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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 09:11
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Revisited

DB - Only one problem with that Algie. CASA has no idea how to keep you anonymous when you make a complaint.
No offence mate, but they can.

I have heard a rumour (no proof of course) of 1 (one) subpoenaed document, forecasting the Canely Vale crash twelve moths before the event is being actively suppressed. Rumour has it, the reporter was vilified and the ATSB have willingly and ably dismissed the same. Heigh Ho.

There is also the 'experts' report on the Airtex Metro prang into Botany Bay, which has been, we hear, 'swept away' by the CASA provided 'copy and paste' ATSB report. Apparently the 'experts' beg `too many' awkward questions which remain unanswered.

Is it a mess ?. Oh I believe so. I always hope it ain't; but, when documented evidence is there, in your face like.

Well I'll leave it up to you up to decide.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 19:25
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Kharon, are you saying that "Australias proud aviation safety record" is in reality just dumb luck so far?

I thought ATSB was competent, as is AsA and CASA.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 21:59
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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The "conspiracy" gets larger, encompassing every aviation related agency in Australia.
Kharon, are you saying that "Australias proud aviation safety record" is in reality just dumb luck so far?I thought ATSB was competent, as is AsA and CASA.
The point being made isn't one of conspiracy, it is a mere fact that ALL governments lie, deceive, spin, twist, distort, are corrupt and dishonest when they are in the wrong. You guys should study Erebus a bit more closely and have a look at the lengths a government will go to for the purpose of distancing itself from blame or accountability.
Why do you think Regulatory bodies are normally run by senior bureaucrats - they are well trained masters in spin, lie and deflection and positioned for the sole purpose of keeping politicians asses covered.
No conspiracy in that.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 22:07
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Blinded by the light??.

Sunfish - Kharon, are you saying that "Australia's proud aviation safety record" is in reality just dumb luck so far?.
No Sunny, I can't call that one; but I can and do read publicly available documents.
We have good weather, a shortage of serious vertical dirt, skilled engineers and a competent pilot body, the record should be the worlds best. From memory, 1 of the esteemed members here has quoted the 'real' safety stats on this forum several times and they seem to speak for themselves.

CASA don't cause accidents, a honest regulator has a bloody tough row to hoe, dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. In it's present iteration the systems fault's are chronic and all ours for allowing it to operate as it does.

ATSB don't cause accidents, see above.

In general, when you get weak investigatory management, led about by a bullying regulator, the truth takes on a chameleon like form and disappears. The Parliament is misled, Judges, AAT and Coroners bamboozled; blinded by the bright, shiny spinning lights of "the expert" regulators, and terrified of 'getting blood on their hands'.
Pay here Mr and Mrs Public for the myth of air safety and to support the rise and rise of regulatory policy rule.

Anyway – you are free, of voting age and certainly intelligent enough to form your own opinions. I did - Seven year itch

Seems I am not 'the policeman at Herne Bay'. (The hamlet of Bullockstone is about one mile to the west).

PS GD - PIC
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 23:45
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Kharon, are you saying that "Australias proud aviation safety record" is in reality just dumb luck so far? I thought ATSB was competent, as is AsA and CASA.
If Australia was so safe then why was it recomended that our safety standing be downgraded? Australia came within a hairs breadth of this?
And again you can liken Australia's safety to that of a major airline that hasn't had a crash - Does that mean it is completely safe, in good steed and at the peak of it's safety game? No it doesn't.

K, nice picture link. I thought about a pig for this post but it doesn't quite fit the theme, so the below is for Blackhand -

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Old 3rd Apr 2012, 04:49
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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No Sunny, I can't call that one; but I can and do read publicly available documents.
We have good weather, a shortage of serious vertical dirt, skilled engineers and a competent pilot body, the record should be the worlds best. From memory, 1 of the esteemed members here has quoted the 'real' safety stats on this forum several times and they seem to speak for themselves.
Folks,
It is sobering to take a really close look, using ICAO standard definitions of accidents and incidents, Australia (in standard terms, not self serving re-definitions of categories) has a distinctly ordinary record.

All the necessary documents are available, but if you are Australian, they are not visible if you are wearing your rose coloured glasses.

In all categories, the US produces far and away the best results, and given the sheer volume of aviation in the US, nobody in their right mind would argue that the statistics are not valid (but I have heard, actually listened in amazement as sometime CASA executives dispute the US record, nonetheless).

On the other hand, given that aviation in Australia is relatively small, compared to US, or even the EU area, a valid argument can be made that the fact that we have not a large jet hull loss is not statistically significant, ie; dumb luck.

