Air New Zealands future Job Prospects
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Air New Zealands future Job Prospects
Hi All.
I am an Air NZ second officer and have been for the past 5 years on the 747/777. I live in Christchurch, and am at this stage looking at another 5 years untill an airbus A320 FO job out of CHC. That's correct, an A320 FO job. (that is 10 years as an S/O) this is best guess work, and could well be longer.
Please note that this is going to be standard at Air NZ from now on. At the moment an A320 Captain slot at Air NZ is about 20 years from joining. I Repeat , 20 YEARS for an A320 Command!!
Please correct me if I am wrong. If I went to Jetstar now, how long would it take to command??? 3 years maybe?? compared to 20???? this is realistic. I am aware there is a well deserved pay rise on the horizon at Jetstar, which I am sure will overtake Air NZ base pay in the short term(wont take much).
What I am pointing out here, is that if you are looking at Air NZ for a long time career, think again, there are far superior options, you do the figures, don't be fooled, Air NZ maybe a fools game.
Officially Air NZ is now the slowest progressing Airline in the world, it has overtaken Air Canada, depressing I know, but correct.
This post is purely for information only.
All the Best Comrads
Bushwackernz
I am an Air NZ second officer and have been for the past 5 years on the 747/777. I live in Christchurch, and am at this stage looking at another 5 years untill an airbus A320 FO job out of CHC. That's correct, an A320 FO job. (that is 10 years as an S/O) this is best guess work, and could well be longer.
Please note that this is going to be standard at Air NZ from now on. At the moment an A320 Captain slot at Air NZ is about 20 years from joining. I Repeat , 20 YEARS for an A320 Command!!
Please correct me if I am wrong. If I went to Jetstar now, how long would it take to command??? 3 years maybe?? compared to 20???? this is realistic. I am aware there is a well deserved pay rise on the horizon at Jetstar, which I am sure will overtake Air NZ base pay in the short term(wont take much).
What I am pointing out here, is that if you are looking at Air NZ for a long time career, think again, there are far superior options, you do the figures, don't be fooled, Air NZ maybe a fools game.
Officially Air NZ is now the slowest progressing Airline in the world, it has overtaken Air Canada, depressing I know, but correct.
This post is purely for information only.
All the Best Comrads
Bushwackernz
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The training bubble for the 787 and greater than average retirements over the next few years should bring some relief. Might get you into the A320, but it's unlikely to be the left one.
If its the left seat you desire ASAP then your future lies elsewhere.
If its the left seat you desire ASAP then your future lies elsewhere.
The only way to a quick command is to either join an airline with a high turnover or one that is expanding. High turnover = poor conditions. Good conditions = low turnover. There is also the danger of joining a new airline that is expanding just until you join. With relatively young crew, it will take some time to get a steady stream of retirements and the new joiner will spend even more time in the right seat.
Simple mathematics would say that in an airline that is neither expanding nor contracting will have crew spend the same ratio of average career time in each position as the ratio of pilots in those positions. For example, if the average age of joining is 30 and average time of retirement 60, there is a career of 30 years. If the crew numbers are 1/3 Second Officer, 1/3 First Officer, 1/3 Captain, then you can expect to spend 1/3 of your time in each position. That is, 10 years in each rank. If the airline is expanding, quick promotion. Airline shrinking, slower promotion.
Now, if you join an airline that expands rapidly for 5 years and the average age of the crew is young so no retirements, and they stop expanding, you could be an F/O (or S/O) for a VERY long time.
These low-cost/pay airlines are kind of like a pyramid selling scheme for crew. Get in quick, get a quick command, and you are sweet, as the captain pay may be well less than the 'legacy' airlines, but you are on that captain pay for way, way longer. Last one in and you are pretty much screwed.
Simple mathematics would say that in an airline that is neither expanding nor contracting will have crew spend the same ratio of average career time in each position as the ratio of pilots in those positions. For example, if the average age of joining is 30 and average time of retirement 60, there is a career of 30 years. If the crew numbers are 1/3 Second Officer, 1/3 First Officer, 1/3 Captain, then you can expect to spend 1/3 of your time in each position. That is, 10 years in each rank. If the airline is expanding, quick promotion. Airline shrinking, slower promotion.
Now, if you join an airline that expands rapidly for 5 years and the average age of the crew is young so no retirements, and they stop expanding, you could be an F/O (or S/O) for a VERY long time.
