Jetstar pilots fatigued?
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OMFG!!!
Eastmoore
ROFLMAO! 
That is the funniest thing I've read here for a long time!
I know both of these guys and you couldn't be more wrong.
DIVOSH!
Ill bet my left one that Normasars and rmcdonal have just transferred to Jet Star under the MOU. And have winged from day one about there conditions.
That is the funniest thing I've read here for a long time!
I know both of these guys and you couldn't be more wrong.
DIVOSH!
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Eastmoore
Lucky you only bet the left one!
Quote:
Ill bet my left one that Normasars and rmcdonal have just transferred to Jet Star under the MOU. And have winged from day one about there conditions.
Ill bet my left one that Normasars and rmcdonal have just transferred to Jet Star under the MOU. And have winged from day one about there conditions.
Headmaster,
using your logic then, I suppose there is no place for carriers like JQ , as these types of issues are the domain of that type of outfit.
RMCDONAL is nothing but a consummate professional btw.
using your logic then, I suppose there is no place for carriers like JQ , as these types of issues are the domain of that type of outfit.
RMCDONAL is nothing but a consummate professional btw.
My comment was directed at the argument that rmcdonal was clarifying. I was trying to distinguish between the argument that 'you knew what you were getting in to - so don't whinge', with my point that fatigue is a safety issue that has an impact on the travelling public.
A 'profession' is generally a vocation the consists of a set of skills and/or knowledge that is combined with a service to the public. A fatigued crew is a danger to the passengers, crew and anybody else impacted by the burning wreckage. Pay and other conditions are a related, but separate argument.
I too have issues with the lowering of standards and conditions in the industry, in part caused by pilots undercutting each other. I have no problem with those same pilots raising concerns that are flight-safety related, in fact I see it as a requirement of being a professional.
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We all have a responsibility to ourselves, our employer , each other and our familis and the travelling public, to speak up about any safety threats/ hazards in our work place. Fatigue is a safety hazard.
Legally we are required to speak up about it.
Criticising colleagues within the industry who needed to accept lessened weakened conditions so they could pay their mortgage seems a little mean spirited.
Legally we are required to speak up about it.
Criticising colleagues within the industry who needed to accept lessened weakened conditions so they could pay their mortgage seems a little mean spirited.
Last edited by LHLisa; 1st May 2012 at 14:15.
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LHLisa, I'm not sure I understand your post.
You say, quite rightly, that we have an obligation to speak up if safety is compromised, and fatigue certainly fits into this category.
Yet in your next sentence, you suggest that it is improper to critisize those who would disregard your first comment, simply so that they can pay their mortgages.
Your two comments there seem a little incongrouous, but inadvertantly, I think you have nailed the major issue here.
That is, these guys have signed on "to pay their mortgage"; but the question is: "at what cost is their mortgage"?
I understand that everyone needs to feed their kids, but I find it unacceptable that they might "pay their mortgage" and risk their passengers and other crew by doing so.
I also find it unacceptable to be told that it is "mean spirited" to critisize those who would pay their mortgages without due regard to safety.
No mortgage is worth this compromise. I would find it "mean spirited" to tell a next of kin that their loved one has died because no-one spoke up, when we know full well there is a big issue here.
We need to speak up. Jetstar pilots need to grow a set of cojones and stand up to Buchanan, Joyce and Clifford.
Please forgive me LHLisa if I've misunderstood your post, but I think the point that I make is valid.
You say, quite rightly, that we have an obligation to speak up if safety is compromised, and fatigue certainly fits into this category.
Yet in your next sentence, you suggest that it is improper to critisize those who would disregard your first comment, simply so that they can pay their mortgages.
Your two comments there seem a little incongrouous, but inadvertantly, I think you have nailed the major issue here.
That is, these guys have signed on "to pay their mortgage"; but the question is: "at what cost is their mortgage"?
I understand that everyone needs to feed their kids, but I find it unacceptable that they might "pay their mortgage" and risk their passengers and other crew by doing so.
I also find it unacceptable to be told that it is "mean spirited" to critisize those who would pay their mortgages without due regard to safety.
No mortgage is worth this compromise. I would find it "mean spirited" to tell a next of kin that their loved one has died because no-one spoke up, when we know full well there is a big issue here.
We need to speak up. Jetstar pilots need to grow a set of cojones and stand up to Buchanan, Joyce and Clifford.
Please forgive me LHLisa if I've misunderstood your post, but I think the point that I make is valid.
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Jetstar pilots need to grow a set of cojones and stand up to Buchanan, Joyce and Clifford.
CASA wrote the CAO48 exemption. WTF have those 3 got to do with it?
