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3 x major Virgin annoucements today

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3 x major Virgin annoucements today

Old 30th Oct 2012, 00:49
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Back to the Two Airline Policy. I'll bet AJ has turned purple with rage!
The fool has been caught asleep at the wheel yet again. While he struggles to turn a profit, is obsessed with rogering Engineers, allows his business customers to walk out the door, spends umpteen time in Canberra lobbying the labor incompetents and keeps his nose buried in his bonus calculator VA continue to smack him across the back ahead!!
Oh how I wish I had a crystal ball, would love to see the state of the game in say 5 years?


Game on indeed.

Last edited by gobbledock; 30th Oct 2012 at 00:50.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 00:52
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Jay Bee, You've done it agaaaaaaaaain........
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 00:53
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Skywest up 57.15% at present

Virgin up 9.1% at present

Qantas line ball at present and looking weak with more shares for sale than there are to buy.

Keg. I would be more concerned about your position in the QF group than making suggestions about the actions pilots in other airlines should be making.

Ps. I would expect Virgin to now join the Star Alliance.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 00:56
  #24 (permalink)  
Keg

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Lightbulb

waren. Sense of entitlement? Not really. Let me flesh it out a bit more.

There are a bunch of pilots in Tiger today. They deserve first shot at any Tiger promotions as Tiger expands. There are a bunch of pilots not in Tiger today who may be employed as F/Os as Tiger expands over the short to medium term. Let's say that a Tiger pilot employed next month has the opportunity with such rapid expansion to be considered for a command upgrade in two years time. Does not a Virgin pilot who has been employed with DJ 3-4 years ago not deserve the opportunity to at be considered for that promotional spot with Tiger next year prior to the person who is yet to be employed by Tiger?

B772, I remain concerned for my position in the QF group. I simply hope that DJ crew learn from our experiences. You know, share the knowledge? It's a CRM principle. I'm sure you've heard of it.

Last edited by Keg; 30th Oct 2012 at 00:57.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 01:07
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Does not a Virgin pilot who has been employed with DJ 3-4 years ago not deserve the opportunity to at be considered for that promotional spot with Tiger next year prior to the person who is yet to be employed by Tiger?
Yes, so long as the terms under which any such consideration might be given are negotiated and acceptable to both pilots groups prior to that situation occurring.

Still, a lot of water to go under the bridge before anyone gets to that point. Agree though, AIPA/VIPA should be making a list of questions for mgmnt smart like.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 01:13
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Keg.

The QF crew did not learn from the experiences of others and I suspect the now Virgin Group crew will ignore any suggestions made by QF crew.

With the move to 139 aircraft with just over 9,000 employees the Virgin Group will be a thorn in the side for the QF group.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 01:13
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin will only own 60% of Tiger so in reality there are no integration issues.

On the other hand they will own 100% of Skywest so that's where the seniority issues will lie. As a Skywedt employee I can assure you that there'll be 200 odd pilots who will want to sort these issues out ASAP as well. I would encourage the Virgin unions to contact the SALPA Committee.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 01:15
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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To the VBA, Virgin, VOz, Velocity and Skywest guys (or whatever you are called),

Use this EBA wisely! You have a lifeline, as some have alluded to elsewhere, the company tried to rush your EBA at the last minute for a reason. This could be your one and only chance to sort out a group seniority that works for all who are now under the Virgin Group. Once you get new hires, their sense of entitlement to quick commands will cause grief and issues. Bind together as a group with the ability to move about the group in a fair and sensible manner.

Remember, your hard work has put your company in the position to aquire these airlines or to be a valuable target

Take my word on this, as a QF group F/O with 15 years, I see no command for myself in the next 5 years. If our union and the JPC of the day had set it up in a different way I would have a command. As a result, all my hard work for the company saw the QF group divert funds from the Mainline operation into setting up numerous franchises of a LCC. The lack of investment in the product that I work for sees me with very little future.

Finally, well done to Virgin You guys are giving our arrogant management a shalacking.

Last edited by angryrat; 30th Oct 2012 at 01:17.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 01:51
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Yes well done JB.

Meanwhile I met two very influential business owners this morning who told me they have taken all their corporate business away from Qantas as Joyce has ignored their protests at the lack of premium QF services worldwide. All they recieved in response to emails was an automated fob off.