These low-cost/pay airlines are kind of like a pyramid selling scheme for crew. Get in quick, get a quick command, and you are sweet, as the captain pay may be well less than the 'legacy' airlines, but you are on that captain pay for way, way longer. Last one in and you are pretty much screwed.
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Are you interested in command or lifestyle/remuneration?
If its just about command go to Jetstar etc, or even stay at the links.
Personally Im not too worried about command, Ive had it in previous jobs. Ive also done more interesting flying. For me its all about the terms and conditions, and for that ANZ is hard to beat. Heaps of time off, good money, company doesnt muck you around too much.
For me ANZ is far better than the alternatives.
If its just about command go to Jetstar etc, or even stay at the links.
Personally Im not too worried about command, Ive had it in previous jobs. Ive also done more interesting flying. For me its all about the terms and conditions, and for that ANZ is hard to beat. Heaps of time off, good money, company doesnt muck you around too much.
For me ANZ is far better than the alternatives.
I thought QANTAS mainline was the slowest progressing airline in the world!
Trust me mate, terms and conditions are far far more important than progression. FO / CAPTAIN for a sh*t airline or SO / FO for Air New Zealand. I think that I would sit fat dumb and happy as an SO, you would be taking a pay cut to go to Jetstar as an FO, would be a minimum of 3 years to command and by then the expansion may have stopped and you might end up stuck as an FO at Jetstar 
20 years next to grandad and their WW2 era CRM gets a bit tedious.
I'd hate to be in the back of a 380 at QF or in the right seat of a 330 purely for this reason!
Pilots by their very nature are ambitious and their comes a time when you need to flee the nest and taste the rewards and challenges of being a commander.
None of us joined an airline to sit up the back or in the right seat forever.
I'd happy with anything under 12 years.
I'd hate to be in the back of a 380 at QF or in the right seat of a 330 purely for this reason!
Pilots by their very nature are ambitious and their comes a time when you need to flee the nest and taste the rewards and challenges of being a commander.
None of us joined an airline to sit up the back or in the right seat forever.
I'd happy with anything under 12 years.
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but on the subject of Jetstar, does anyone have any inside goss as to if and when an improved contract will be offered to the pilots based in NZ?
Originally Posted by The Green Goblin
20 years next to grandad and their WW2 era CRM gets a bit tedious.
I'd hate to be in the back of a 380 at QF or in the right seat of a 330 purely for this reason!
I'd hate to be in the back of a 380 at QF or in the right seat of a 330 purely for this reason!
very droll. 
I've been pleasantly surprised with things in that department - although a few are starting to slip through...
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The golden days at AirNZ have long gone. Expect to be an SO or 320 FO for 20 years. Thats the cold hard reality. Some junior drivers are looking to leave Air NZ for that reason. Don't like it? Leave. The system won't change any time soon. There are some pretty bitter people out there.
Anyone hanging in the wings on an illusive "yes letter" should look at Pac Blue or Jet Star. At least the hands on time is recognised by EK which will give you the option to move on. AirNZ SOs don't really have that option.
Anyone hanging in the wings on an illusive "yes letter" should look at Pac Blue or Jet Star. At least the hands on time is recognised by EK which will give you the option to move on. AirNZ SOs don't really have that option.
When you look at the demography of all legacy airlines then you will see that the flat lining is only a matter of time before there will be huge surge through the ranks. The slow down is really a product of the change in retirement ages.
The Air NZ pilots getting onto the Airbus LHS are all approaching 50 and those getting to the B767 and B777 are approaching 60. This is a huge bubble moving through but stalled by the pensioners not leaving the airline.
When this bubble finally bursts it is all going to hell in a hand basket with the movement expected.
The Air NZ pilots getting onto the Airbus LHS are all approaching 50 and those getting to the B767 and B777 are approaching 60. This is a huge bubble moving through but stalled by the pensioners not leaving the airline.
When this bubble finally bursts it is all going to hell in a hand basket with the movement expected.
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Starts in May confirmed with more to follow later in the year.
Also heard that that could be this years quota.
This is a huge bubble moving through but stalled by the pensioners not leaving the airline.
People will always do whats best for them and their family, it's part of being a successful animal and has been so for 40,000 years+.
People who spend time moaning about those who stay on after 60 are wasting their own time and energy. Just forget about it 'cause human nature aint about to change in a hurry.
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and of course when those currently whinging about the old farts in cockpit get to that age, they'll all stay on as long as possible too... 'it happened to me, it's your turn', 'i've got 3 ex's and 4 rugrats to support' and 'retire? the boss doesn't want me under her feet for the next 20 years' etc.