We have certainly had enough bloody close goes, starting with the TAA B727 that bounced off the cover of the sewer line, well short of the RW 07 threshold at (then) ASSY.

As to CASA competence, the results of the two ICAO audits, public information, and the two most recent FAA audits (not public, but the general thrust of the results, and why, are well enough known) speak for themselves.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 3rd Apr 2012, 21:49
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For example

LS - As to CASA competence, the results of the two ICAO audits, public information, and the two most recent FAA audits (not public, but the general thrust of the results, and why, are well enough known) speak for themselves.
I could, perhaps, live with 'bad' audit or two; some element of 'non compliance' is inevitable form any subjective audit. Just because the rest of the 'modern' world seems to swan through – well 'nuff said.

One of the things annoys me is the smooth 'glossy, force fed twaddle we get in response to a safety issues. For example:- Report - R20050002. Issue date 14 March 2005.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...r20050002.aspx In short,
The ATSB (still punching at this stage) make a series of sensible suggestions.
The Coroner (Hennessy) supports them with half a dozen recommendations.
Enter the dragon -
CASA response.
Date Issued: 29 August 2005
CASA has reviewed its previous advice in relation to this matter [provided with the directly involved parties comments to draft occurrence report 200304282] and I am advised that the Authority has no additional comment to provide in response to recommendation R20050002. However, it should be noted that resources to review this action will be allocated in accordance with CASA's reviewed priorities. For your information, a copy of CASA's initial advice is recorded below. CASA advice
CASA will:
* Review the requirements for helicopter EMS operations to include consideration for two pilots, or a stability augmentation and/or autopilot system;
* Review the special operational and environmental circumstances of helicopter EMS services, particularly with regard to pilot qualifications, training and recency including instrument flight competency; and
* Review the pilot recency requirements for helicopter EMS operations to ensure that operator check and training processes are focused on the EMS environment.

CASA 10 October 2007.
The following updates the actions previously advised in response to the recommendation:
· The proposed review of EMS operation crewing and aircraft equipment requirements will take place as part of the re-instated project to finalise Civil Aviation Safety Regulation (CASR) Part 133. As you may be aware, the regulatory review aspects of CASR Part 133 have, under instruction from the CASA CEO [deleted], been on hold for some time. However I can now advise that this project is scheduled to recommence in October 2007, and that this subject matter will be incorporated in the consideration of CASR 1998 Part 133.T.3.
· CASA has been considering these issues (particularly the special operational and environmental circumstances associated with EMS operations) for some time now as part of the review processes for the introduction of Night Vision Goggles (NVG) into Australian helicopter night operations. As a result of this review we have incorporated helicopter EMS operations as a Permitted NVG Operation in the new NVG Civil Aviation Order (CAO) 82.

This CAO (which is now in effect) empowers appropriately equipped, trained and approved EMS AOC holders to use NVG on their night EMS primary and secondary response taskings. Both CASA and the industry consider this to be a major safety initiative and we will be monitoring its effect over the next twelve months by way of a formal research process.
· EMS pilot qualifications, training and recency requirements will be included in the CASR Part 133 project consultation and review processes, however I can also advise the (as part of its normal surveillance processes) CASA will continue to review these matters in current operations as well.

Additionally I can advise that pilot qualification, training and recency requirements were also reviewed by both CASA and the industry as part of the consultation processes associated with the previously mentioned NVG implementation project, and that the industry subject matter experts at these meetings included several representatives from AOC holders who conduct EMS operations in both VFR and IFR situations at diverse operational locations.


2012
. Were the holes plugged up?. Can this incident be repeated?. Is the legislation available for use??. Tick tock indeed.

Coroner Barnes in good faith accepted that the matter was under sensible control.

Was the Public, industry, Coroner, ATSB conned?.

Who let's them get away with it - we do.
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Old 8th Apr 2012, 04:17
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Train the trainer

Yes the last FAA audit and ICAO audit were particularly damning.
The FAA's concern was all the Qantas incidents such as the 'bang bang oxy tank on the 747' and the regularity of Rollers going pop. That audit may not have been released publicly but it was available internally at CASA. As a result a few copies were downloaded and distributed around the traps. It makes for interesting reading I hear!
ICAO's audit was critical especially of internal/external training. Of course CASA agreed to making many fixes and started a lighthearted fix. Once ICAO were satisfied and went away CASA threw the lot into the bin. Naughty naughty, all these pesky people highlighting this fact and creating questions in the senate and some discomfort for the Minister has resulted in 'training training training' being resurrected as a priority!!
In fact Fort Fumble has embraced training with such enthusiasm that the first
floor Brisbane office is being renovated into an entire training facility. All first floor staff have been relocate to level 1 and existing staffs workspaces cut down to allow for additional staff to squeeze in. I don't think the Inspector Gadgets will be happy and I am sure OHS will be contacted shortly?

