Union skirmish now personal
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It seems to be forgotten that it is not compulsory to join a union and so therefore no obligation to pay fees to anybody.
There is a very significant number of employees in the aircraft industry that not only do not contribute to funds required by a union body to represent them, but go running to the local rep when wanting information or if in trouble with the employer.
All employees go to the union meetings, have their say, ask Jtheir questions, put their five cents worth in whether they are members or not. The non members have the benefit of being represented by the union in negotiations with the employer without paying.
In the past these negotiations have provided improved rates of pay for improved work output, etc. and currently, the redundancy clauses in today's work climate.
The union spends these fees on infrastructure and their legal staff providing better outcomes in return for ther members.Without the union at all, employees would be on their own, fending for themselves and being asked to sign AWA's for far fewer benefits and less pay.
I don' t think that I have ever seen a non member get a higher rate of pay or better deal than a member of the same classification.
Joyce would have ALL pilots and engineers on far less salary if he could get away with it and a non member today would be walking around with a target on his back.
There are good reasons why a company has to reduce costs, and sometimes bad ones, but unions are the only ones able to stand up and take action collectively when companies actions are just plain wrong. A non member needs to cashed up if he/she wants to go to court over an issue concerning themselves.
I've never seen a non member going to court for the benefit of his/her workmates.
Unions inept? outdated?
Some people like Craig Thompson may be, but if you don't want a union, you don't have to be a member and ride for free on the fees the members pay, but expect to represent yourself if YOU get into trouble.
I'm fortunate that today, I don't work for an employer and am well off, but I have the association/union to thank over the years to enable me to accumulate enough from good salary to start, operate, expand and finally sell my own business (for a good return).
There is a very significant number of employees in the aircraft industry that not only do not contribute to funds required by a union body to represent them, but go running to the local rep when wanting information or if in trouble with the employer.
All employees go to the union meetings, have their say, ask Jtheir questions, put their five cents worth in whether they are members or not. The non members have the benefit of being represented by the union in negotiations with the employer without paying.
In the past these negotiations have provided improved rates of pay for improved work output, etc. and currently, the redundancy clauses in today's work climate.
The union spends these fees on infrastructure and their legal staff providing better outcomes in return for ther members.Without the union at all, employees would be on their own, fending for themselves and being asked to sign AWA's for far fewer benefits and less pay.
I don' t think that I have ever seen a non member get a higher rate of pay or better deal than a member of the same classification.
Joyce would have ALL pilots and engineers on far less salary if he could get away with it and a non member today would be walking around with a target on his back.
There are good reasons why a company has to reduce costs, and sometimes bad ones, but unions are the only ones able to stand up and take action collectively when companies actions are just plain wrong. A non member needs to cashed up if he/she wants to go to court over an issue concerning themselves.
I've never seen a non member going to court for the benefit of his/her workmates.
Unions inept? outdated?
Some people like Craig Thompson may be, but if you don't want a union, you don't have to be a member and ride for free on the fees the members pay, but expect to represent yourself if YOU get into trouble.
I'm fortunate that today, I don't work for an employer and am well off, but I have the association/union to thank over the years to enable me to accumulate enough from good salary to start, operate, expand and finally sell my own business (for a good return).
Last edited by AEROMEDIC; 20th Oct 2012 at 00:44.
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After their last EBA NSW paramedics left the HSU in droves to join a newly formed national professional association founded and run by operational paramedics. No political affiliations are tolerated and no member contributions are donated to political parties. They are sufficiently financial enough to employ had picked a very good team of industrial lawyers, with great experience and knowledge of how FWA works, to represent their members in both individual and collective problems. I have joined the same organisation in Victoria after a disgraceful outcome in our EBA when the ALP was in power. A question was raised at a union meeting as to just how much the union was contributing to the ALP, who , at the time were screwing us to the wall. The question was not answered - danced around by the executive - mentioned an obligation to the parent union the LMHU. When it was investigated, the union's financial statement revealed nothing other than fees to the parent union. I then investigated the parent union's financial statements to find over $300,000 dollars over 2 years paid to " The ALP, Trades Hall and it's Affiliates".
In Victoria , we are currently in the early stages of out EBA and the professional organisation I am now a member of is representing a significant amount of us, and very well. Although the outcome is a collective vote , they will ensure the most honest outcome under the present law. Under current FWA law union membership is not a pre requisite for representation in industrial matters.
Think of what you are paying in union fees . Think of how many of you there are. Think about getting organised. Register yourself with FWA. Use dedicated and enthusiastic members to do the groundwork like membership, treasury etc. I did it for 12 months. It was a labour of love .The funds soon build up. I know that , if I am in the poo, and need help, I would rather a qualified and experienced industrial lawyer in my corner than a politically motivated union rep. Just saying there are alternatives.
In Victoria , we are currently in the early stages of out EBA and the professional organisation I am now a member of is representing a significant amount of us, and very well. Although the outcome is a collective vote , they will ensure the most honest outcome under the present law. Under current FWA law union membership is not a pre requisite for representation in industrial matters.
