QF - EMIRATES the Real Reason
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QF - EMIRATES the Real Reason
What will Emirates get from the deal?
Why would they want to tie up with Qantas?
Pacific slots to the U.S. is my bet.
S.I.A. have been trying to get there for years with no success.
Why would they want to tie up with Qantas?
Pacific slots to the U.S. is my bet.
S.I.A. have been trying to get there for years with no success.
Last edited by Take five; 9th Nov 2012 at 20:26.
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No it wouldn't be the Pacific route. Qantas would be stupid to allow Emirates fly North East because then access would be allowed for Singapore. But then again it may work if key Government people were on our side.
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We already have fifth freedom from Japan to West Coast USA. I believe we already have fifth freedom from NZ. It does make sense that EK want the Pacific from east coast Oz.
However, I think the main reason (short term) is the London (Heathrow) slots. We have 5 flights a day to LHR and they're all about to become A380. We will also have a scheduled B77F cargo flight to start between Dubai and London in December. QF have a couple of slots they don't or will no longer use.
However, I think the main reason (short term) is the London (Heathrow) slots. We have 5 flights a day to LHR and they're all about to become A380. We will also have a scheduled B77F cargo flight to start between Dubai and London in December. QF have a couple of slots they don't or will no longer use.
Last edited by Bypass ratio; 9th Nov 2012 at 23:54.
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Um, what do EK get from the deal? How about direct access to 8 or 9 million frequent flyers in one of the world's better performing economies, with a strong currency exchange rate?!
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However, I think the main reason (short term) is the London (Heathrow) slots. We have 5 flights a day to LHR and they're all about to become A380. We will also have a scheduled B77F cargo flight to start between Dubai and London in December. QF have a couple of slots they don't or will no longer use.
From whats been mentioned before, the transit times for our pax to change to Ek flights to Europe will be on average 6 hours or more. So if our 380 flights are full with pax going to london then it defeats the point of hubbing through Dubai. Or, as is the likely scenario, if most or all our pax are in transit to change to Emirates flights for Europe destinations, then we have basically empty A380s going Dubai to Heathrow daily.
What I think will happen is our dubai-London services will be cancelled within 12 months of it starting and the Heathrow slots being transferred (leased) to Emirates for their A380 operations and their connecting pax.
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I doubt that will be the case. People aren't going to tolerate that sort of wait. It really shouldn't be more than 2 hours.
the QF1 & 9 will arrive Dubai between midnight and 2am to then depart for Heathrow about 3am for the 6am landing slot. From what I'm told most of the Emirates flights depart Dubai between 8-10am for Europe. So based on that I'd say thats any where between a 6-8 hour transit.
How do you come up with only 2 hours????
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SUB. I wonder, could you explain the Q (b)ankers penchant for describing a flight with the prefix THE.
To the best of my recollection, most other drivers would just say DJxxx or whatever.
THE, refers to the one and only. However QF 1, I am prety certain, runs daily. If you want to refer to just one, why not stipulate the date and that way we can be sure it's just one. If you want to stipulate a generic, THE is totally inappropriate.
Better still why not give up (b)anking (before you go blind) and talk like the rest of us mortals.
Cheers. SS
To the best of my recollection, most other drivers would just say DJxxx or whatever.
THE, refers to the one and only. However QF 1, I am prety certain, runs daily. If you want to refer to just one, why not stipulate the date and that way we can be sure it's just one. If you want to stipulate a generic, THE is totally inappropriate.
Better still why not give up (b)anking (before you go blind) and talk like the rest of us mortals.
Cheers. SS
Last edited by scam sniffer; 10th Nov 2012 at 11:25.
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From scam sniffer;
WTF????
Seriously? Thats all you took out of my post was the use of "the"????
Maybe the name Glue sniffer would be more appropriate!
SUB. I wonder, could you explain the Q (b)ankers penchant for describing a flight with the prefix THE.
To the best of my recollection, most other drivers would just say DJxxx or whatever.
THE, refers to the one and only. However QF 1, I am prety certain, runs daily. If you want to refer to just one, why not stipulate the date and that way we can be sure it's just one. If you want to stipulate a generic, THE is totally inappropriate.
Better still why not give up (b)anking (before you go blind) and talk like the rest of us mortals.
Cheers. SS
To the best of my recollection, most other drivers would just say DJxxx or whatever.
THE, refers to the one and only. However QF 1, I am prety certain, runs daily. If you want to refer to just one, why not stipulate the date and that way we can be sure it's just one. If you want to stipulate a generic, THE is totally inappropriate.
Better still why not give up (b)anking (before you go blind) and talk like the rest of us mortals.
Cheers. SS
Seriously? Thats all you took out of my post was the use of "the"????
Maybe the name Glue sniffer would be more appropriate!
Fellas Ek flies 5 times a day to LHR and I think its 4 a day to LGW. These flights are always full to fullish. I can't see why QF couldn't cart some EK pax outa DXB to LHR as well. Its a codeshare right?
