Qantas Engineering redundances - Advice required!!!
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Just to repeat myself.
This is a cyclic event and will pass (with pain) like a kidney stone.
Re-hiring WILL begin in 2-3 years when they realize that they have "lost " too many in the redundancy program.
Cop it sweet for now and park yourselves in a money earning job. If you don't want to return or you have discovered that there IS life after Qantas, then that's your good fortune.
The only downside I see in the process is that these tossers will claim that there is not enough qualified people around, and 457 visa's will materialize quickly.
Good luck to all.
This is a cyclic event and will pass (with pain) like a kidney stone.
Re-hiring WILL begin in 2-3 years when they realize that they have "lost " too many in the redundancy program.
Cop it sweet for now and park yourselves in a money earning job. If you don't want to return or you have discovered that there IS life after Qantas, then that's your good fortune.
The only downside I see in the process is that these tossers will claim that there is not enough qualified people around, and 457 visa's will materialize quickly.
Good luck to all.
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AEROMEDIC
They won't be rehiring. Not the numbers they've lost. For every 747 that departs QANTAS for the last time, is a number of engineers they don't need anymore, as the aircraft are not being replaced. For every 767 that leaves QANTAS for the last time, is another lot of engineers they don't need anymore, as those aircraft are not being replaced.
This is a bit more than just another aviation cyclic event. This is not an up and down cycle of people flying or not flying. This is a downsizing of the airline by getting rid of aircraft and leaving an "excess" of engineers and other staff in their wake, justifying the powers that be to make people redundant.
Those that have decided to park themsleves in a money earning job have done so, but still await the farcical "negotiations" between the company and unions to come up with a decision as to what is happening and the numbers. The negotiations seem to be as long and miserable as the federal election campaign we have to put up with for the next six months. All talk and nothing to show for it.
Also AEROMEDIC, if this cycle is as cyclic as you say it is, why are we engineers being inundated with job opportunities outside of QANTAS by both the ALAEA and QANTAS?
It seems that the less being said by both sides, the worse the outcome is going to be for the ones who will cop it in the neck in the end.
Just to repeat myself.
This is a cyclic event and will pass (with pain) like a kidney stone.
Re-hiring WILL begin in 2-3 years when they realize that they have "lost " too many in the redundancy program.
This is a cyclic event and will pass (with pain) like a kidney stone.
Re-hiring WILL begin in 2-3 years when they realize that they have "lost " too many in the redundancy program.
This is a bit more than just another aviation cyclic event. This is not an up and down cycle of people flying or not flying. This is a downsizing of the airline by getting rid of aircraft and leaving an "excess" of engineers and other staff in their wake, justifying the powers that be to make people redundant.
Cop it sweet for now and park yourselves in a money earning job. If you don't want to return or you have discovered that there IS life after Qantas, then that's your good fortune.
The only downside I see in the process is that these tossers will claim that there is not enough qualified people around, and 457 visa's will materialize quickly.
Good luck to all.
The only downside I see in the process is that these tossers will claim that there is not enough qualified people around, and 457 visa's will materialize quickly.
Good luck to all.
Also AEROMEDIC, if this cycle is as cyclic as you say it is, why are we engineers being inundated with job opportunities outside of QANTAS by both the ALAEA and QANTAS?
It seems that the less being said by both sides, the worse the outcome is going to be for the ones who will cop it in the neck in the end.
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Interesting note in todays propoganda email from the dictator Nastysteyn.
He is banging on about the engagement survey but this bit got my attention.
“Provide adequate facilities to provide the world’s best maintenance”
The Engineering Facilities team are currently engaged in several large projects including:
§ Brisbane Heavy Maintenance - Hangar 2 Upgrade;
§ Perth Engineering and Ramp Facilities Upgrade;
§ Darwin Engineering Facilities Upgrade; and
§ Los Angeles Hangar Project.
§ There are several smaller projects across Sydney Jetbase and other ports to improve the facilities and work spaces for our employees.''
The Los Angeles hangar project. This is the first time I have seen or heard anything about it, apart from the rumours that have filtered back from guys who have visited the world of Chandra.
It would be nice for the slash and burn brigade to front the troops and tell us that this is going on. I know we have heard it as a rumour, but to hear them say that it is good for QE as a whole etc.
This bit is also great:
Over the past 12 months within Line Maintenance we’ve invested $2.3million in tooling, equipment and ground support equipment (GSE) with around $1.25 million in purchase orders pending. A further $1million has been spent in Base Maintenance.
Wow you have a fleet of over 150 aircraft and you invested $2.3 mil in tooling and GSE etc. Are we supposed to give him a high 5 or ridicule him because it is such a poor amount considering the amount invested in aircraft.
