5th September QF Announcement
I prefer to read the flight reviews which give an actual indication of dis/satisfaction.
In fact a lot of the airlines that rated above QF on the 2012 best airlines list have lower average customer review scores than QF. Have a look for yourselves, these reviews make interesting reading:
Airline Passenger Reviews and Opinions - SKYTRAX
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetstar International will never be a disaster, as long as drivers are prepared to fly the same destination as QF drivers, using the same metal, at half the cost. And thereby lies your problem QF blokes, JQ blokes can do your job just as well at a huge saving to the company. They are in a far safer situation then you, as was always the plan since the day Dixon announced the birth of the joey. Bleating about it is not going to help, and the unions have now been rendered useless, you don't mix it with the sandpit. The Kangaroo days are over and its now the camel route. And I feel sorry for each and every one of you who wanted to do nothing more than fly for QF as a career. If you want to stay in OZ I would be putting my hand up at JQ or Virgin as of yesterday.
Squawk 7600,
I think you and I agree loosely on what needs to be done, ie new routes to non EK destinations with no reduction in international departures.
The only difference I can see in our positions is that you firmly believe that the management of the company is too inept or corrupt to do it, and I think that they most likely will. Maybe that is because you have been following QF more closely than I have.
OK, so they increase frequency to Sth Africa and Nth America or Sth America to make up for those three you mentioned....why not? Or they start flying direct to a few Asian destinations that are not well served at the moment. Anywhere that EK doesn´t go direct to out of Ausi really.
They don´t have to go to domestic, things change, the company is trying a new route so to speak. Maybe they will paint up some of those A320´s they have on order and run them domestically and shift the 330 over to International....why not?
I don´t think that is true. How much does it cost to park an A380 on the tarmac at Sydney? Everyone says that but nobody seems to know how much it actually costs.
Anyway, in 12 months if they have cocked it up as badly as most here think they will I will eat the hat
I think you and I agree loosely on what needs to be done, ie new routes to non EK destinations with no reduction in international departures.
The only difference I can see in our positions is that you firmly believe that the management of the company is too inept or corrupt to do it, and I think that they most likely will. Maybe that is because you have been following QF more closely than I have.
Framer start eating that hat. Just off the top of my head I can think of a number of routes QF has pulled out of in the past few years, or has announced it will soon pull out of, namely Mumbai, Frankfurt and Beijing (yes believe it or not!).
Yes the A330s are still, as far as I'm aware, coming back from J* to QF. However they will be used domestically
EK runs the A380 across the Tasman and gives away the fares in the process as it's cheaper than pay to leave it parked in SYD and cop it up the date by those who have perfected the art of doing so, MAp
Anyway, in 12 months if they have cocked it up as badly as most here think they will I will eat the hat
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 48
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
Jetstar drivers flying the same metal at half the cost? Cite an example of that, it's well known that A330 jetstar crew are earning more than mainline QF at the moment (albeit they are flying about 20% more hours) but it is nowhere near half the amount. But apart from that I agree the QF mainline pilot contract is a sitting duck and will in all probability not exist in several years. Any new aircraft will be offered with a new contract and a take it or leave it for the long haulers. If the 787,s go to mainline in all probability based in SIN on a stick hours contract very similar to jetstar or short haul.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Teresa.
Understanding that your son is a kook-aid drinking JQ fool doesn't excuse you for posting rubbish on this BBS.
I have multiple contacts in JQ, and I know exactly what they earn, and it is no where near "50% less".
Understanding that your son is a kook-aid drinking JQ fool doesn't excuse you for posting rubbish on this BBS.
I have multiple contacts in JQ, and I know exactly what they earn, and it is no where near "50% less".
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Teresa, never let the facts get in the way of a good story!
The following shorthaul EBA's: These are the facts - do you actually know them or are you just repeating the disinformation that you have been told.
Once you have worked through those, and after considering payment for working on a designated duty free day (section 25.5 J* - of which they get 11.5 per 28 day equivalent vs 9 for QF and no extra payment), you may wish to revise your number to a difference of about 5% - John Borghetti's own words -We pay enough says Virgin Australia CEO | News.com.au.
There is much more to this than the headline hourly rate. Stop propagating factually incorrect propaganda.
The following shorthaul EBA's: These are the facts - do you actually know them or are you just repeating the disinformation that you have been told.
Once you have worked through those, and after considering payment for working on a designated duty free day (section 25.5 J* - of which they get 11.5 per 28 day equivalent vs 9 for QF and no extra payment), you may wish to revise your number to a difference of about 5% - John Borghetti's own words -We pay enough says Virgin Australia CEO | News.com.au.
Originally Posted by John Borghetti
Mr Borghetti says there was a 5 per cent difference between the salary of a Boeing 737 pilot flying a Virgin Australia aircraft and an identical pilot flying the same aircraft for Qantas.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Not only 787s in 2016, Joyce says he wants to deploy them from DXB to new points in Europe. I am expecting he means to other cities not yet served by EK but the reality is there wont be much left not served by EK metal by 2016.