Perhaps Flyingfiend, back from the land of white clouds, could advise us if the
reduced workspaces will cause stress which in turn could result in litigation?
Nonetheless, the coffee shop offices or 'offsite meeting offices' at the DFO and Coffee Club will be able to accommodate the extra patronage I am sure.
However Hawaiian shirts, raucous outbreaks of anger and cigars are off limits!!
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Old 8th Apr 2012, 07:32
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Close but no cigar

Indeed level 1 is being remodeled also to have the floor coverings changed to an Olympic size plastic"Twister" mat and the ceiling removed so that performance assessments and promotion exercises can be conducted with candidates in the nude, in a lather of Danish butter and viewed from the tiered seating on levels 2 and 3. Suitable survivors are then to be handpicked for an audience upstairs and possible subsequent promotion.

Those requesting training to equip them for their new responsibilities are immediately pineappled and thrown to the worm farm below to live out their days in bestial servitude to the worm masters, picking through the dross for fragments to add to the never-ending regulatory reform program, doomed to slowly suffocate in the funk of failure and stale cigar butts.......
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Old 8th Apr 2012, 12:27
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps the buildings basement is more of a Freddy Kruger boiler room where all the former CASA SS management hang out and haunt Herr Skull?
The likes of Vaughn, Carmody, Quinn, and a stack of Ministers, field office Fuhrers and a handful of CEO's could all linger down there?
Speaking of hauntings, where is the team lead FOI gone from Brisbane? The one that dresses like a cowboy and wears RM boots??
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Old 8th Apr 2012, 23:59
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The difference between the US and Australia is that CASA work mainly on compliance, and FAA mainly on safety. The two philosophies are worlds apart.

The fact is, that a lot of decisions are made at all levels of aviation (by engineers, CC, pilots, refuellers, managers etc.) where compliance and covering one's arse is the most motivating factor.

A few examples:

Refuellers around Australia are busy pumping fuel (holding the switch in their hand) while placing orange witch's hats all around the truck, rather than standing next to the truck and aircraft fuel panel monitoring and watching like they should be. The reason - CASA compliance (I don't want to get in trouble).

Cabin crew are so busy telling people in exit rows they can't have anything on the floor, they consciously ignore the 10-15kg hand luggage bags they are jamming in the overheads, which exceed the weight limit of the bins and shouldn't have been allowed onboard in the first place. The reason - CASA compliance (I don't want to get into trouble). They then proceed to serve booze to these people in charge of the exits.

Pilots are so busy being "random" drug tested, yet CASA medical still routinely certify chain cigarette smokers with class 1 medicals. But it is all wonderfully compliant.

Get an unscreened passenger in the terminal accidentally and they shut the whole f***ing airport down and kick everyone out for rescreening. Meanwhile, out at my aircraft there's a catering employee who got issued with a visitor ASIC yesterday, loading boxes onto the aircraft, who signed on at the other side of the airport and who hasn't been screened. The reason - DOTARS compliance.

Go through screening at certain ports, and flight crew get guaranteed explosive testing while passengers wander through. The security guards tell us this is because we are easier and faster to test, and they have a quota per hour they have to COMPLY with. Compliance = safety?

Send pilots to the sim with CASA observing and during the one engine raw data ILS you bust a speed by 1 knot, not sustained, bingo - have a few weeks off. Then when CASA leave, in the briefing room you get the old "oh don't worry mate, if CASA hadn't been here, you'd have been alright". The reason - CASA compliance, not safety.

Every day, all around Australia, people who have a direct influence on air safety are making decisions based on compliance, box ticking and arse covering - because that's how CASA have driven the industry.

To CASA:

COMPLIANCE does not necessarily = SAFETY. The more you take the big stick approach, the more likely people are to make decisions which sacrifice safety in order to cover themselves.
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Old 9th Apr 2012, 05:18
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Keeping yr ar$e intact....

The safety record for this country... for what its worth.
"Excellent and unique" according to CASA.
"Ordinary" by world stats by more objective reseachers.
Why do we have a "good" record...notwithstanding with some unfortunate blemishes recently.
IMHO its because 99.99999% of aviators try their very best to stay alive, and try not to do anything knowingly unsafe or plain dumb.
Therefore, those that do.. become a statistic and into the Safety Digest.

You could bury most of CASA and the regs underground and the result would be the same.
Above ground most engineers will carefully maintain things, and most pilots will 'professionally' fly things....not because of CASA, but to keep their respective ar$es intact. Its the survival thing.
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Old 18th Apr 2012, 13:26
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Musical chairs, troughs, cmteam bonding and general shennanigans

Well well the chairs become fewer and the music stops?

