Qantas August 23rd announcements
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Very sad occasion. We may not know the full ramifications from the decision to close this facility and its support workshops for some years.
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And somehow he orchestrated a grounding of the fleet on a whim after waking up on a Saturday morning.
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QF Melb. B737 Heavy Maintenance
Apologies for the thread drift, but just for the record:
Qantas Heavy Maintenance Melbourne closing down ceremony was held today at the maintenance facility: photo display; speeches; formal 'last gang photo' pics; food; souvenir book; the last B737 to be checked and delivered by Melb. Heavy Maintenance ceremoniously towed through a water arch created by two fire tenders........
Very sad occasion. We may not know the full ramifications from the decision to close this facility and its support workshops for some years.
In memory of all who served at 'the maintenance base Tulla', whether in the hangar or 'inside', i.e. workshops/process shops):
Trans-Australia Airlines: 1971-1986;
Australian Airlines: 1986-1992;
Qantas Airways: 1992-2012.
'We were the champions!'
Goodnight and goodbye.
Apologies for the thread drift, but just for the record:
Qantas Heavy Maintenance Melbourne closing down ceremony was held today at the maintenance facility: photo display; speeches; formal 'last gang photo' pics; food; souvenir book; the last B737 to be checked and delivered by Melb. Heavy Maintenance ceremoniously towed through a water arch created by two fire tenders........
Very sad occasion. We may not know the full ramifications from the decision to close this facility and its support workshops for some years.
In memory of all who served at 'the maintenance base Tulla', whether in the hangar or 'inside', i.e. workshops/process shops):
Trans-Australia Airlines: 1971-1986;
Australian Airlines: 1986-1992;
Qantas Airways: 1992-2012.
'We were the champions!'
Goodnight and goodbye.
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K9P wrote:
Isn't that how this thread started? QANTAS lose $245million, QANTAS International dragging the group down, High oil prices blamed for additional costs and lack of incoming tourists blamed on high Aussie dollar, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH........
Ushuaia wrote:
Yes I can and I did. I used the most recent figures that are applicable to the current situation, and yes I have taken the time to peruse the previous figures and they remain fairly consistent. 10-15 years ago, we didn't have Jetstar, Scoot, Air AsiaX, Etihad, Emirates, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia (international) and Tiger flying our skies. I deliberately omitted Jetstar from the statistics as I was highlighting QANTAS International's figures, not the QANTAS Group, as it is continually and clearly stated that QANTAS International is dragging the profits down and absorbing 38% Group's invested capital.
Market share has been "lost" due to the cutting back of routes or handing routes over to Jetstar or "Alliance Partners".
The Joe Public I ask must be different to your Joe Public. People I speak with want to fly QANTAS wherever they can and do so, but their options are limited, and getting less, BUT they still choose to fly QANTAS.
There's no argument what AJ and Co are doing to QANTAS International, and that is stripping it back to almost nothing.
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Ushuaia wrote:
Yes, lies, damned lies and statistics is right.
You cannot just grab May 2012's figures, make sweeping statements about maintaining a double market share over the next airline and then somehow translate that into things not changing much over time. I don't have the time to drag out all the references, but yes, delving back into time: about 10-15 years ago Qantas International had a bit over 35% of the traffic out of Australia. Now it has 18%, and the Group has 26% of the traffic when you include Jetstar. So overall, over time, yes, market share has been lost.
You cannot just grab May 2012's figures, make sweeping statements about maintaining a double market share over the next airline and then somehow translate that into things not changing much over time. I don't have the time to drag out all the references, but yes, delving back into time: about 10-15 years ago Qantas International had a bit over 35% of the traffic out of Australia. Now it has 18%, and the Group has 26% of the traffic when you include Jetstar. So overall, over time, yes, market share has been lost.
Market share has been "lost" due to the cutting back of routes or handing routes over to Jetstar or "Alliance Partners".
There are a number of reasons for this: extra capacity is one very big reason but the other reason is we have driven customers to that alternative capacity. You just have to ask Joe Public - they "used to fly Qantas but, sorry, now I am flying XYZ." I have alluded already to the reasons why QF has driven customers away.
There's no argument what AJ and Co are doing to QANTAS International, and that is stripping it back to almost nothing.
Last edited by QF94; 30th Aug 2012 at 14:31.
