Rex Importing Yank Pilots
Has the bigger picture occurred to you guys yet- that there may in fact not be enough suitable candidates?
Maybe they need to up the training budget. Maybe they need to do thorough ground schools. Maybe they need to do recurrent ground schools. Maybe they need to do 4 sims a year of which two are non jeopardy training only.
The reality is that Western airlines have been spoiled for choice post WWII. They have now destroyed the golden goose and apparently it is everyone else's fault. You cannot expect people to spend 100K+ on flying training then to work for REX on 40K
China Southern and Singapore manage to run airlines with candidates that have ZERO aviation experience and they are not crashing aeroplanes everyday.
Maybe just maybe it's time airlines start rethinking about pilot recruitment and training.
Last edited by neville_nobody; 18th Sep 2012 at 04:33.
Grandpa Aerotart
No HF3000 I didn't mean that.
I too asked that question and the answer was along the lines of 'it doesn't appear $ are the main issue, there is just virtually no one left out there'.
Now I tend to agree with you that $, in the end, ARE the issue...supply and demand being what it is...but that doesn't mean extra $ offered to attract potential FOs.
Neville, agree...well mostly
Like this - do that...maybe but there are real issues with hiring older less experienced pilots and training them onto jets. Airlines tend to take the view that if you are not jet experienced by a certain age you're probably not worth the aggravation. Again that's not airline management pilots being elitist its their real world experience.
I too asked that question and the answer was along the lines of 'it doesn't appear $ are the main issue, there is just virtually no one left out there'.
Now I tend to agree with you that $, in the end, ARE the issue...supply and demand being what it is...but that doesn't mean extra $ offered to attract potential FOs.
Neville, agree...well mostly
Like this - do that...maybe but there are real issues with hiring older less experienced pilots and training them onto jets. Airlines tend to take the view that if you are not jet experienced by a certain age you're probably not worth the aggravation. Again that's not airline management pilots being elitist its their real world experience.
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Thank Christ,
Maybe some of these new aviators will show you guys what high personal standard means.
It doesn't mean quoting the AIP verbatim, nor knowing hundreds of "nice to know" numbers. They might teach your checkers about life beyond Bankstown and Moorabbin.
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Maybe some of these new aviators will show you guys what high personal standard means.
It doesn't mean quoting the AIP verbatim, nor knowing hundreds of "nice to know" numbers. They might teach your checkers about life beyond Bankstown and Moorabbin.
Bbbbbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbbzbzbzzzzzzzzzzz
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Chimbu Chuckles, From what i've been told by a few people who have left Rex one of the major issues is an incredibly toxic culture they have going on there that means that the guys with enough intelligence and motivation to be Captains see the writing on the wall and bug out.
Perhaps you're right on an Industry level, i'm certainly not experienced enough nor enough in the know to say otherwise, but specifically towards Rex, there might be a problem with them and the way they are running things that is behind their lack of suitable applicants and their current predicament?
Perhaps you're right on an Industry level, i'm certainly not experienced enough nor enough in the know to say otherwise, but specifically towards Rex, there might be a problem with them and the way they are running things that is behind their lack of suitable applicants and their current predicament?
Nunc est bibendum
If Rex state that they require people with a Saab 340 endorsement and 2000 command on type they're not going to get many local applicants are they- particularly at the money on offer. Hence it's probably not too hard to demonstrate a lack of suitably qualified local applicants. 
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The pool of suitable candidates may be drying up but it is not disappeared. I personally know a pilot offered a captain position who did not take it on financial grounds and I know more than a few who are in the market who have not applied because of the pay and conditions.
This raises the sticky issue that the Government will not confront, when is the lack of suitable applicants within a companies responsibility to fix? By hiring offshore when there are suitable candidates available to work , but for more than a company wants to offer, then those overseas recruits are being used to drive down conditions.
Perhaps it is time for the Goverment to step in and fix the market failure or step back and let market forces work and make companies pay the going rate for services.
This raises the sticky issue that the Government will not confront, when is the lack of suitable applicants within a companies responsibility to fix? By hiring offshore when there are suitable candidates available to work , but for more than a company wants to offer, then those overseas recruits are being used to drive down conditions.
Perhaps it is time for the Goverment to step in and fix the market failure or step back and let market forces work and make companies pay the going rate for services.
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China Southern and Singapore manage to run airlines with candidates that have ZERO aviation experience and they are not crashing aeroplanes everyday.
In all seriousness, The US is going down the tube, some pilots are even on food stamps.. "Sunshine, Aussie women, beaches, more relaxed lifestyle, for 40k+?? I'll take it!! "
Even us yanks realize there isn't a 15th and 20th month in the year.
Last edited by Cost Index; 18th Sep 2012 at 22:41. Reason: spelling
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All good points raised by people here. However this point echoed what I was attempting to emphasise
Correct, on both grounds.
Companies don't go down the 457 visa route JUST to fck people over...it's expensive and aggravating.
When train drivers can earn more than triple what a Rex Captain does it says a lot about the company and the downwards trend in pay and conditions in Aviation in general.
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from the outside looking in, i know of 3 Ex Rex guys who were due for command, but left due to the toxic culture, "im sick of being treated like ****e"
also, in my own experience, at the end of a phone interview, "you sound great, but with over 1000 hrs command, you have to much experience for us" i still laugh about it to this day, though after reading through the terms and conditions after applying for a second time, there is no way im taking a 60% pay cut, and declined the offer...
sad thing is, i have no aspirations to get into the big shiney automatic jet. and regional flying is what i love best, and now aeros..
im sure my situation is Not unique....
also, in my own experience, at the end of a phone interview, "you sound great, but with over 1000 hrs command, you have to much experience for us" i still laugh about it to this day, though after reading through the terms and conditions after applying for a second time, there is no way im taking a 60% pay cut, and declined the offer...
sad thing is, i have no aspirations to get into the big shiney automatic jet. and regional flying is what i love best, and now aeros..
im sure my situation is Not unique....