Think of what you are paying in union fees . Think of how many of you there are. Think about getting organised. Register yourself with FWA. Use dedicated and enthusiastic members to do the groundwork like membership, treasury etc. I did it for 12 months. It was a labour of love .The funds soon build up. I know that , if I am in the poo, and need help, I would rather a qualified and experienced industrial lawyer in my corner than a politically motivated union rep. Just saying there are alternatives.
Last edited by priapism; 20th Oct 2012 at 02:00.
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Well done Priapism.
The point is that the workers who live and breath the day to day work place are the ones with the power not a bunch of mouthpieces spewing insults. The sooner the "Union Movement" is shown as the waste of time and money that it is the better. I'm all for everyone getting a fair go and fair pay for the work they do but i for one am sick and tired of the disgraceful and sometimes criminal behaviour of some Unions. They are detrimental to workers, the company and our economy as a whole.
The point is that the workers who live and breath the day to day work place are the ones with the power not a bunch of mouthpieces spewing insults. The sooner the "Union Movement" is shown as the waste of time and money that it is the better. I'm all for everyone getting a fair go and fair pay for the work they do but i for one am sick and tired of the disgraceful and sometimes criminal behaviour of some Unions. They are detrimental to workers, the company and our economy as a whole.
Who is better equipped? How about the workers themselves?
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Arnold you really are a goose. If you want bloated organisations who are only have self interest at heart then go pay your "dues". As i said the only people who really know the issues are the people who are involved all day everyday.
Have fun with your preselection obsessed reps!
Have fun with your preselection obsessed reps!
After their last EBA NSW paramedics left the HSU in droves to join a newly formed national professional association founded and run by operational paramedics.
What do you call the above???
Well done Priapism.
What do you call the above???
Yep, I'm a goose and your a genius.
Last edited by Arnold E; 20th Oct 2012 at 07:26.
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Cargo,
You clearly don't belong to a union, so do you negotiate personally with your employer?
Have you been offered a separate agreement for yourself and if not , how is your salary paid?
If you are unhappy about how things are done, go to your employer and say so.
I'm sure they 'll be listening to you.
You clearly don't belong to a union, so do you negotiate personally with your employer?
Have you been offered a separate agreement for yourself and if not , how is your salary paid?
If you are unhappy about how things are done, go to your employer and say so.
I'm sure they 'll be listening to you.
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After their last EBA NSW paramedics left the HSU in droves to join a newly formed national professional association founded and run by operational paramedics. No political affiliations are tolerated and no member contributions are donated to political parties. They are sufficiently financial enough to employ had picked a very good team of industrial lawyers, with great experience and knowledge of how FWA works, to represent their members in both individual and collective problems. I have joined the same organisation in Victoria after a disgraceful outcome in our EBA when the ALP was in power. A question was raised at a union meeting as to just how much the union was contributing to the ALP, who , at the time were screwing us to the wall. The question was not answered - danced around by the executive - mentioned an obligation to the parent union the LMHU. When it was investigated, the union's financial statement revealed nothing other than fees to the parent union. I then investigated the parent union's financial statements to find over $300,000 dollars over 2 years paid to " The ALP, Trades Hall and it's Affiliates".
In Victoria , we are currently in the early stages of out EBA and the professional organisation I am now a member of is representing a significant amount of us, and very well. Although the outcome is a collective vote , they will ensure the most honest outcome under the present law. Under current FWA law union membership is not a pre requisite for representation in industrial matters.
Think of what you are paying in union fees . Think of how many of you there are. Think about getting organised. Register yourself with FWA. Use dedicated and enthusiastic members to do the groundwork like membership, treasury etc. I did it for 12 months. It was a labour of love .The funds soon build up. I know that , if I am in the poo, and need help, I would rather a qualified and experienced industrial lawyer in my corner than a politically motivated union rep. Just saying there are alternatives.
In Victoria , we are currently in the early stages of out EBA and the professional organisation I am now a member of is representing a significant amount of us, and very well. Although the outcome is a collective vote , they will ensure the most honest outcome under the present law. Under current FWA law union membership is not a pre requisite for representation in industrial matters.
Think of what you are paying in union fees . Think of how many of you there are. Think about getting organised. Register yourself with FWA. Use dedicated and enthusiastic members to do the groundwork like membership, treasury etc. I did it for 12 months. It was a labour of love .The funds soon build up. I know that , if I am in the poo, and need help, I would rather a qualified and experienced industrial lawyer in my corner than a politically motivated union rep. Just saying there are alternatives.
Cargo, the next time you have a day off sick and get paid for it, you can send me a PM and say "thank you Arnie for fighting for this for me through your union". The next time you get your holiday pay and get your leave loading you can send me a PM and say "thank you Arnie for fighting for this through your union". When you take your long service leave you can send me a PM and say "thank you Arnie for fighting for this through your union". Now if you dont get any of these things, well let me tell you, I get them all, and if you do get them, then you are riding on my, and other unionists back, because I was there during all of these struggles and I can tell you that no employer offered them, it was all fought for. So, do I hear you saying, thanks Arnie and all of your unionist mates from that era, or are you just going to scab on the work of all of us and go on your merry way???