Rumour has it that most EK Oz services will be upgraded to 380s if the deal goes ahead to trap more pax to Europe on QFs behalf. So EK wins more bums on seats outa OZ and access to another two slots into LHR operated by QF. QF 10 and EK 5 will almost be formatting on each other on the back to the sandpit.
So QF wins as EK helps it retire 40ish aircraft in the next few years, and EK wins as QF helps it increase capacity to Oz. Win win for Pax and management, maybe not such a great win for QF employees.
the Don
Rumour has it that most EK Oz services will be upgraded to 380s if the deal goes ahead to trap more pax to Europe on QFs behalf. So EK wins more bums on seats outa OZ and access to another two slots into LHR operated by QF. QF 10 and EK 5 will almost be formatting on each other on the back to the sandpit.
So QF wins as EK helps it retire 40ish aircraft in the next few years, and EK wins as QF helps it increase capacity to Oz. Win win for Pax and management, maybe not such a great win for QF employees.
the Don
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The real reason for the QF-EK tie up is simpler then the above, although most post have some good points.
What it comes down to (for Qantas managers) is KPI's and bonus's.
If Qantas doesnt have to fly a route because EK is doing it and QF is just purchasing seats on a service, then its highly likely that for a given route the specific CASK can be reduced.
The way that QF management bonus's are structured, this means that a significant percentage of these savings will end up in the pockets of those making the decision to pull QF off the route.
Therefore, for individual QF managers there is a powerful incentive to pull QF out of its remaining international flying ASAP.
In relation to the 4 LHR slots QF owns, a source tells me that as part of the deal these slots will be leased to EK for USD $1 per year.
Both current QF services to LHR will last less then twelve months after the tie up is completed.
What it comes down to (for Qantas managers) is KPI's and bonus's.
If Qantas doesnt have to fly a route because EK is doing it and QF is just purchasing seats on a service, then its highly likely that for a given route the specific CASK can be reduced.
The way that QF management bonus's are structured, this means that a significant percentage of these savings will end up in the pockets of those making the decision to pull QF off the route.
Therefore, for individual QF managers there is a powerful incentive to pull QF out of its remaining international flying ASAP.
In relation to the 4 LHR slots QF owns, a source tells me that as part of the deal these slots will be leased to EK for USD $1 per year.
Both current QF services to LHR will last less then twelve months after the tie up is completed.
Last edited by mohikan; 10th Nov 2012 at 19:49.
Scam Sniffer you don't need a long neck, the only (b)anker here is you. I can't remember hearing QF pilots prefacing a callsign with "the" unless they were taking the piss out of "the Speedbird."
The Framer says it doesn't matter where QF international flights actually go as long as they go and are fullish. If EK end up running into LHR and QF pick up secondary ports with 787's that EK don't operate to or are skinny on, then that's fine. EK pick up the feed of Australian domestic frequent Flyers and a couple of LHR slots (win). QF pick up EK frequent flyers when they arrive in Ausralia and when they want to go east out of Australia and NZ (win). As long as the two airlines choose ports that they don't compete heavily on then it will be win/win.
They will have to design their joint network carefully to achieve that but hopefully that is what they are doing right now.
They will have to design their joint network carefully to achieve that but hopefully that is what they are doing right now.
Scammer. How do you HEAR QF blokes whilst crossing to Pacific? They use CPLDC almost exclusively and only make voice calls on HF, once at 140west.
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So on company, talking to pilots in the same company, the guys call themselves "the 11" or the "the 8"? Thats your definition of a ****** is it?
It is a shorthand way to communicate a lot of information.
It communicates the departure point and the destination, the planned ETA and aircraft type all without having to say it. You might work for an airline that has only one flight a day over the Pacific or anywhere else but the QF guys (at the moment anyway) don't.
I think I know who the ****** is here.
It is a shorthand way to communicate a lot of information.
It communicates the departure point and the destination, the planned ETA and aircraft type all without having to say it. You might work for an airline that has only one flight a day over the Pacific or anywhere else but the QF guys (at the moment anyway) don't.
I think I know who the ****** is here.
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I really don't know how QF and EK are going to plan their routes together, but how it looks like from Northern Summer 2013 doesn't look promising.
1. The EK flights from BNE, PER and ADL don't connect well to the QF flights to LHR at DXB. (Well maybe the third daily EK flight from PER would). The transit time to most European destinations would be 4-8 hours, except for FRA and LHR which QF flies to now anyway!
2. The retimed Singapore flights - seriously the MEL one arrives past 7pm and the SYD morning flight arrives in SIN at 4pm. Which Jetstar Asia flights would they connect to seamlessly in both directions? Phuket and Ho Chi Minh City. Both of which are served by Jetstar Australia in their own right from Sydney anyway. (By the way, that's only for the QF SYDSIN 940am flight. BNE, ADL and MEL won't connect to Jetstar Asia comfortably in both directions, except for Phuket
So QF has effectively diluted their single hub into two hubs, both of which really don't get connections comfortably in both directions.