How about this Chris, invest in a new hangar complex in Sydney? This was to be part of SACLs revamp of the airport.
http://www.aspecthuntley.com.au/asxd...f/01249577.pdf
This spells it out.
He is banging on about the engagement survey but this bit got my attention.
“Provide adequate facilities to provide the world’s best maintenance”
The Engineering Facilities team are currently engaged in several large projects including:
§ Brisbane Heavy Maintenance - Hangar 2 Upgrade;
§ Perth Engineering and Ramp Facilities Upgrade;
§ Darwin Engineering Facilities Upgrade; and
§ Los Angeles Hangar Project.
§ There are several smaller projects across Sydney Jetbase and other ports to improve the facilities and work spaces for our employees.''
The Los Angeles hangar project. This is the first time I have seen or heard anything about it, apart from the rumours that have filtered back from guys who have visited the world of Chandra.
It would be nice for the slash and burn brigade to front the troops and tell us that this is going on. I know we have heard it as a rumour, but to hear them say that it is good for QE as a whole etc.
This bit is also great:
Over the past 12 months within Line Maintenance we’ve invested $2.3million in tooling, equipment and ground support equipment (GSE) with around $1.25 million in purchase orders pending. A further $1million has been spent in Base Maintenance.
Wow you have a fleet of over 150 aircraft and you invested $2.3 mil in tooling and GSE etc. Are we supposed to give him a high 5 or ridicule him because it is such a poor amount considering the amount invested in aircraft.
How about this Chris, invest in a new hangar complex in Sydney? This was to be part of SACLs revamp of the airport.
http://www.aspecthuntley.com.au/asxd...f/01249577.pdf
This spells it out.
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QF94,
It's fair to say that this event is different in some ways to those of the past, but there are similarities.
In the early 80's, profit margins were squeezed badly in a downturn,so Qantas shed a number of engineers, mostly those with 707 licences that could not be deployed elsewhere. Things improved and a couple of years later and those happy to, came back and gained 747 licences to boot.
This repeated itself in the early 90's, with a slightly longer time for re-hiring, and again 2001/2002.
Each time re-hiring occurred when margins improved and capacity cranked up to meet the demand.
Nothing I've seen so far would sway me from believing that this cycle will not change.
Re-hiring is NOT just around the corner, rather, it is at least a few YEARS away and perhaps a little longer, but WILL happen.
The nature of re-hiring is to meet requirements of the time, not numbers made redundant. Historically, there have been many that have left the industry altogether, lost the passion and would never return.
Apprentices graduate and fill the natural attrition as well.
These two statements are contradictory. I would hope the second is true.
To make things clearer, the difference this time is that this is a downturn of margins, therefore less PROFIT, even though demand and capacity remain high.
Previously it was a great reduction of demand and therefore overcapacity that had to be reduced resulting in less PROFIT.
It's fair to say that this event is different in some ways to those of the past, but there are similarities.
In the early 80's, profit margins were squeezed badly in a downturn,so Qantas shed a number of engineers, mostly those with 707 licences that could not be deployed elsewhere. Things improved and a couple of years later and those happy to, came back and gained 747 licences to boot.
This repeated itself in the early 90's, with a slightly longer time for re-hiring, and again 2001/2002.
Each time re-hiring occurred when margins improved and capacity cranked up to meet the demand.
Nothing I've seen so far would sway me from believing that this cycle will not change.
Re-hiring is NOT just around the corner, rather, it is at least a few YEARS away and perhaps a little longer, but WILL happen.
The nature of re-hiring is to meet requirements of the time, not numbers made redundant. Historically, there have been many that have left the industry altogether, lost the passion and would never return.
Apprentices graduate and fill the natural attrition as well.
Those that have decided to park themsleves in a money earning job have done so, but still await the farcical "negotiations" between the company and unions to come up with a decision as to what is happening and the numbers. The negotiations seem to be as long and miserable as the federal election campaign we have to put up with for the next six months. All talk and nothing to show for it.
Also AEROMEDIC, if this cycle is as cyclic as you say it is, why are we engineers being inundated with job opportunities outside of QANTAS by both the ALAEA and QANTAS?
Also AEROMEDIC, if this cycle is as cyclic as you say it is, why are we engineers being inundated with job opportunities outside of QANTAS by both the ALAEA and QANTAS?
To make things clearer, the difference this time is that this is a downturn of margins, therefore less PROFIT, even though demand and capacity remain high.
Previously it was a great reduction of demand and therefore overcapacity that had to be reduced resulting in less PROFIT.
