Air Nelson Dash Noeswheel Report
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Damned if you do damned if you don't
It should be noted that, in determining the safest course of action, troubleshooting, i.e. taking steps beyond published non-normal checklist steps, may cause further loss of system function or system failure. Troubleshooting should only be considered when completion of the published non-normal checklist results in an unacceptable situation.
HF3000
I think that is pretty clear.
Their QRH clearly told them they did not have a problem.
Their QRH clearly told them they did not have a problem.
Further troubleshooting in this situation would have been clearly outside the guidelines of the manufacturer and the operator.
Cheers AeroCat
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Yes they did have a problem. And it turned out to be a design flaw, not a flaw in the actions of the pilots.
What are you suggesting? In future suspect that the documentation is always wrong? Suppose I have an increase in vibration on one engine and I go to the QRH and it tells me that it's ok to continue unless other engine indications are abnormal. I know better than the manufacturer so I elect to shut the engine down anyway and then I have to land at the nearest available airport. When an engineer is ferried out there and the passengers have spent the night sleeping on the floor of the terminal it turns out to be a gauge malfunction and I am looking for another job.
What are you suggesting? In future suspect that the documentation is always wrong? Suppose I have an increase in vibration on one engine and I go to the QRH and it tells me that it's ok to continue unless other engine indications are abnormal. I know better than the manufacturer so I elect to shut the engine down anyway and then I have to land at the nearest available airport. When an engineer is ferried out there and the passengers have spent the night sleeping on the floor of the terminal it turns out to be a gauge malfunction and I am looking for another job.
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What are you suggesting? In future suspect that the documentation is always wrong?
I'd much rather that than what you are suggesting, which is to always trust the documentation, no matter what.
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Quote HF 3000
.....I know better than the manufacturer so I elect to shut the engine down anyway and then I have to land at the nearest available airport. When an engineer is ferried out there and the passengers have spent the night sleeping on the floor of the terminal it turns out to be a gauge malfunction and I am looking for another job
Well HF 3000 ...Welcome to the world of being a Captain,if your not up to making those types of decisions then you shouldnt be in the seat.....nothing personal,
Hindsight...20/20...monday morning halfbacking....very easy to do in this situation....Most operating manuals have a disclaimer that "all" situations cannot be accounted for and that the "PIC" HAS THE FINAL AUTHORITY to the operation of that A/C...................preaching to the choir???
Could this crew have done more??? I believe so...the outcome might not have been different,,,,,,Ive flown the Dash series...100/200/Dash 7.....never had a lot of issues with this A/C except for the D7........and just about always flew around on 3 ENGINES,because of "gauge malfunctions"........which I might add,...according to the engineer,on the ground...."COULD NOT BE DUPLICATED"..........
I hate the idea of "hanging" pilots....some deserve it.......I have crashed 3 A/C(all in alaska)...207/402/twin otter..........all FAA/NTSB investigated,and all situations I was exonerated,due to their particular circumstances........so I feel I,m in a position to comment.......the C-402 was a landing gear issue,similar to the DH-8........MY POINT?????..... from every one of these situations ...after the fact .....and in consultation with the feds,NTSB and more experienced pilots.........I COULD HAVE DONE MORE.........That is something I learned and valued....and it still holds true today........
I do know what its like to bang one up,be dragged through the mud by the company and Authorities.......and have to be held accountable......and reading this report,indicates to me that the crew had time to investigate this issue further.......but that decision ultimately lies with the PIC.......if the crew "did the right thing" as some have alluded...they will now surely learn from this outcome
......do not confine yr thinking and flying of an A/C to just that of the Ops manual/QRH/Company culture........their are always other avenues
.....I know better than the manufacturer so I elect to shut the engine down anyway and then I have to land at the nearest available airport. When an engineer is ferried out there and the passengers have spent the night sleeping on the floor of the terminal it turns out to be a gauge malfunction and I am looking for another job
Well HF 3000 ...Welcome to the world of being a Captain,if your not up to making those types of decisions then you shouldnt be in the seat.....nothing personal,
Hindsight...20/20...monday morning halfbacking....very easy to do in this situation....Most operating manuals have a disclaimer that "all" situations cannot be accounted for and that the "PIC" HAS THE FINAL AUTHORITY to the operation of that A/C...................preaching to the choir???
Could this crew have done more??? I believe so...the outcome might not have been different,,,,,,Ive flown the Dash series...100/200/Dash 7.....never had a lot of issues with this A/C except for the D7........and just about always flew around on 3 ENGINES,because of "gauge malfunctions"........which I might add,...according to the engineer,on the ground...."COULD NOT BE DUPLICATED"..........
I hate the idea of "hanging" pilots....some deserve it.......I have crashed 3 A/C(all in alaska)...207/402/twin otter..........all FAA/NTSB investigated,and all situations I was exonerated,due to their particular circumstances........so I feel I,m in a position to comment.......the C-402 was a landing gear issue,similar to the DH-8........MY POINT?????..... from every one of these situations ...after the fact .....and in consultation with the feds,NTSB and more experienced pilots.........I COULD HAVE DONE MORE.........That is something I learned and valued....and it still holds true today........
I do know what its like to bang one up,be dragged through the mud by the company and Authorities.......and have to be held accountable......and reading this report,indicates to me that the crew had time to investigate this issue further.......but that decision ultimately lies with the PIC.......if the crew "did the right thing" as some have alluded...they will now surely learn from this outcome
......do not confine yr thinking and flying of an A/C to just that of the Ops manual/QRH/Company culture........their are always other avenues
Last edited by pakeha-boy; 9th Nov 2012 at 14:35.
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From Wiki
LOL PB, copied this in then saw you had already used it.... thought some here may still benefit from a discription.
Monday morning quarterback American football: A person who criticizes or passes judgement with benefit of hindsight. Monday morning refers to the games played or broadcast on weekends, with criticisms leveled by a spectator the following week.
Monday morning quarterback American football: A person who criticizes or passes judgement with benefit of hindsight. Monday morning refers to the games played or broadcast on weekends, with criticisms leveled by a spectator the following week.
Last edited by slamer.; 9th Nov 2012 at 17:42.
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Ah yes but the problem these days is that you now have Sunday Night Football, Monday Night Football and Thursday Night Football, so you could also have Tuesday Morning Quarterbacking and Friday Morning Quarterbacking... 