Winning.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 01:52
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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It will be very interesting to see which way Virgin goes: integrate the workforce or keep them as penny packets.

The Qantas group seems to have taken the approach of divide as much as possible. From what I can tell, from a pilot employment perspective, there are mainline, Jetstar, Jetstar NZ, Jetstar Asia, Jetstar Japan, Jetstar Pacific, Eastern, Sunstate, Network, and Cobham all operating flights on behalf of the Qantas Group (might have missed a couple of Jetstars, its hard to keep track). There is some ability to move between companies but it is limited and not consistant.

It is my understanding that this is a deliberate strategy to ensure that the workforce is not able to exercise as much power as it would if it were all combined.

Virgin started off with a number of companies: Virgin Blue, Pacific Blue, Polynesian Blue and V Australia but for some time has been working on bringing them back under one company due to the belief that the the overhead of running so many businesses exceeded the benefits. The Skywest set up was a shift away from this but it may be temporary as the ATR operations are already Virgin branded and the Skywest west coast ops will all move under the Virgin brand. Tiger will apparently stay as a separate brand for the forseeable future.

Whilst there are always winners and loosers in the short term when seniority lists get banged together I can't help but think that in the long term there will be more winners in a combined pilot workforce. And more importantly it doesn't have to be at the expense of the company so Virgin can remain profitable whilst doing so.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 01:59
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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What I find surprising is that there have been no whispers about any of this in the last few days. So much for a rumour network.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 02:04
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Well done JB - stirring the pot with a little leprechaun shaped pole right now...

I'm wondering where would this put the new terminal in Perth which has been allocated to skywest and other FIFO operators? F100's to use bridges now in the new pier? Or will they still stay in the existing Terminal WA?

Fun times ahead.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 02:05
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Angryrat --"This could be your one and only chance to sort out a group seniority that works for all who are now under the Virgin Group. "

So true, but you have a domestic group that just wants to put everyone at the bottom of ""their "" list. Go figure
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 02:07
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Look at the other side of this deal, a final admission of defeat that SQ just couldn't make a go of it in Australia on their own and needs locals to do it for them ?
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 02:26
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Why do people think there is going to be a merging of the crews from the different companies? The guys at Network got a Qantas employee number, but as far as I'm aware they aren't on the seniority list.

Better staff travel could be a maybe for XR or Tiger but I can't see it going much further than that.

If they all merged on start date there would be at least 10 guys from XR that would have the highest seniority in the group.... That'd be a nice jump F100 captain to A330 Captain. Can't see that happening for some reason.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 02:31
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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G'day Intake,

Intergration is the way to go. You start off at the bottom of 'their' list whilst they start off at the bottom of 'your' list. It is set out that noone can be disadvantaged in 'their base'. I don't know a lot about the Virgin setup, but here goes an example or two:

All NZ base(PacBlu?) keep the seniority in that base, all the others join the bottom of that list on DOJ( or aquirement) or whoever negotiates first to have a reciprocal list. Ie a F/O in NZ gets first go at a command in NZ. Once all F/O's in NZ have had their go in NZ or passed up the opportunity then the next on the newly designed list gets a crack.

All new hires start at the bottom of all the lists based on DOJ.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 02:41
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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So does this mean that SQ will do all the Virgin long haul and EK does all the Qf long haul? Good for the pax but not too good for oz aviation careers.

The Don.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 03:02
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Angry Rat,

I agree with your idea and think it is the way to go on integration. However, Cruise FO's of which Intake may or may not be, hate the idea. That is because when they joined as cruise FO's they had no possibilty of progression unless they had significant hours to meet minimums for a 777 FO (most of whom did not). For the majority their only chance of progression was/is to resign and start again at VAA. So to use this 'Silo' approach leaves them with little as they do not qualify for their 'protected' 777 FO slots.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 03:20
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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So they joined as crfo's without much experience (perhaps without the requirements for domestic), knew there was no progression, and are now not happy that they would have a chance to progress in domestic. Poor fellas
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 03:21
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Mr snuffaluffagus,
No not a CRFO, but " hate the idea" of it not being a even playing field. As for
"protected FO slots" and you could put "protected command slots" on that list are only protected for one group, domestic crew. It's all one way- short haul to long haul but not vice versa (except for CRFO's). Integration is integration, not segregation.
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