Last edited by AEROMEDIC; 25th Mar 2013 at 00:00.
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another superlame,
You said "How about this Chris, invest in a new hangar complex in Sydney? This was to be part of SACLs revamp of the airport."
I have it on very good authority that a tender has been put out to build a 3 x A380 and 3 x 787 capacity hangar over in the space behind the fire station near 16L. The size of the project is enormous (400m x 200m).
I also learned that those ponds beside the road where you go under Southern Cross Drive towards the runway tunnels (behind the VW dealer and the school) are part of a sewage system and contain untreated turds. There is a natural flowing treatment system that takes crap from the city and eastern suburbs and naturally filters it through a series of ponds into Botany Bay.
Anyway, the client is QF and there is a sense of urgency about the project with expected completion of 2016.
The turd system, I'm going to net for mullet.
You said "How about this Chris, invest in a new hangar complex in Sydney? This was to be part of SACLs revamp of the airport."
I have it on very good authority that a tender has been put out to build a 3 x A380 and 3 x 787 capacity hangar over in the space behind the fire station near 16L. The size of the project is enormous (400m x 200m).
I also learned that those ponds beside the road where you go under Southern Cross Drive towards the runway tunnels (behind the VW dealer and the school) are part of a sewage system and contain untreated turds. There is a natural flowing treatment system that takes crap from the city and eastern suburbs and naturally filters it through a series of ponds into Botany Bay.
Anyway, the client is QF and there is a sense of urgency about the project with expected completion of 2016.
The turd system, I'm going to net for mullet.
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The Cone of Silence is locked down tight all the CR,s at Avalon barely even rated a peep even the local paper pretends they have not happened printing articles about all the jobs at Avalon 
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CR mentioned at toolbox meeting. 30 mechanical LAME's, 10 structures still to go.
Rumor has it structures to go next week. D check structure rework nearly complete. LAME's to follow. CR's complete by 15 April.
Rumor has it structures to go next week. D check structure rework nearly complete. LAME's to follow. CR's complete by 15 April.
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From G Harris
LINE MAINTENANCE UPDATE – SYD LAME CONSULTATION UPDATE
On 21st February 2013 the ALAEA formalised their proposal for a forced leave program amongst LAMEs within Sydney LMO, as a proposed means of obviating compulsory redundancies. We consider that a forced leave program would not obviate the redundancies – it would only delay them.
Notwithstanding the differences of opinion on mitigation, at our meeting with the ALAEA today we agreed to implement a forced leave program for LAMEs in Sydney Line Maintenance.
Detailed information about this program will be provided in the near future.
At this stage we anticipate the forced leave program will commence in mid-April, with a view to leave slots being allocated and taken from 1st July 2013. As a result, the expression of interest for voluntary redundancy will cease in mid-April. We would encourage those who have applied for redeployment to continue this course of action.
I hope it has now provided you with some level of certainty as we go forward. What we all need to do now is focus on being the best at what we do and that is continuing to provide our customers with safe, reliable and efficient aircraft.
Gavin
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So we are now going to have a forced leave program even though the company believes it won't mitigate the "need' for redundancies? Why agree to something like that then? Looks like they'll get us to burn leave and then say "Nope that didn't work.. sorry.. Redundancies are now back on the table".
Yes that'll give the boys a degree of certainty! On you Gavin!
Yes that'll give the boys a degree of certainty! On you Gavin!
Regardless if the company is correct or incorrect in their assessment of this only delaying the inevitable, they get to save face in the case they are wrong and they get to save face in the case they are right. They also get to burn leave in case they are wrong. In that context it's a win-win or a win-win for the company.
And at least now for the rest of this year there won't be anyone getting tapped in Sydney.
And at least now for the rest of this year there won't be anyone getting tapped in Sydney.
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Think practical guys. Nobody in Syd will be pushed out the door. If it delays it your payout will be higher due to wage rises. More importantly it gives us time to secure new work. Two on the horizon are 330 reconfig or Ek contract.
On the other hand the ALAEA and Qf disagree on future manning to cover the existing work. I am tipping that they will be gravely understaffed as you take more leave than normal. This will drive large amounts of overtime and for those who think it is appropriate to retain leave as some sort of retirement booster why not just work some extra hours and put the money in the bank.
55 Lames will no longer be down centrelink because of it.
On the other hand the ALAEA and Qf disagree on future manning to cover the existing work. I am tipping that they will be gravely understaffed as you take more leave than normal. This will drive large amounts of overtime and for those who think it is appropriate to retain leave as some sort of retirement booster why not just work some extra hours and put the money in the bank.
55 Lames will no longer be down centrelink because of it.