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Who let them in
A previous poster commented before that senior captains and trainers have the belief that if you have 2000 hours and aren't in a good company by now then your not worth it. What a load of rubbish! This is based on the fact that most half decent companies list 1500 hours as the minimum with 500 multi command. What happens in the 500 hours between 1500 and 2000? Do you all of a sudden become unattractive and useless?
It makes me laugh that REX complain they have no upgradable FO's as they are all below standard. Hang on, YOU RECRUITED THEM! What were you all doing during the interview when so called non upgradable candidates were being questioned on their ability to handle emergencies etc? It also makes me wonder how well they did on the sim ride. They did all pass a sim ride these so called useless FO's didn't they? What happened since then? Have they all attracted a case of cant fly the plane itis?
What this is really about is Rex not being able to retain anyone half decent due to the very poor package on offer coupled with the so called toxic culture. If the so called shortage of experience were true then why does Network and Qlink and Skytrans etc have no problem finding and retaining upgradable FO's?
It makes me laugh that REX complain they have no upgradable FO's as they are all below standard. Hang on, YOU RECRUITED THEM! What were you all doing during the interview when so called non upgradable candidates were being questioned on their ability to handle emergencies etc? It also makes me wonder how well they did on the sim ride. They did all pass a sim ride these so called useless FO's didn't they? What happened since then? Have they all attracted a case of cant fly the plane itis?
What this is really about is Rex not being able to retain anyone half decent due to the very poor package on offer coupled with the so called toxic culture. If the so called shortage of experience were true then why does Network and Qlink and Skytrans etc have no problem finding and retaining upgradable FO's?
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Once again, all good points. So who is representing the majority of the pilots there these days and what do they have to say about it? People can bitch and moan on bulletin boards until they're blue in the face, but nothing will change until some weight is put behind the complaints.
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The bottom line is its not really about pay & conditions although they do equate somewhat.
Being a SF340 Pilot isn't a bad gig, but the skills are not very portable. Most guys take the pay cut and head on t the majors expecting to be treated poorly, but knowing that the skills are portable.
You can just about go anywhere and fly a Boeing or an Airbus and earn pretty decent money. The wider world is screaming for guys with 50 tonne + modern glass airliner experience.
If you're prepared to live in a ****hole, there is some pretty decent money out there.
To me being experienced on the Airbus is about as financially secure as you can get in this industry.
It's a tad harder with light turboprop experience.
Being a SF340 Pilot isn't a bad gig, but the skills are not very portable. Most guys take the pay cut and head on t the majors expecting to be treated poorly, but knowing that the skills are portable.
You can just about go anywhere and fly a Boeing or an Airbus and earn pretty decent money. The wider world is screaming for guys with 50 tonne + modern glass airliner experience.
If you're prepared to live in a ****hole, there is some pretty decent money out there.
To me being experienced on the Airbus is about as financially secure as you can get in this industry.
It's a tad harder with light turboprop experience.
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I heard a recent interesting ad for a group called "Hire-A-Hubby" who provide handyman/DIY style assistance. Interestingly they offer "$100K income guarantee on selected franchise packages." Now obviously the key word is "selected" but even still, it seems that whilst having a trade is desirable, it's not a requirement of employment/opening a franchise - in fact the radio ad says all you have to be is "good at fixing things or good with your hands."
It's no wonder that airlines paying $40k base salary are struggling to retain pilots or even recruit pilots in the first place when options like these exist and whilst "big shiny jet syndrome" may have been the factor a few years ago, Rex has seen at least half a dozen captains (some senior) move over to the Virgin/Skywest operation. The DJ/XR operation has been debated to death in other threads, however it's clear that the pilots who make that step aren't chasing shiny jets, they're the ones that you would be likely to keep under the right circumstances, the ones that want to fly regional operations and be home every second night, but are looking for something better to serve out a career with.
As many have alluded to, it would appear the atmosphere and culture is the biggest problem facing them at the moment. Two senior Captains have recently resigned (and there are plenty older than them who are still around, so clearly retirement wasn't necessarily the overriding factor there!!)
As Krusty34 said, despite the money being spent to entice American pilots over here, it's not going to fix the problem as pilots (direct entry and cadets) continue to walk out the door - perhaps the reason the EBA got voted in. People aren't concerned with what happens with pay as they have plans to vacate their position at the earliest possible opportunity with high numbers on hold files for Virgin, Jetstar, Skywest and Cathay!
It's no wonder that airlines paying $40k base salary are struggling to retain pilots or even recruit pilots in the first place when options like these exist and whilst "big shiny jet syndrome" may have been the factor a few years ago, Rex has seen at least half a dozen captains (some senior) move over to the Virgin/Skywest operation. The DJ/XR operation has been debated to death in other threads, however it's clear that the pilots who make that step aren't chasing shiny jets, they're the ones that you would be likely to keep under the right circumstances, the ones that want to fly regional operations and be home every second night, but are looking for something better to serve out a career with.
As many have alluded to, it would appear the atmosphere and culture is the biggest problem facing them at the moment. Two senior Captains have recently resigned (and there are plenty older than them who are still around, so clearly retirement wasn't necessarily the overriding factor there!!)
As Krusty34 said, despite the money being spent to entice American pilots over here, it's not going to fix the problem as pilots (direct entry and cadets) continue to walk out the door - perhaps the reason the EBA got voted in. People aren't concerned with what happens with pay as they have plans to vacate their position at the earliest possible opportunity with high numbers on hold files for Virgin, Jetstar, Skywest and Cathay!
