VA Short/Medium haul EBA voted down
Fleet Pay?
What about fleet pay?
What happened with that?
"Il Douche" was supposedly all for it, just because he is a top bloke......
What happened with that?
"Il Douche" was supposedly all for it, just because he is a top bloke......
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Gobble, it wasn't about the salaries.
You sure about that? VIPA Executive Director Simon O’Hara says differently, from the murdoch press:
"What we're saying essentially is that Virgin Australia's bank statement is back in the black in good part because of the effort of the loyal workforce and that loyal workforce needs to be paid accordingly," Mr O'Hara said.
He said the union was unhappy with the remuneration offered and the way in which the EBA negotiations had concluded with the addition of last-minute amendments.
He would not quantify the difference between the union and company on pay, but said the pilots were not necessarily looking for parity with Qantas.
"If the main competition in the market domestically is Qantas, then it's time that the pilots who are driving the reforms and bringing forward greater competition get a share of those profits and get paid accordingly."
Current Base Pay
EMB $152,710
B737 $190,889
A330 $199,369
Proposed Base Pay
EMB July 2012 $164,927, July 2015 $185,504
B737 July 2012 $198,525, July 2015 $217,986
A330 July 2012 $217,312, July 2015 $256,146
FO’s on 65%/60%/55%
I never bet my left one, but I’ll put money on the above wages not getting any better overall. Some may go up, but it will be at the expense of someone else.
Why does it have to be a case of either having the upper hand?
Surely the employees are there to make a buck as is the company. Wouldn't it be better if there was a mutually acceptable position where each group got some of what they wanted?
Surely the employees are there to make a buck as is the company. Wouldn't it be better if there was a mutually acceptable position where each group got some of what they wanted?
Nunc est bibendum
Then the 'pilot group' hasn't thought the issue all the way through. More rightly, no one has taken the time to explain the issue to them.
Fleet pay is a way of keeping your internal cost pressures down (recuces cross training costs) and reduces most of ithe major inequity between fleets. You should be avoiding at all costs things that promote disunity within the pilot group and nothing will do that more than something that will distort pay, whether or not to take promotion, etc. You only have to see the self serving behaviour of people in other airlines who believe that S/Os being paid more than wide body F/Os is a fair and just outcome to see where this road can take you.
Fleet pay is a way of keeping your internal cost pressures down (recuces cross training costs) and reduces most of ithe major inequity between fleets. You should be avoiding at all costs things that promote disunity within the pilot group and nothing will do that more than something that will distort pay, whether or not to take promotion, etc. You only have to see the self serving behaviour of people in other airlines who believe that S/Os being paid more than wide body F/Os is a fair and just outcome to see where this road can take you.
Last edited by Keg; 22nd Sep 2012 at 22:04.
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The Pilot group don't want fleet pay and the CEO doesn't want fleet pay. The CEO has even made public statements about pilots being payed based on the size of the aircraft they fly.
Fleet pay was discussed, discussed, discussed then shot down, cremated, buried and exorcised. It's gone. Please let's not go there again lest that poltergeist gets back out.
Fleet pay was discussed, discussed, discussed then shot down, cremated, buried and exorcised. It's gone. Please let's not go there again lest that poltergeist gets back out.
For all the reasons keg mentioned, tiered fleet pay that recognises length of service is without doubt the best system in my view. Trouble is, either a pilot somewhere will have to take a pay cut, or the Company will have to pay extra to get it in.
Neither of those things are going to happen, so Fleet Pay is, and will remain, a pipe dream.
Neither of those things are going to happen, so Fleet Pay is, and will remain, a pipe dream.
The Pilot group don't want fleet pay
So what happens now? Back to the drawing board? I find it interesting that AFAP endorsed it, yet the result was pretty negative
If not, is the vote outcome in line with the split of pilots between AFAP and VIPA?
Trying to work out if everyone voted along 'party lines' or on their own.
Lets not forget the Union is there to represent the members.
A certain Union endorsed the EBA doc without canvassing the members opinion. Yet another EBA where the long established Union endorses a Doc the majority thinks is less than optimal.
Why endorse something that the majority of union members thinks shouldn't see the light of day???
A certain Union endorsed the EBA doc without canvassing the members opinion. Yet another EBA where the long established Union endorses a Doc the majority thinks is less than optimal.
Why endorse something that the majority of union members thinks shouldn't see the light of day???
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Well my take is we pay our union fees so that they do that all that hard work for us. They can pick it apart and view the good from the bad, come to a decision and let us know. Why would they need to ask every member and say what do you think?? Thats what we're paying them for!!
I pay my union fees and they also want me to do their job (ie disseminate an EBA without a legal background and give it a thumbs up or down before they can state their professional opinion)...Great.
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Voting with your feet is one other option. I did and haven't looked back. I am very content where I am now working, and even more happy that I no longer have to endure the brown drivel that leaks from HR's mouths. HR in any airline are no more useful than an infected hemorrhoid, and some more than others to be certain.
Too many people blame the Unions for the ****e deals that are struck. That is merely misdirected blame and an easy scapegoat. A lack of unity among pilots and greasy pole sliding HR footstools are the biggest problem. Try this for size - ALL pilots stick together, vote 100% united, THEN when the proposal is rejected by HR and the Execs you all put in a 100% united vote of no confidence in specific Execs and their HR minions. Watch them fall!! The Yanks are a great example with their steel, maritime and selected industrial unions. A united blue collar workforce with giant balls wins the fight.
Too many people blame the Unions for the ****e deals that are struck. That is merely misdirected blame and an easy scapegoat. A lack of unity among pilots and greasy pole sliding HR footstools are the biggest problem. Try this for size - ALL pilots stick together, vote 100% united, THEN when the proposal is rejected by HR and the Execs you all put in a 100% united vote of no confidence in specific Execs and their HR minions. Watch them fall!! The Yanks are a great example with their steel, maritime and selected industrial unions. A united blue collar workforce with giant balls wins the fight.
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Missed this bit
VAIPA. Now I understand. After seeing first hand how things get out of control with AIPA trying to represent Jetstar pilots, hardly suprising to see this getting out of control at VA. I’ve got good mates doing this 
Locking in $256,146 for A330 skippers and $166,495 for A330 FO’s would have been smart.
Oh well, lets see VAIPA pull a rabbit out of the hat.
The pilot negotiations are muddied at Virgin because of the rivalry between the AFAP and VIPA, a group associated with the Qantas-based Australian and International Pilots Association.
Locking in $256,146 for A330 skippers and $166,495 for A330 FO’s would have been smart. Oh well, lets see VAIPA pull a rabbit out of the hat.