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QF94: you can put me on the list that chooses not to fly QF. Haven't done so for about 4 years now after a 48 hour journey with connections to a destination in the US for an expected 24 hour trip. In concert with previous less-than-expected flight experiences, that was the last straw for me. I understand crap happens, as it does to all airlines, but QF staffs' handling of the matter was abysmal and without empathy.
One thing for the employees to blame management for all the woes. It's another thing when you see the same nonchalent, ambivalent attitude pervading the service levels to the customer from a significant proportion of the frontline staff. (Was this also apparent in the LAX PJ affair?) Difficult to feel any sympathy for the fortunes of the airline or its employees. I'm sure there are lots of ex-customers with similar stories and unfortunately, once the customers are gone, they cost an arm and a leg to get back. And what's worse is that they, like me, finding the other operators exceeding QF in perceived value, are strongly encouraging acquaintances to try the other airlines when next they travel.
One thing for the employees to blame management for all the woes. It's another thing when you see the same nonchalent, ambivalent attitude pervading the service levels to the customer from a significant proportion of the frontline staff. (Was this also apparent in the LAX PJ affair?) Difficult to feel any sympathy for the fortunes of the airline or its employees. I'm sure there are lots of ex-customers with similar stories and unfortunately, once the customers are gone, they cost an arm and a leg to get back. And what's worse is that they, like me, finding the other operators exceeding QF in perceived value, are strongly encouraging acquaintances to try the other airlines when next they travel.
Last edited by Lodown; 30th Aug 2012 at 17:33.
I'm with Lodown since my last flight with Qantas - about 2002 to LAX and beyond Business class $7000 bucks worth - the flight was cancelled at pushback after a spoiler actuator leak was discovered. Unloaded, transit to fcuking Sydney, shoved on board a LAX bound flight and ignored across the Pacific and then ignored back to Australia Three weeks later. I had better service on American economy domestic flights then Qantas business class.
Qantas : tired aircraft, tired product, tired and disillusioned staff.
And no. The A380, Grange and Neill Perry menus don't do it any more.
I don't know anyone who will willingly fly Qantas if they can avoid it. Everyone is after Etihad, Emirates or Singapore direct out of Melbourne.
Qantas : tired aircraft, tired product, tired and disillusioned staff.
And no. The A380, Grange and Neill Perry menus don't do it any more.
I don't know anyone who will willingly fly Qantas if they can avoid it. Everyone is after Etihad, Emirates or Singapore direct out of Melbourne.
Last edited by Sunfish; 30th Aug 2012 at 20:24.
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7:30 Report 30 Aug
For those that did not see Dawe & Clarke last night; 7.30 - ABC
BRYAN DAWE: OK, so what do you do, Morris?
JOHN CLARKE: What do I do?
BRYAN DAWE: Yeah.
JOHN CLARKE: I work for Qantas.
BRYAN DAWE: Oh, really? Lucky you. What do you do there?
JOHN CLARKE: Well, every week we load a whole lotta jobs into a big cannon, and then on the Friday ...
BRYAN DAWE: You fire it.
JOHN CLARKE: No, we photograph it and we email the photograph to all staff.
BRYAN DAWE: Why?
JOHN CLARKE: Well it's character-building, we feel.
BRYAN DAWE: Keeps them on their toes?
JOHN CLARKE: It does. We've got a very happy staff down there.
BRYAN DAWE: OK, so what do you do, Morris?
JOHN CLARKE: What do I do?
BRYAN DAWE: Yeah.
JOHN CLARKE: I work for Qantas.
BRYAN DAWE: Oh, really? Lucky you. What do you do there?
JOHN CLARKE: Well, every week we load a whole lotta jobs into a big cannon, and then on the Friday ...
BRYAN DAWE: You fire it.
JOHN CLARKE: No, we photograph it and we email the photograph to all staff.
BRYAN DAWE: Why?
JOHN CLARKE: Well it's character-building, we feel.
BRYAN DAWE: Keeps them on their toes?
JOHN CLARKE: It does. We've got a very happy staff down there.
Well QF94, you must only be talking to 18.4% of Joe Public. That's using the figures you presented here; they show that 81.6% of Joe Public is flying with someone else. And that number is greater than what it was 10-15 years ago. That cannot be disputed. Even after you strip out the cannibalizing of mainline by JQ, more pax ARE flying with non QF Group airlines compared to 10-15 years ago.