Teresa,
Go back to the cheap beers at the bowling club mate. "50% less" is the biggest load of horse manure I've ever heard. Jetstar is not the answer, it never has been and the quick commands will be a thing of the past.
They'll have to drag me out of my seat at QF, I'll stick it out as long as I can, I worked hard to get here and am still proud of the company (excl. management) I work for, which is more than a lot of JQ pilots can say.
Anyway, back to the topic!
Go back to the cheap beers at the bowling club mate. "50% less" is the biggest load of horse manure I've ever heard. Jetstar is not the answer, it never has been and the quick commands will be a thing of the past.
They'll have to drag me out of my seat at QF, I'll stick it out as long as I can, I worked hard to get here and am still proud of the company (excl. management) I work for, which is more than a lot of JQ pilots can say.
Anyway, back to the topic!
Last edited by Transition Layer; 10th Sep 2012 at 06:03.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear, hit a nerve have we. You know damn well the JQ drivers don't get your wage, and you know damn well that is your problem. My son is no kool aid fool either, he chose JQ over QF and who is laughing now. My other two fly for QF and like many others, wish they didn't. No skin off my nose I did my time with QF on top money for doing bugger all (S/O). Your the one with the problem not me, the world has changed like it or not, and the future for say a 35 year old driver with QF is not the same as it used to be, money or security wise, and sadly for you all that is the way it is now. Regardless of who is paying what, its up to YOU to get top dollar for your services and skills, and at QF you will be pushing it uphill. Going with Emirates almost renders your union useless, now you have Joyce and Emirates pulling the purse strings, and as I said messing with the sand pit is not always a pleasant option. If yelling at and abusing me helps, feel free but it won't change your situation. Look after nbr 1, and as one of you wrote I am proud to work for QF, well don't be, they have not given a ratz about you since the late nineties, not a ratz, they are not nor will ever be again the company they were. Oh and thanks for the gen y comments.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Suitcase
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firstly, Framer, yes I think we both agree almost entirely on what needs to be done. But what WILL be done is a completely different animal. I just enunciated the state of play as best I understand it based on my experience, what I may or may not know, and statements made by senior management of Qantas. However I could be entirely wrong, and besides things may change (and most likely will).
I must correct you however in that I have never said the QF management is corrupt. That may mean, just for example, talking down the share price such that an outside bidder could buy the corporation for less than NTA, break it up, and pocket the difference. Possibly rewarding the senior management employees in the process if they "made it easier". I want to make it quite clear that I have never suggested such a thing would go on.
Chuckle
Sorry, now where was I. Oh yes. Having said all I have about QF, no I don't think they're dead quite yet. Sounds like a scene from "Life of Brian", "... I'm not dead yet". If, and it's a big IF, the strategy continues the way it has been and the way Joyce has announced it will continue, then yes Qantas International is dead. BUT, deep down I still hold hope that common sense will prevail and they will see that the 787s will need to go to International and be used as a premium product. Given that this lot are fixated on lowering costs and not increasing value, IF that was to happen I wouldn't put it past them basing them off-shore and operating them in reverse down to Australia. But that is getting too far ahead to try to even have a wild stab at. All this will rely on a complete about face in strategy as announced, but that was yesterday, so anything is possible
Secondly, the little outburst by the member Teresa Green, together with one from another member (admittedly in his case through a misunderstanding) has made me realise that this board is not for me. Sorry chaps, but I'll leave you to it. Teresa's extraordinary outburst, apart from being totally devoid of any element of fact, just led me to realise that there's far too much negativity here to be healthy, and life's too short. I have everything to lose, and really nothing much to gain by posting my thoughts, so it's best to step back for a while. Edit: I see while I was writing TG has posted again, along much of the same toxic vein. TG I don't know who has crapped in your porridge, and care even less. What I will say is that this comment summed it up, "Look after nbr 1..." That pretty much summarises the J* IR culture, and I feel you may be regretting the smugness much sooner that you may realise. Again, I'll just leave it at that.
Good luck to the QF drivers, let's hope it all works out and no hats are harmed in the making of these stories!
Squawking 7600
I must correct you however in that I have never said the QF management is corrupt. That may mean, just for example, talking down the share price such that an outside bidder could buy the corporation for less than NTA, break it up, and pocket the difference. Possibly rewarding the senior management employees in the process if they "made it easier". I want to make it quite clear that I have never suggested such a thing would go on.
