Not often you see a QF744 flying without a winglet
Thread Starter
Not often you see a QF744 flying without a winglet
Looks very strange, happened in JNB I believe.
VH-OJI missing a winglet QF5 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
VH-OJI missing a winglet QF5 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
It's my understanding that it's permissible to operate minus one winglet but not both. Can anyone offer a definitive explanation of this approved asymmetry? Most plausible I've been given is to do with nav lights.
Boeing probably never foresaw a scenario where you would need to remove both winglets, and therefore never did any test flying with both winglets off.
The nav lights are not on the winglets!
The nav lights are not on the winglets!
Capt Six Feet
Thanks for exposing the nav light theory as a furphy. So it's a simple matter of you can't do it because you don't know what the performance penalty is?
Rgds
Thanks for exposing the nav light theory as a furphy. So it's a simple matter of you can't do it because you don't know what the performance penalty is?
Rgds
I guess Boeing must have been paraphrasing Oscar Wilde:
To lose one winglet may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness, therefore we do not envisage a need to test-fly such a configuration.
There is also a 744 D for 'Domestic', only 19 ever built and I think only used by Japan Airlines and ANA. This version has no winglets. (The 300 used to be called the 747SR for 'Short Range'). Quite common in recent years to park next to one in NRT where they seemed to live.
The height of the winglet is the same height as a towed tail-strut. How do I know this? Arrived once at LAX, empty, in a brand new 400F.(total airframe time 50 hours). Driver towed tail-strut under the wing and secured it in place. 100 tons gets loaded, ready to go and the tail-strut is removed. Driver takes same route back, but now, with the aircraft loaded, the top of the strut takes off the winglet! Flew home on the CDL. That figure of 2.5% seems about right.
Why the short range 'D' version has no winglets I don't know, I guess it's the sector length. Unusual machine the SR Jumbo's, high density seating and no centre tank. Would have been a blast empty.
The height of the winglet is the same height as a towed tail-strut. How do I know this? Arrived once at LAX, empty, in a brand new 400F.(total airframe time 50 hours). Driver towed tail-strut under the wing and secured it in place. 100 tons gets loaded, ready to go and the tail-strut is removed. Driver takes same route back, but now, with the aircraft loaded, the top of the strut takes off the winglet! Flew home on the CDL. That figure of 2.5% seems about right.
Why the short range 'D' version has no winglets I don't know, I guess it's the sector length. Unusual machine the SR Jumbo's, high density seating and no centre tank. Would have been a blast empty.
Why the short range 'D' version has no winglets...
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Boeing.com 747 Fun Facts
Quote:
How much weight does an additional 6-foot (1.8-m) wingtip extension and winglet add to the 747-400 wing? None! A weight savings of approximately 5,000 pounds (2,270 kg) was achieved in the wing by using new aluminum alloys, which offset the weight increase of the wing tip extension and winglet
Not having a shot at you Gate, more the Boeing spin.
Quote:
How much weight does an additional 6-foot (1.8-m) wingtip extension and winglet add to the 747-400 wing? None! A weight savings of approximately 5,000 pounds (2,270 kg) was achieved in the wing by using new aluminum alloys, which offset the weight increase of the wing tip extension and winglet
Not having a shot at you Gate, more the Boeing spin.
Thats comparing a 744 with winglets to a 742/743 wing.
Thus, 744D will have a slightly lighter wing than a 744 with winglets
My understanding is the Japanese B744D's do not have the wing extensions as well as the winglets. The reason I was given was they have to operate from domestic bays that could only accommodate the B747 classic wingspan. The relatively low take-off weights and short range flights means that the reduced wing span does not cause significant penalty wrt fuel burn.
Is it just me or does it look like the winglet has almost been photoshopped out in that photo? You can quite clearly see the outline of where the winglet should be where there is a demarkation of the grey on the upper surface of the wing.
Just a coincidence I guess but I can't stop seeing it!
Just a coincidence I guess but I can't stop seeing it!
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My understanding is the Japanese B744D's do not have the wing extensions as well as the winglets. The reason I was given was they have to operate from domestic bays that could only accommodate the B747 classic wingspan. The relatively low take-off weights and short range flights means that the reduced wing span does not cause significant penalty wrt fuel burn.
The -400 has a wingspan of:
64.44m, Empty.
64.92m, at MTOW.
Is it just me or does it look like the winglet has almost been photoshopped out in that photo? You can quite clearly see the outline of where the winglet should be where there is a demarkation of the grey on the upper surface of the wing.
Just a coincidence I guess but I can't stop seeing it!
Just a coincidence I guess but I can't stop seeing it!
Close up of what your seeing:
http://chris.web.focuswerbung.de/wp-...%20747-400.jpg
Also, if you zoom into the picture you mentioned, the hole at the tip of the wing becomes evident where the winglet would normally be bolted onto.
Last edited by B-HKD; 26th Dec 2012 at 21:48.
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Very true. I did hear a story that engineers did fly to one of the "stored" aircraft to rob some parts.
Below a copy and paste from another source
Below a copy and paste from another source
Last edited by Engineer_aus; 27th Dec 2012 at 10:31.
There was a time, many years ago now, when one 744 had two winglets U/S: a delamination problem, if I recall.
The solution was to rob a winglet off the nearest 'whole' 744 and both 744s flew around with one winglet each for a week or two.
Strange but true.
The solution was to rob a winglet off the nearest 'whole' 744 and both 744s flew around with one winglet each for a week or two.
Strange but true.