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Nah, they're managers, on big fancy packages that are so fancy they can't tell anyone the details. 
That's because they're individually negotiated and when you hear some of the details from some of the individuals they're just not that fancy 
.
That's okay, because they're much more important than you are.
They won't dare call in sick, they won't dare take their annual leave and they'll work sixty hour weeks for a salary package factored on thirty eight, but they're doing great, just ask them.
The 'all unionists are crims' argument is like the 'all priests are peds' argument; pervasive, popular with the cool set and competely untrue. Never let that get in the way of a good story though, particularly at EBA time when the whole management 'team' has been off to seminars about how to divide and conquer their stoopid workers.
Unions | directory.actu.org.au
The majority of unions listed above that haven't been accused of rorting, that aren't big and newsworthy and that consistently do their thing for their members.
Absolutely correct and so are a bunch of due paying people. That doesn't make the majority guilty. Show me another way that the relatively uneducated worker can stand against his/her company's HR experts and finance gurus when it comes to pay and conditions time and I'll support you. In the meantime, my experience with non-union worker representative groups is that they bow to the first pressure, buy all the corporate BS thrown at them and sell their group up the garden path out of fear and ignorance. I'm not referring to professional associations or half breeds 
like the ALAEA, but the token 'representative' group that exists in many non unionised companies that is frequently hand picked by HR so as to cause the least trouble for the company.
IME the MO is to find a bunch of scared neurotic people who really want promotion but aren't capable. Stick 'em on a committee and tell them they're important, then tell them what the company wants and why they have no choice.
Just my experience.
That's because they're individually negotiated and when you hear some of the details from some of the individuals they're just not that fancy . That's okay, because they're much more important than you are.
They won't dare call in sick, they won't dare take their annual leave and they'll work sixty hour weeks for a salary package factored on thirty eight, but they're doing great, just ask them. The 'all unionists are crims' argument is like the 'all priests are peds' argument; pervasive, popular with the cool set and competely untrue. Never let that get in the way of a good story though, particularly at EBA time when the whole management 'team' has been off to seminars about how to divide and conquer their stoopid workers.
Unions | directory.actu.org.au
The majority of unions listed above that haven't been accused of rorting, that aren't big and newsworthy and that consistently do their thing for their members.
I'm all for everyone getting a fair go and fair pay for the work they do but i for one am sick and tired of the disgraceful and sometimes criminal behaviour of some Unions. They are detrimental to workers, the company and our economy as a whole.
That doesn't make the majority guilty. Show me another way that the relatively uneducated worker can stand against his/her company's HR experts and finance gurus when it comes to pay and conditions time and I'll support you. In the meantime, my experience with non-union worker representative groups is that they bow to the first pressure, buy all the corporate BS thrown at them and sell their group up the garden path out of fear and ignorance. I'm not referring to professional associations or half breeds like the ALAEA, but the token 'representative' group that exists in many non unionised companies that is frequently hand picked by HR so as to cause the least trouble for the company. IME the MO is to find a bunch of scared neurotic people who really want promotion but aren't capable. Stick 'em on a committee and tell them they're important, then tell them what the company wants and why they have no choice.
Just my experience.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 20th Oct 2012 at 11:53.
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Arnold, you dont have to justify your argument to Cargo744. He is just another one of those faceless "Im better than the rest" and "I know it all" trolls who would no doubt be the first to scab on any fellow workmates if there was ever a need to stick together. He'd also dob in a workmate if he thought he'd get a pat on the back by his boss.
He probably carries pics of Joyce and Gina Reinhart in his wallet, is a Scientologist, puts his rubbish in his neighbors bin at night, wears an imitation Rolex watch and his favourite movie is Gone With The Wind.
He probably carries pics of Joyce and Gina Reinhart in his wallet, is a Scientologist, puts his rubbish in his neighbors bin at night, wears an imitation Rolex watch and his favourite movie is Gone With The Wind.
Last edited by genxfrog; 20th Oct 2012 at 12:04.
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GENXFROG... gee you know me so well!! One day you may open your eyes but in the mean time keep wandering aimlessly along. I better go and update the photo's in my wallet and give praise to Tom Cruise.
ALAEA Member & Proud of it!
ALAEA Member & Proud of it!I trust these guys and happily pay my dues!
I know they can't fix many of the ills in our industry but I know they are trying too!
I know they can't fix many of the ills in our industry but I know they are trying too!
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Originally Posted by Arnold E
On Earth, where I live, its true that we have had a very small number of rouge union leaders
Or do you mean rouge as in Red as in Communist?
But I'll go with a rogue typo creeping in....
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Romulus,
I'm glad it is not just me that think the Khmer Rouge are the rogues here.
Seen it many times but ...now they are on weekend release I'm onto it.
I'm glad it is not just me that think the Khmer Rouge are the rogues here.
Seen it many times but ...now they are on weekend release I'm onto it.
Last edited by ampclamp; 21st Oct 2012 at 09:59.