Chuckle
Sorry, now where was I. Oh yes. Having said all I have about QF, no I don't think they're dead quite yet. Sounds like a scene from "Life of Brian", "... I'm not dead yet". If, and it's a big IF, the strategy continues the way it has been and the way Joyce has announced it will continue, then yes Qantas International is dead. BUT, deep down I still hold hope that common sense will prevail and they will see that the 787s will need to go to International and be used as a premium product. Given that this lot are fixated on lowering costs and not increasing value, IF that was to happen I wouldn't put it past them basing them off-shore and operating them in reverse down to Australia. But that is getting too far ahead to try to even have a wild stab at. All this will rely on a complete about face in strategy as announced, but that was yesterday, so anything is possible
Secondly, the little outburst by the member Teresa Green, together with one from another member (admittedly in his case through a misunderstanding) has made me realise that this board is not for me. Sorry chaps, but I'll leave you to it. Teresa's extraordinary outburst, apart from being totally devoid of any element of fact, just led me to realise that there's far too much negativity here to be healthy, and life's too short. I have everything to lose, and really nothing much to gain by posting my thoughts, so it's best to step back for a while. Edit: I see while I was writing TG has posted again, along much of the same toxic vein. TG I don't know who has crapped in your porridge, and care even less. What I will say is that this comment summed it up, "Look after nbr 1..." That pretty much summarises the J* IR culture, and I feel you may be regretting the smugness much sooner that you may realise. Again, I'll just leave it at that.
Good luck to the QF drivers, let's hope it all works out and no hats are harmed in the making of these stories!
Squawking 7600
Last edited by Squawk-7600; 10th Sep 2012 at 05:54.
Ahhh Jeez Squawk, if you go then I'm not going to eat my hat in 12 months. I'll just conveniently forget this conversation ever took place. You're right though, there is a lot of crazy talk on this D&G.
Have fun, Framer.
Have fun, Framer.
Teresa,
Jetstar International is a basket case.....40-50% load factors and discounted fares.....good luck keep it up and even Qantas won't be able to pay the bills. A hell of an expensive industrial fight. Valueair Board have stated they do not expect to return their cost of capital in the forseeable future in fact their words were "it is unlikely that Valuair will have taxable profits in the forseeable future". I guess that is what the QF cash was for...New Board and new management with some aviation background will do due diliegence and shut it down. It may be too late to save the Qantas Group....Your son would do well to take his experience elsewhere...
Jetstar International is a basket case.....40-50% load factors and discounted fares.....good luck keep it up and even Qantas won't be able to pay the bills. A hell of an expensive industrial fight. Valueair Board have stated they do not expect to return their cost of capital in the forseeable future in fact their words were "it is unlikely that Valuair will have taxable profits in the forseeable future". I guess that is what the QF cash was for...New Board and new management with some aviation background will do due diliegence and shut it down. It may be too late to save the Qantas Group....Your son would do well to take his experience elsewhere...
Last edited by busdriver007; 10th Sep 2012 at 08:28.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear Oh dear, JQ is travelling quite well, and its not going anywhere, and if they pay so well what the hell are you blokes doing in QF? Like Squawk, I am out of here, just glad I flew when I did. good luck fellas and goodbye.
Originally Posted by Tagneah
Just wish I could catch up with the QF Skipper I came across in Insomnia the other month that told me my 777 Command at EK is ok but "its not like its a Qantas Command".
just how many drinks had you had?
Funny, i would have thought a 777 command was the same as a qantas command!!
there are d*&heads at QF.
Im sure there are d*&heads at whatever airline you're at.
Suck it up. move on.
For all you people saying this deal is the end of QF, how the hell would you know. I cant stand AJ, but it needed to be done. Personally, I dont think there will be any job losses. In fact, I think there will be some opportunities, particularly in domestic. Couple this with shared BL's (finally), maybe even some in Long haul as the senior scum do their BL's, see how the rest of the crew live, and hopefully pull the pin!!
there are d*&heads at QF.
Im sure there are d*&heads at whatever airline you're at.
Suck it up. move on.
For all you people saying this deal is the end of QF, how the hell would you know. I cant stand AJ, but it needed to be done. Personally, I dont think there will be any job losses. In fact, I think there will be some opportunities, particularly in domestic. Couple this with shared BL's (finally), maybe even some in Long haul as the senior scum do their BL's, see how the rest of the crew live, and hopefully pull the pin!!
Last edited by goodonyamate; 10th Sep 2012 at 10:12.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
JQ int regularly posts load factors up to 10% below mainline. The pax figures released each month are padded over 100% by including domestic passengers in NZ and Australia.
Three months ago a spreadsheet was presented to JQ management which indicated a potential large discrepancy in those figures. After promising to get back to the person making the enquiry in a few days, they stonewalled this person and continue to do so. No explanation of why their figures appear to be routinely inflated. The spreadsheet has now gone elsewhere.
Watch this space.
Three months ago a spreadsheet was presented to JQ management which indicated a potential large discrepancy in those figures. After promising to get back to the person making the enquiry in a few days, they stonewalled this person and continue to do so. No explanation of why their figures appear to be routinely inflated. The spreadsheet has now gone elsewhere.
Watch this space.