If CASA wrote it in a vacuum, then nothing...
If, on the other hand, there is industry input (pressure), then the statement about standing up to the company applying that pressure is valid.
If, on the other hand, there is industry input (pressure), then the statement about standing up to the company applying that pressure is valid.
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Let my reiterate/emphasize for you shon boy - Just because something is in some ops manual, in no way shape of form, means that it is safe out on the line.
As for the personal attacks - typical tactic. If you dont agree with an opinion attack the character. You dont know me. You never will. I know its hard for you to imagine that there could be a different opinion on things and to fathom that one could be in the same community and think this way. Doesn't bother me one bit. This is not even a debate at this point of time. Yawn.
Last edited by shon7; 4th May 2012 at 17:18.
Don't tell me...all this chest beating, "I can stay awake longer than you", Senator X's..." Toughen up Princesses" and other insider e-mails at Senate estimates, inquiries etc...etc may have had an affect....http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...nprm1202os.pdf 
Or is it a strategic ploy by the regulator just prior to the next estimates?? 
"This will put that pesky Senator X back in his box"!
Or is it a strategic ploy by the regulator just prior to the next estimates?? "This will put that pesky Senator X back in his box"!
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I know its hard for you to imagine that there could be a different opinion on things and to fathom that one could be in the same community and think this way.
I know it's not the community I live in, because you live in India. And it's not the community of professional airline pilots, because you have a PPL and 240 hrs. Well, it's definitely not the community of people trying to make aviation safer.
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Don't engage with Shon guys.
He's a wannabe that will neverbe.
The closest he will ever get to the airline industry is where he is now. Sitting in the bedroom of his parents house tapping away on his computer. Getting his rocks off by making contentious statements about things he knows absolutely nothing about.
The best thing we can do for the spoilt little Gen Y brat that clearly he, is to take his toys away and don't even give him a reply.
For me this pitiful little insignificant no longer exists.
He's a wannabe that will neverbe.
The closest he will ever get to the airline industry is where he is now. Sitting in the bedroom of his parents house tapping away on his computer. Getting his rocks off by making contentious statements about things he knows absolutely nothing about.
The best thing we can do for the spoilt little Gen Y brat that clearly he, is to take his toys away and don't even give him a reply.
For me this pitiful little insignificant no longer exists.
Nunc est bibendum
Folks, it's eminently simple.
User CP -> Under settings and options, Edit ignore list -> Add shon7 in the respective box. Voila!
This message is hidden because shon7 is on your ignore list.
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Shon7,
I don't normally engage trolls in public, however you are this month's "special case". I banned you for your objectionable behaviour (in this, and other threads) for a period, but you don't seem to have picked up the ball during your time in the naughty corner.
With your "level" of experience (sic), I have serious doubts that you have ever worked in an organisation using FMRS. Let alone understand what it's about. That leaves you ill-qualified to write about the matter.
Most of your posts seem to be deliberately aimed at incensing people that DO work within an FMRS organisation (once again demonstrating your lack of understanding of the concept). Always taking the opposing view without any facts to back you up, nonetheless. Opposing views against those people that actually have the experience and professional intestinal fortitude to report on shortcomings within their respective companies.
I considered banning you once again - permanently, this time. However, you have one last chance to prove yourself as a man (or woman) of substance, and back yourself up with fact, not bile and childish remarks.
You will be judged by your peers on this occasion.
Over to you
And the audience. Please be gentle, people
TID, your sensitive mod.
I don't normally engage trolls in public, however you are this month's "special case". I banned you for your objectionable behaviour (in this, and other threads) for a period, but you don't seem to have picked up the ball during your time in the naughty corner.
With your "level" of experience (sic), I have serious doubts that you have ever worked in an organisation using FMRS. Let alone understand what it's about. That leaves you ill-qualified to write about the matter.
Most of your posts seem to be deliberately aimed at incensing people that DO work within an FMRS organisation (once again demonstrating your lack of understanding of the concept). Always taking the opposing view without any facts to back you up, nonetheless. Opposing views against those people that actually have the experience and professional intestinal fortitude to report on shortcomings within their respective companies.
I considered banning you once again - permanently, this time. However, you have one last chance to prove yourself as a man (or woman) of substance, and back yourself up with fact, not bile and childish remarks.
You will be judged by your peers on this occasion.
Over to you
And the audience. Please be gentle, people
TID, your sensitive mod.
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It occurs to me that Shon7, who seems to disagree with generally everyone on this forum, should use Keg's technique, and "ignore" all other users. That way he won't have any more problems....
Sorry, was that insensitive, Tidbinbilla?
Sorry, was that insensitive, Tidbinbilla?