The reasons are complex but basically come down to: QF doesn't fly to where the pax want to go; there's a growing perception of it becoming less "Australian"; a growing perception of slipping safety standards; variable cabin experience; expensive; a dislike of the JQ alternative; a massive increase in capacity/alternative airlines. Oh, and another one: internationally they can never use their FF points when and how they want. Ask them. FF Business is a "fantastic business", just not for the pax. I am constantly hearing tales of pax abandoning QF international for SQ/EK/etc despite holding wads of FF points (they will use the points domestically instead, certainly).
That pretty much sums up what is on a passenger's mind when they think/say: "I'd really like to fly QF internationally, but I can get to Paris with EK for less money, faster and they are a good product, I hear. Oh and QF used to be the safest but, well, what about all those problems they have had recently?"
Para 2 is where QF needs to focus its "four-pillar" strategy!
The reasons are complex but basically come down to: QF doesn't fly to where the pax want to go; there's a growing perception of it becoming less "Australian"; a growing perception of slipping safety standards; variable cabin experience; expensive; a dislike of the JQ alternative; a massive increase in capacity/alternative airlines. Oh, and another one: internationally they can never use their FF points when and how they want. Ask them. FF Business is a "fantastic business", just not for the pax. I am constantly hearing tales of pax abandoning QF international for SQ/EK/etc despite holding wads of FF points (they will use the points domestically instead, certainly).
That pretty much sums up what is on a passenger's mind when they think/say: "I'd really like to fly QF internationally, but I can get to Paris with EK for less money, faster and they are a good product, I hear. Oh and QF used to be the safest but, well, what about all those problems they have had recently?"
Para 2 is where QF needs to focus its "four-pillar" strategy!
Last edited by Ushuaia; 31st Aug 2012 at 00:22.
I'm not one to defend alan joyce and co so don't think that.
But to compare with EK, they can load passengers up from all corners of the globe, from their hub position in the world, and then ship the ones who want to, off to Paris for example is a bit unfair and part of the reason the middle eastern carriers even exist in their current size and form today.
Qantas can take pax from Australia and ship them to either Singapore to codeshare with someone else or LHR. That's it west of Australia. That's not alan joyces fault, nor geoff dixons. It's a disadvantage and it needs to be recognised as no ones fault but geography.
Hence the reason there is the big push to base out of Singapore in the future with the 787's. Just you wait, they will all be based out of SIN, Jetstar will morph into a full service carrier with a LCC cost base and will be able to pick up passengers from all corners of Asia and ship them off the European destinations. Just like Emirates.
The question is, does Qantas tie up with someone that lets them share a hub or do they go it alone with Jetstar/RedQ/whatever in a 2nd country. At the moment I reckon they're hedging bets. That's where the 787-9s will go or at least the majority.
But to compare with EK, they can load passengers up from all corners of the globe, from their hub position in the world, and then ship the ones who want to, off to Paris for example is a bit unfair and part of the reason the middle eastern carriers even exist in their current size and form today.
Qantas can take pax from Australia and ship them to either Singapore to codeshare with someone else or LHR. That's it west of Australia. That's not alan joyces fault, nor geoff dixons. It's a disadvantage and it needs to be recognised as no ones fault but geography.
Hence the reason there is the big push to base out of Singapore in the future with the 787's. Just you wait, they will all be based out of SIN, Jetstar will morph into a full service carrier with a LCC cost base and will be able to pick up passengers from all corners of Asia and ship them off the European destinations. Just like Emirates.
The question is, does Qantas tie up with someone that lets them share a hub or do they go it alone with Jetstar/RedQ/whatever in a 2nd country. At the moment I reckon they're hedging bets. That's where the 787-9s will go or at least the majority.
To all of you in Melbourne Heavy and Line - all the best!
You were the best and the likes of your knowledge, experience and ability have been sadly under estimated!
You will be missed by all of us!
Collectively, I would like to thank you for your friendship and help over the decades.
I wish you health and happiness as you depart the shell of what used to be - Bon Voyage!
1746
You were the best and the likes of your knowledge, experience and ability have been sadly under estimated!
You will be missed by all of us!
Collectively, I would like to thank you for your friendship and help over the decades.
I wish you health and happiness as you depart the shell of what used to be - Bon Voyage!
1746
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Sunfish, Ushuaia and to all those that have had bad experiences with QANTAS and dislike it it for whatever their reasons. This is a personal choice and that's fair enough. I'm not trying to woo you back to QANTAS and am happy for you to fly with the airline of your choice that suits your needs and satisfies your expectations.