If the current QF Europe flights ex SIN get feed from 7 Australian cities, and the new flights ex DXB will get feed from just 2 (and PER maybe with the new EK flight) where's the rest of the feed coming from?!
1. The EK flights from BNE, PER and ADL don't connect well to the QF flights to LHR at DXB. (Well maybe the third daily EK flight from PER would). The transit time to most European destinations would be 4-8 hours, except for FRA and LHR which QF flies to now anyway!
2. The retimed Singapore flights - seriously the MEL one arrives past 7pm and the SYD morning flight arrives in SIN at 4pm. Which Jetstar Asia flights would they connect to seamlessly in both directions? Phuket and Ho Chi Minh City. Both of which are served by Jetstar Australia in their own right from Sydney anyway. (By the way, that's only for the QF SYDSIN 940am flight. BNE, ADL and MEL won't connect to Jetstar Asia comfortably in both directions, except for Phuket
So QF has effectively diluted their single hub into two hubs, both of which really don't get connections comfortably in both directions.
If the current QF Europe flights ex SIN get feed from 7 Australian cities, and the new flights ex DXB will get feed from just 2 (and PER maybe with the new EK flight) where's the rest of the feed coming from?!
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IMHO the reason for the QF/EK tie up is pretty simple -good business practices (mostly from EK). I don’t think there are any conspiracy theories out there that are correct.
EK can fly you to many ports in Australia from almost anywhere.. but they can’t fly you say PER-BNE, MEL-SYD etc. By ‘getting it on’ with QF, they can sell packages on one EK ticket to get you to Oz, fly you all around the place on a codeshare with QF and get then you back home. Add to that, seamless booking, lounge access and did someone mention over 8 million frequent flyers who can use their points on EK with the deal? Qantas also gains,from the revenue from all domestic onward connections within Oz (as its been stated that its not a revenue sharing partnership). Also, about the Tasman, if you think QF is going to sacrifice the frequency and flexibility in terms of pax advantage of 5 737s a day SYD-AKL by gifting the pax over to one EK A380... umm wrong!
Similarly, EK have just announced a tie-up with EasyJet. Why? Because from all around the globe you can get to many destinations in Europe on EK – but you can’t get say fly FCO-LHR-FRA for multiple business meetings with EK alone. They have tied with one of the largest inter-Europe airlines that operates to both business and leisure destinations. Chuck in the frequent flyer programs etc and bingo – trip sold as a package with EK (no more pesky travel agents to book a multiple destination trip).
http://logisticsweek.com/logistics-2...rline-partner/
Also they have flagged a tie-up with Jetstar Asia... EK can get you on holidays from Europe to BKK/SIN etc, but if you want to tour Asia on your holidays just with EK they can’t do it.. When EK ties up with Jetstar .. travelling with a seamless package/ frequent flyer points etc, touring Asia makes an attractive buy with EK.
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EK are being smart, they are strategically tying in all the ‘intra’ destinations within certain regions, connections they couldn’t possibly make themselves, even as big as they are. And within those regions they are tying up business and leisure travellers alike.
Good plan from EK’s point of view, and I’m sure that QF will benefit from the domestic on-carriage from what will soon be the world’s largest international airline..not too sure where it will leave QF International though
EK can fly you to many ports in Australia from almost anywhere.. but they can’t fly you say PER-BNE, MEL-SYD etc. By ‘getting it on’ with QF, they can sell packages on one EK ticket to get you to Oz, fly you all around the place on a codeshare with QF and get then you back home. Add to that, seamless booking, lounge access and did someone mention over 8 million frequent flyers who can use their points on EK with the deal? Qantas also gains,from the revenue from all domestic onward connections within Oz (as its been stated that its not a revenue sharing partnership). Also, about the Tasman, if you think QF is going to sacrifice the frequency and flexibility in terms of pax advantage of 5 737s a day SYD-AKL by gifting the pax over to one EK A380... umm wrong!
Similarly, EK have just announced a tie-up with EasyJet. Why? Because from all around the globe you can get to many destinations in Europe on EK – but you can’t get say fly FCO-LHR-FRA for multiple business meetings with EK alone. They have tied with one of the largest inter-Europe airlines that operates to both business and leisure destinations. Chuck in the frequent flyer programs etc and bingo – trip sold as a package with EK (no more pesky travel agents to book a multiple destination trip).
http://logisticsweek.com/logistics-2...rline-partner/
Also they have flagged a tie-up with Jetstar Asia... EK can get you on holidays from Europe to BKK/SIN etc, but if you want to tour Asia on your holidays just with EK they can’t do it.. When EK ties up with Jetstar .. travelling with a seamless package/ frequent flyer points etc, touring Asia makes an attractive buy with EK.
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EK are being smart, they are strategically tying in all the ‘intra’ destinations within certain regions, connections they couldn’t possibly make themselves, even as big as they are. And within those regions they are tying up business and leisure travellers alike.
Good plan from EK’s point of view, and I’m sure that QF will benefit from the domestic on-carriage from what will soon be the world’s largest international airline..not too sure where it will leave QF International though