More changes to Fort Fumbles structure this week. The technical operations group has been disbanded and no longer reports into the safety oversight branch under the Skull. Those national resources of dangerous goods inspectors, cabin inspectors and other specialist inspectors shall be dispersed into the field offices. Also international operations reports now to none other than the voodoo witchdoctors department. But don't worry, left behind on level 3 are some consultants who from good reports are doing the usual which is swallowing tax payer money while they wear the business glasses and scurry around the corridors carrying a clip board, looking busy, palming off work to others while blurting out safety pearls of wisdom they have pinched from the real experts! Hell, more trips to Montreal must be on the cards?

One of the funniest reports to date with the new CMT process is how allegedly the field office managers have told Mr Skull that CMT is an amazing success story and has been passionately, even robustly embraced by the inspectorate, when in reality it is despised and the true facts have been hidden from the Chief Angry Man. A number of inspectors are rumoured to be assigned to oversight aircraft and airworthiness technical areas that they know nothing about, e.g GA inspectors oversighting 737/320 operations for starters!
And of course all are being made to reduce travel, do less surveillance and regulate via keyboard and no doubt YouTube. Gotta cut costs to fund the Training Center Of Excellence!! Somebody better wake the hawaiin shirt wearer and tell him that no matter what the CASA fantasy is they will never ever be able to run a training center, hold a highly regarded reputation for quality and world class standards like the Singaporeans do! Christ if you can't change the regulations within 23 years how in the name of pony pooh can you provide training to industry? I mean it was a nice thought and obviously a way to create an income stream which in turn could be used towards pumping up executive salaries and bonuses, fund more jollies and wank fests, bring in a few more former employees on consultant rated and pay for a few more PHD's? Yes indeed the trough needs topping up, what to do? What to do?

I also heard a rumor that they have estimated it will cost another $45 million to finish off the regulatory reform program! Now that is one giant, fat mega consuming trough. A trough so large in potential that I simply cannot fit a picture of enough pigs on this page!!!

Oink oink
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Old 18th Apr 2012, 19:51
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Robust point.

GD - One of the funniest reports to date with the new CMT process is how allegedly the field office managers have told Mr Skull that CMT is an amazing success story and has been passionately, even robustly embraced by the inspectorate, when in reality it is despised and the true facts have been hidden from the Chief Angry Man.
Sometimes, when a more benign, benevolent mood descends I wonder if 'he who must not be named' has any idea, at all about what happens in reality at the coal face. Perhaps if the rose coloured spectacles and cigar smoke 'fug' were removed, a clear picture of what really does happen would emerge. Perhaps 'he' don't smoke; the smoke is all part of the famous mirrors act, or being blown up his Khyber by the masters of the Snakes and Ladders game.

Maybe, that ol' black magic has him under it's spell. Either way – it's all bollocks.
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Old 19th Apr 2012, 08:10
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I heard from a bloke who heard from a bloke that the head of the new CASA training academy has pulled the pin this week also. Fleeing a sinking ship maybe?

DB
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Old 19th Apr 2012, 08:29
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No further comment.

Just the facts here:

History repeating again and again.

and here

CASA investigates

and here

Questions without notice

and here

Swiss cheese




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Old 19th Apr 2012, 09:19
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Hey K you forgot the tick..tock and the oink...oink!

Maybe we should be having odds on for who is going to prang first, or (God forbid) who'd be game to back a trifecta...or would a quinella be enough to stop the repeats at Albo's circus!
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 05:16
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Quick quick where is my chair, the music is about to stop

I heard a rumour that the boss of the newly touted, soon coming two-bit pony pooh training center of non-excellence has also quit?
Sore arm from polishing the turd? Off to ICAO for a secondment? Maybe jagged a gig as a bureacratic senior level public servant in Can'tberra?

Oh the shame of that place. The folly, the shennanigans, the foolishness, the pony pooh..........

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Old 20th Apr 2012, 05:38
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Na GD, the trouble was nobody could figure out what to teach.
Put six FOI's in a room and you'll get six different opinions.
Example: an operator from over the way arrived in OZ with an 8 page SOP for their aircraft. After operating around 5 different regions of OZ their SOP had grown to around 700 pages. I heard when PNG was presented with it they said WTF!!!...whats wrong with the flight Manual"????
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Old 21st Apr 2012, 13:58
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ICAO audit report

Link to the 2008-09 ICAO audit report.
http://www2.icao.int/en/ism/istars/p...CSA_AUS_En.pdf

Is the CASA training academy now up and running?
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