What I'm about to say will not please many, if any, but as we are all free to voice our opinions, I will do the same, as this is the Australian thing to do, and this doesn't relate to just QANTAS. The same can be said for the passengers and Australians in general, becoming "less Australian". What's the worst thing you can call an Australian? UnAustralian. They're quite happy to let everything "Australian" disappear or become diluted around them, because "Australian" products don't suit them or serve their needs, because foriegn products serve them better, or are simply better in their own minds.
Is QANTAS perfect? Far from it. Does QANTAS have the best service? No. What is the best service? Who knows? This is a personal choice, and there are those that think Singapore has the best, those that think Emirates is the best and those that think QANTAS has the best and stay with them. Say what you like, there are people who believe QANTAS has a service that suits their needs. Mock and knock, but it's a reality.
We will never agree on everything, but that's life. Has QANTAS slipped from where it was years ago? Most definitely. What's the fix? People on here believe for it to disappear or to shrink and become a feeder airline for airlines of their choice. I disagree, but that's what forums are all about.
We are quick to knock our own products and talk them down (a bit like AJ and Co) but when they disappear one by one (remember Ansett, owned by a foreign airline and then sent bust, and plenty more like them) people, not unlike yourselves, will just shrug your shoulders and say "What a shame. They were a great company" and continue on their merry way supporting and funding foreign companies and foreign workers, no matter the industry. I guess that's what happens when people have become too accustomed to perceived champagne service, on beer budgets and intolerant of anything less than "perfect".
QF doesn't fly to where the pax want to go; there's a growing perception of it becoming less "Australian"
Is QANTAS perfect? Far from it. Does QANTAS have the best service? No. What is the best service? Who knows? This is a personal choice, and there are those that think Singapore has the best, those that think Emirates is the best and those that think QANTAS has the best and stay with them. Say what you like, there are people who believe QANTAS has a service that suits their needs. Mock and knock, but it's a reality.
We will never agree on everything, but that's life. Has QANTAS slipped from where it was years ago? Most definitely. What's the fix? People on here believe for it to disappear or to shrink and become a feeder airline for airlines of their choice. I disagree, but that's what forums are all about.
We are quick to knock our own products and talk them down (a bit like AJ and Co) but when they disappear one by one (remember Ansett, owned by a foreign airline and then sent bust, and plenty more like them) people, not unlike yourselves, will just shrug your shoulders and say "What a shame. They were a great company" and continue on their merry way supporting and funding foreign companies and foreign workers, no matter the industry. I guess that's what happens when people have become too accustomed to perceived champagne service, on beer budgets and intolerant of anything less than "perfect".
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So FRA is now another destination going? Jeez!!! That will only mean more crew surplus,what a sad state of affairs 
I can hear the distant tapping of another nail in the QANTAS coffin.
We'll just wait and see.
Sunfish
I'm usually a massive fan of yours Sunfish, but to base your opinion of today's Qantas from a flight 10 years ago isn't exactly fair.
That was pre-(lie flat) skybed, pre A380, pre-Panasonic IFE, and not a true representation of the Qantas today. All airlines have improved out of sight as well, but you might be pleasantly surprised, you never know.
I'm with Lodown since my last flight with Qantas - about 2002 to LAX
That was pre-(lie flat) skybed, pre A380, pre-Panasonic IFE, and not a true representation of the Qantas today. All airlines have improved out of sight as well, but you might be pleasantly surprised, you never know.
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Sunfish
Quote:
I'm with Lodown since my last flight with Qantas - about 2002 to LAX
I'm usually a massive fan of yours Sunfish, but to base your opinion of today's Qantas from a flight 10 years ago isn't exactly fair.
That was pre-(lie flat) skybed, pre A380, pre-Panasonic IFE, and not a true representation of the Qantas today. All airlines have improved out of sight as well, but you might be pleasantly surprised, you never know.
Quote:
I'm with Lodown since my last flight with Qantas - about 2002 to LAX
I'm usually a massive fan of yours Sunfish, but to base your opinion of today's Qantas from a flight 10 years ago isn't exactly fair.
That was pre-(lie flat) skybed, pre A380, pre-Panasonic IFE, and not a true representation of the Qantas today. All airlines have improved out of sight as well, but you might be pleasantly surprised, you never know.
I wouldn't bother with the likes of these guys. The dislike/hatred of QANTAS is obviously so ingrained, QANTAS will never be good enough for them. You could liken it to Grumpy Old Men. Once they don't like you, you'll never be good enough.
short flights long nights
EK does not want 787s, they are too small.If they wanted them, TC would have ordered them ages ago.