QF 642
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Was there anything odd about this A330 near Tullamarine a few weeks ago?
Qantas jet said to be too low on Melbourne approach | Plane Talking
Is it common for this ground warning system to go off on jets in Australia?
Qantas jet said to be too low on Melbourne approach | Plane Talking
The ATSB is investigation a ‘serious incident’ in which a Qantas A330 aborted its approach to Melbourne Airport on 8 March after its enhanced ground proximity warning system called Terrain-Pull up.
However it is important to note that it remains unclear whether this was a false alarm by the EGPW system or a pilot error. There are hills in the area, and the flight was making a visual approach toward a low, but not very low sun.
There is (as is usually the case) more information in the Aviation Herald report than the ATSB notification.
The Qantas flight immediately performed a go around when the ‘terrain-pull up’ warning was sounded, as required by its operating procedures. It was operating an afternoon peak Cityflyer service from Sydney and configured to carry over 300 passengers.
The Aviation Herald reports that “the controller told the crew they had been down to 2000 feet and cleared the aircraft to climb to 4000 feet.” This is of concern if correct. The altitude of Melbourne airport is 434 feet and the terrain is substantially higher in the direction of the approach , although it isn’t completely clear just how much real clearance there would have been for the jet immediately before, during or after the alert nor whether it was in a position of peril at that moment.
However it is important to note that it remains unclear whether this was a false alarm by the EGPW system or a pilot error. There are hills in the area, and the flight was making a visual approach toward a low, but not very low sun.
There is (as is usually the case) more information in the Aviation Herald report than the ATSB notification.
The Qantas flight immediately performed a go around when the ‘terrain-pull up’ warning was sounded, as required by its operating procedures. It was operating an afternoon peak Cityflyer service from Sydney and configured to carry over 300 passengers.
The Aviation Herald reports that “the controller told the crew they had been down to 2000 feet and cleared the aircraft to climb to 4000 feet.” This is of concern if correct. The altitude of Melbourne airport is 434 feet and the terrain is substantially higher in the direction of the approach , although it isn’t completely clear just how much real clearance there would have been for the jet immediately before, during or after the alert nor whether it was in a position of peril at that moment.
Mods will move this but for clarity I'm referring to the incident details posted from Crikey above.
Difficult to tell exactly from the Flight Tracker (Incident: Qantas A332 at Melbourne on Mar 8th 2013, EGPWS alert during visual final approach) but at the 07.50.15z point at 2200' altitude the aircraft appears to be about 9 Nm from the threshold in a straight line so probably 10 track miles or so at about 1800' HAT for RW16.
3 degree profile should be about 3200' HAT or about 3600' altitude at that point. Not sure what the terrain elevation is.
Difficult to tell exactly from the Flight Tracker (Incident: Qantas A332 at Melbourne on Mar 8th 2013, EGPWS alert during visual final approach) but at the 07.50.15z point at 2200' altitude the aircraft appears to be about 9 Nm from the threshold in a straight line so probably 10 track miles or so at about 1800' HAT for RW16.
3 degree profile should be about 3200' HAT or about 3600' altitude at that point. Not sure what the terrain elevation is.
Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 15th Mar 2013 at 05:39.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Throwing it out there
Day VMC... Adjust /ignore...maybe?
If Terrain pull up, closure rate, low alt ? But find it hard to thinkQF crew would be much below the DME steps or above 210/3000' AAL as both are sort of SOP For them I think?
Funny how this gets so much attention in the local media... Slow news day...
If Terrain pull up, closure rate, low alt ? But find it hard to thinkQF crew would be much below the DME steps or above 210/3000' AAL as both are sort of SOP For them I think?
Funny how this gets so much attention in the local media... Slow news day...
Nunc est bibendum
There is certainly a hill out there that if you descend to circuit height (2000' AMSL), and you don't have the gear down you're a chance of having the EGPWS go off. It depends on where you track from/to. Horus to ROC misses it. Horus to the FF probably goes straight over the top. (Working from memory here).
Yes, there are still some of us who fly a visual base by joining at 1500' AGL rather than plug in a 10 mile final.
Yes, there are still some of us who fly a visual base by joining at 1500' AGL rather than plug in a 10 mile final.
If that is the scenario it has caught more than one crew out before. The terrain out there is higher than the airport elevation by about 200'. If you leave the configuring until you are at 2000' altitude then you run the risk of the EGPWS going off. Joining at ROC you should be at 1700' and the ILS profile has you at 2000' at 5dme. If you are given track shortening from HORUS (often coupled with a high speed descent) then stick to the 3 degree profile. If you are cleared for a visual approach and you dive and drive to 2000' then expect the railway warning.
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according to Flightaware, QF455 descended to 1400' inside the 1500' step with a descent rate of 1440ft/min then commenced a rapid climb to 4000' with a climb rate of 2600ft/min.
Pretty sure Tiger were grounded for this sort of thing........
I bet the QF media department are working their arses off at the minute......
Pretty sure Tiger were grounded for this sort of thing........
I bet the QF media department are working their arses off at the minute......
Bit hard to push the clear button on the xpdr panel then insert 7700 with your foot with it located half way down the centre pedestal I would have thought? But who knows.
Just got a message from Flightradar saying it had code 7700 set.
Same place the media get their BS stories from!
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As a plane watcher, airline tragic and media watcher, it's apparent in this case that the media reads the ATSB notifications. So far I've seen no reports about the incident that caused this thread and the Melbourne incident has been reported by Ben Sandilands and Steve Creedy without any I thought we were all going to die interviews.
Was surprised by this. Had expected the Melbourne media to go ape**** with screaming headlines. Not a word.
Was surprised by this. Had expected the Melbourne media to go ape**** with screaming headlines. Not a word.
Nunc est bibendum
Formula 1 week in Melbourne and the start of the footy season just around the corner. Perhaps that's the reason for the lack of interest from the Melbourne media?!?!
