bid for a command. For me it's more lifestyle.
Yowie11, I take a different view to yours. I don't think it's screwed here at all. It's gonna take a while to find out just what's going on with our careers. It's early days yet
32MP, as I wrote, you can find reasons for not applying to a particular company. I know of two captains at EAA that were offered, and knocked back jobs here. Both claimed they couldn't afford the (initial) pay cut, and also had concerns about the company's viability. That may have been so in the short term, but they would now both be on considerably better remuneration AND lifestyle packages, had they made the move. They were in their comfort zones too.
If you're looking for a quick command, I can't think of any airline in Australia that can meet that expectation. You have to start somewhere.
Sorry 'bout the long post
This industry is full of ups and downs. One's choice to move on is influenced by any number of factors.
I thoroughly enjoyed the flying aspect of my time there (pilots, cabin and ground crew, engineers etc). Come sim or line check time, I felt reasonably comfortable going into checks. I was quite satisfied with what I was doing in the job overall. Never really had a bad day at work, but that was primarily because of the calibre of work colleagues, and in spite of what the narcissists were doing to us.
I guess you could say I was in my comfort zone
The trigger for me to move on was a combination of successive deteriorations of our conditions via the EBA system, and 'management fatigue'. In other words, EAA (the company) and its conditions on offer no longer met my expectations as an employee. So you can see my reasons for moving on are slightly different to yours.
It's really easy to find reasons NOT to do something about your career. After nearly 15 years I could have just stayed there and cruised along, but the situation described in the previous paragraph was overwhelming........
I never expected to end up where I am now. I'd never even considered this place for a career move, mainly because of my age and the 'young' corporate image I perceived. It was only after several former workmates (now working here) hassled me to put an application in that this happened. Yes, I took a pay cut. Yes, the share price tanked while I was on ground school. **** happens, but I took a longer term view of my prospects. I was mainly after a lifestyle change. The rest has been a bonus.
As for commands mentioned by some - I've been adversely affected by this new EBA, but I'm not stewing over it. As grrowler wrote, I don't have a stiffy over getting a command, and yes it's most likely moved back with the current climate (both industrial and economic). I'm not too worried about that, because I've just done a type change and need a fair bit more time on type anyway before I'd stick in a bid for a command. For me it's more lifestyle.
Yowie11, I take a different view to yours. I don't think it's screwed here at all. It's gonna take a while to find out just what's going on with our careers. It's early days yet
32MP, as I wrote, you can find reasons for not applying to a particular company. I know of two captains at EAA that were offered, and knocked back jobs here. Both claimed they couldn't afford the (initial) pay cut, and also had concerns about the company's viability. That may have been so in the short term, but they would now both be on considerably better remuneration AND lifestyle packages, had they made the move. They were in their comfort zones too.
If you're looking for a quick command, I can't think of any airline in Australia that can meet that expectation. You have to start somewhere.
Sorry 'bout the long post
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Virgin Embrarer
Capt 165
Fo 91-107
Skywest F100
Capt 141-158
Fo 91-103
Cobham 717
Capt 155
Fo 85-101
Capt 165
Fo 91-107
Skywest F100
Capt 141-158
Fo 91-103
Cobham 717
Capt 155
Fo 85-101
Is the b717 pay scale from the latest EBA negotiation? It was my understanding that as a FO, you start off as a level 5 (1st year) and that's around the 65k mark (ref from the 2007-2012 EBA). It goes up considerably after a few years in the company.
But if those are the true figures, it's similar to the regional jet rate at EAA.
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Yes Jarse, Amen... people don't leave a Company, they leave a management!
Chieftain to B737 in a year... quick commands & boners... let me just say many of those who did achieve this in the past where very lucky and have been shown to be undeserving (attitude-city) and well below par professionally. If you still want it, get to Asia but good luck! May I suggest a more rounded Aviation education instead of trying to jump levels...
"There's the lickers and there are the kickers!"
Sure, you want to chase this... be my guest but more importantly, work out where you want to be in life and follow that because sadly, this industry has been taken over by HR & Accountants and gone pear-shaped ever since. Family & friends are more important!
This QF Regional debate has been going on for decades and I dare say still will. It's just nice to see jobs and movement created.
Chieftain to B737 in a year... quick commands & boners... let me just say many of those who did achieve this in the past where very lucky and have been shown to be undeserving (attitude-city) and well below par professionally. If you still want it, get to Asia but good luck! May I suggest a more rounded Aviation education instead of trying to jump levels...
"There's the lickers and there are the kickers!"
Sure, you want to chase this... be my guest but more importantly, work out where you want to be in life and follow that because sadly, this industry has been taken over by HR & Accountants and gone pear-shaped ever since. Family & friends are more important!
This QF Regional debate has been going on for decades and I dare say still will. It's just nice to see jobs and movement created.
Last edited by Chocks Away; 17th May 2013 at 01:43.
Is the b717 pay scale from the latest EBA negotiation? It was my understanding that as a FO, you start off as a level 5 (1st year) and that's around the 65k mark (ref from the 2007-2012 EBA). It goes up considerably after a few years in the company.
Last edited by RENURPP; 17th May 2013 at 02:49.
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Seconds, TL...
To be fair, the TWU and the AFAP. An unusual but quite succesful union 'partnership' to improve B717 conditions.
An outcome that two posters on this thread said was impossible, and put 'job security' at risk.
Well last Wednesday April 15th the new Cobham EBA came into effect and the minimum pay rise was 4.7%. Some First Officers will be receiving pay rises in the order of 11%.
The minimum backpay that will be dished out on June 15th pay run will be $10k, and some former "B scale" B717 FO will be getting around $22,000 in backpay alone on that date as we move back to 'A scale' rates for B717 FO.
