SYD ATC 2nd December
Thread Starter
SYD ATC 2nd December
Anyone know what was going on with ATC on Sunday afternoon?
No weather at the airport all day. Sunday afternoon reduced traffic to begin with.
Notam goes out for 45 min traffic holding. People holding for 60mins, diversions, Min Fuel calls, departures held, all goes pear shaped.
Heard no explanation as to why such a shambolic situation occurred given that people were doing visual approaches most of the day.
Given airlines are paying for a service that performance was nowhere near acceptable.
The guys at the coalface do the best with what they have, but I suspect that more resources need to be spent on manpower and not building Ivory Towers.
No weather at the airport all day. Sunday afternoon reduced traffic to begin with.
Notam goes out for 45 min traffic holding. People holding for 60mins, diversions, Min Fuel calls, departures held, all goes pear shaped.
Heard no explanation as to why such a shambolic situation occurred given that people were doing visual approaches most of the day.
Given airlines are paying for a service that performance was nowhere near acceptable.
The guys at the coalface do the best with what they have, but I suspect that more resources need to be spent on manpower and not building Ivory Towers.
Last edited by neville_nobody; 2nd Dec 2012 at 23:16.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given airlines are paying for a service that performance was nowhere near acceptable.
The guys at the coalface do the best with what they have, but I suspect that more resources need to be spent on manpower and not building Ivory Towers.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Age: 17
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard the chaos on the radio as we pushed back in Sydney. Couldn't understand the fuss. The weather was fine, windy but straight down 16. There was very little ground traffic, and we departed as soon as we called ready. Possibly the fastest departure from Sydney! Seemed awfully quiet on the ground!
Very odd.
Very odd.
Held for 45mins and landed on 16L and expected to see chaos on the ground. Actually it was pretty much dead in a sydney sense. Expected to also see a trail a mile long for both runways but no one else landed on 16L in the time we taxied back past B8. Listening to the company freq. we could still hear plenty of aircraft doing laps.
Not sure what the problem was. If it was a staff shortage, be good if it was advised so that we are all in the loop.
Not sure what the problem was. If it was a staff shortage, be good if it was advised so that we are all in the loop.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
ZK-ZQA Double QF44 Melbourne Diversion
From the Qantas Source:
Surely a 737 would be able to divert somewhere closer than Melbourne?
Canberra? Williamtown / Newcastle? Even Richmond comes to mind.
JetConnect Boeing 737-838 ZK-ZQA operating QF44 Auckland - Sydney diverted to Melbourne this evening due to long hold times at Sydney. The aircraft then set off for Sydney, missed curfew by seconds and returned to Melbourne.
Canberra? Williamtown / Newcastle? Even Richmond comes to mind.
Bottums Up
Surely a 737 would be able to divert somewhere closer than Melbourne?
Canberra? Williamtown / Newcastle? Even Richmond comes to mind.
Canberra? Williamtown / Newcastle? Even Richmond comes to mind.
If one lobs into Richmond or Willy are there steps? Where are the pax going to be put up? Are there staff there to meet 'n greet the pax and/or aeroplane. I suspect MEL was a much easier logistical answer.
It's normally a dogs dinner if you take an international flight into an aerodrome that isn't used to it. Does Jetconnect have engineers and ground staff at those other ports? Is it their company SOP to carry those ports as alternates? I doubt it but I could be mistaken.
If the delays were unforecast and as bad as how they are being reported then ASA needs a rocket. How can a safety critical outfit operate so close to the bone?
If the delays were unforecast and as bad as how they are being reported then ASA needs a rocket. How can a safety critical outfit operate so close to the bone?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep, somethins up for sure. Holding patterns and/or orbits followed by max speed descent/cancel speed below 10. It's been a shambles most of the week.
...and can someone explain why we no longer hear "behind the landing xxx, line up rwyXX"?
...and can someone explain why we no longer hear "behind the landing xxx, line up rwyXX"?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kyeemagh
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...and can someone explain why we no longer hear "behind the landing xxx, line up rwyXX"?
Our Ops said staff shortages.
Last edited by Ivasrus; 3rd Dec 2012 at 06:59. Reason: moving off thin ice
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Thanks Claret,
All good points. What I had in mind was more re the first diversion to Melbourne; my thinking being that if the aircraft had been closer, it could have recovered to Sydney more quickly and so made the curfew.
Unloading at any of the airfields I mentioned would've been difficult as it was an international flight and those fields don't have customs facilities. And it's also true that the JC drivers would've been more familiar with MEL than the others.
The broader point is of course the pedantic application of the curfew.
Thanks guys
All good points. What I had in mind was more re the first diversion to Melbourne; my thinking being that if the aircraft had been closer, it could have recovered to Sydney more quickly and so made the curfew.
Unloading at any of the airfields I mentioned would've been difficult as it was an international flight and those fields don't have customs facilities. And it's also true that the JC drivers would've been more familiar with MEL than the others.
The broader point is of course the pedantic application of the curfew.
Thanks guys
Last edited by Taildragger67; 3rd Dec 2012 at 07:39.
Did you consider Canberra??? ATC and RFF don't close till midnight and it would have saved 80 mins flying time too.
Maybe the lights in CBR Airport were on but no QF staff were home!! ( so to speak!!! )
Then again all they need are the refueler and some steps surely?? Lob in and out quick as a flash in a 737.....
Maybe the lights in CBR Airport were on but no QF staff were home!! ( so to speak!!! )
Then again all they need are the refueler and some steps surely?? Lob in and out quick as a flash in a 737.....
Last edited by nitpicker330; 3rd Dec 2012 at 10:08.
A thread on RVSM contingency procedures ( nice input there Nitpicker) has a link to a website called Webtracker, I'd never seen it before, it's great. I looked up the approach in question to see how accurate the " missed out by seconds " quote was. It was pretty accurate! They got down to 1089 feet before climbing out. The interesting thing to me is that they commenced the miss at 1059:01 .
If they did maybe 700fpm for the last part of the approach that means they missed out by only about 20 seconds. Seems a bit crazy to me in that the go around would have made a lot more noise than continuing to land.
If they did maybe 700fpm for the last part of the approach that means they missed out by only about 20 seconds. Seems a bit crazy to me in that the go around would have made a lot more noise than continuing to land.
Thread Starter
QF use Canberra as an alternate. Don't know why Jet Connect can't/didn't.
Why I couldn't understand about Sunday was why traffic could not be pushed through. People were holding in/around storms whilst the weather at the airport was fine.
Why I couldn't understand about Sunday was why traffic could not be pushed through. People were holding in/around storms whilst the weather at the airport was fine.
The link above to "Qantas Source " shows two QF 737's diverted to Canberra at about the same time that night. I imagine if the JC aircraft had the fuel then QF may have preferred them in Melbourne because of that. At the end of the day it doesn't matter why they went there really, what matters is the cost to Australia of ASA dropping the ball and not landing aircraft when the airfield was open.
Is anyone going to stand up and say " yeah that was crap, we'll do better next month" .
Is anyone going to stand up and say " yeah that was crap, we'll do better next month" .