Well done AFAP and TWU.
It might not be mainline rates, but unlike the last 'non union aligned' pilot negotiation team of 2007, no pilot went backwards.
In fact all pilots got pay rises of $7k to $22k per annum.
Just goes to show what happens when pilots get together, work with their union(s), ignore minor differences, and show some balls and determination.
It was a long process though. Not helped by the nay-sayers that bleated "we will all lose our jobs."
Cobham EBA 2012. No pilot lost their job. Everybody got more money. Everybody got better conditions.
Within the week of it being rubber stamped by Fair Work Australia, the company announced 5x more airframes, two new bases (CBR and SYD) and a recruitment drive for 50+ crew.
Cobham B717 FO and DEC job ad The Australian
I'm sure that there will be still some that grumble about the unions at Cobham (AFAP and TWU). But they'll be banking the pay increases while they grumble!!
Thanks for the rough pay scales seconds. Looks like I was misinformed about Cobham's pay, obviously the TWU has done some good things there.
An outcome that two posters on this thread said was impossible, and put 'job security' at risk.
Well last Wednesday April 15th the new Cobham EBA came into effect and the minimum pay rise was 4.7%. Some First Officers will be receiving pay rises in the order of 11%.
The minimum backpay that will be dished out on June 15th pay run will be $10k, and some former "B scale" B717 FO will be getting around $22,000 in backpay alone on that date as we move back to 'A scale' rates for B717 FO.
Well done AFAP and TWU.
It might not be mainline rates, but unlike the last 'non union aligned' pilot negotiation team of 2007, no pilot went backwards.
In fact all pilots got pay rises of $7k to $22k per annum.
Just goes to show what happens when pilots get together, work with their union(s), ignore minor differences, and show some balls and determination.
It was a long process though. Not helped by the nay-sayers that bleated "we will all lose our jobs."
Cobham EBA 2012. No pilot lost their job. Everybody got more money. Everybody got better conditions.
Within the week of it being rubber stamped by Fair Work Australia, the company announced 5x more airframes, two new bases (CBR and SYD) and a recruitment drive for 50+ crew.
Cobham B717 FO and DEC job ad The Australian
I'm sure that there will be still some that grumble about the unions at Cobham (AFAP and TWU). But they'll be banking the pay increases while they grumble!!
Last edited by HulaBula; 17th May 2013 at 03:12.
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I am sorry for the slight thread drift, however Hulabula has made a few comments that I cannot allow to go without correction.
The pre 2007 pilot group committee were the ones who allowed the pilot conditions to free fall. Those who were around would remember NH, GV and RW + others signing up to "Future horizons". They would remember the introduction of paying for endorsements and bonding. and who can forget the famous question that was put to the pilots "who supports FH in its entirety?" Of course there was no satisfactory answer to that. Only an idiot could support it, and even if you said NO it was read as still supporting some of it, s reasobale. This was all pre collective agreement days as these guys couldn't achieve that goal even with some meek support from the AFAP.
Along comes 2007 and the new committee rid themselves of the AFAP and with support from the majority of the pilot body engaged the TWU. Yes it was the 2007 pilot group committee that engaged the TWU achieved a collective agreement, saw the end of paying for endorsements, having to battle the previous pilot groups acceptance of Future Horizons.
There were many more wins, thats for another day.
Selective memory is an understatement, whoever you are Hulabula you were either not around in 2007 or you were asleep at the wheel.
The pre 2007 pilot group committee were the ones who allowed the pilot conditions to free fall. Those who were around would remember NH, GV and RW + others signing up to "Future horizons". They would remember the introduction of paying for endorsements and bonding. and who can forget the famous question that was put to the pilots "who supports FH in its entirety?" Of course there was no satisfactory answer to that. Only an idiot could support it, and even if you said NO it was read as still supporting some of it, s reasobale. This was all pre collective agreement days as these guys couldn't achieve that goal even with some meek support from the AFAP.
Along comes 2007 and the new committee rid themselves of the AFAP and with support from the majority of the pilot body engaged the TWU. Yes it was the 2007 pilot group committee that engaged the TWU achieved a collective agreement, saw the end of paying for endorsements, having to battle the previous pilot groups acceptance of Future Horizons.
There were many more wins, thats for another day.
Selective memory is an understatement, whoever you are Hulabula you were either not around in 2007 or you were asleep at the wheel.
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-the 5 new 717's to get business class
-SYD/CBR, BNE/CBR, MEL/CBR later this year
-Cobham is in the process of recruiting additional crew to help meet requirements
-SYD/CBR, BNE/CBR, MEL/CBR later this year
-Cobham is in the process of recruiting additional crew to help meet requirements
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Well look what the cat dragged in again - five dogs, barking about unions just like a small dog behind a big fence. Barking at workplace reps in general, the AFAP and the TWU in particular, and naming anybody that stood up and did a better job than him as a (failed) rep.
Here's the bottom line. TWU and AFAP were united and Cobham pilots scored the trifecta. More money. More planes. More pilot jobs.
Funny how "RENURPP" and "fivedogs" work in tandem. Same opinions about unions, same grammar, same days off to post on prune - same IP address methinks!
Whatever. Rick Burton sends his love. Enjoy your backpay.
Here's the bottom line. TWU and AFAP were united and Cobham pilots scored the trifecta. More money. More planes. More pilot jobs.
Funny how "RENURPP" and "fivedogs" work in tandem. Same opinions about unions, same grammar, same days off to post on prune - same IP address methinks!
Whatever. Rick Burton sends his love. Enjoy your backpay.
Thankyou,
Wild accusations that can't be substantiated, I guess I know who it is now!
Nope. One's in NSW, and one interstate.
Last edited by RENURPP; 17th May 2013 at 06:57.