Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific


Old 18th Sep 2012, 01:37
  #981 (permalink)  
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There was a trading was a Saturday!
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Old 18th Sep 2012, 02:36
  #982 (permalink)  
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Let's revisit some of the things said at the 2011 AGM last year.... I think LC has highlighted for himself that he didn't deliver over the past year with regards to the share price.... keeping in mind the grounding which indeed was the next day and it was a Saturday...

It is still my belief that, behind the scenes people knew what was about to happen the next day, including some in Canberra..just can't prove it..
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Old 18th Sep 2012, 03:46
  #983 (permalink)  
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Tim, I also think some had prior knowledge. Joe Hockey said so before back-pedaling at the speed of sound.
Government seizes on Hockey's Qantas comments - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

On ABC TV's 7.30 last night, Mr Hockey told Leigh Sales he heard the aircraft would be grounded "weeks ago".
"They've [Qantas] been saying it. Weeks ago. Publicly and privately, they have been saying for weeks," Mr Hockey said.
Asked if he had heard it "personally in a meeting with a Qantas representative at some time in the past few weeks?" Mr Hockey replied, "Yeah, sure".

Now, how the hell has that not been investigated more vigorously I do not know.
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Old 18th Sep 2012, 03:49
  #984 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TIMA9X View Post
It is still my belief that, behind the scenes people knew what was about to happen the next day, including some in Canberra..just can't prove it..
Everybody who needed to know knew what was happening. The board knew, the executive knew, senior managers knew, major investors had been briefed on the possibility (wink wink), various politicians had been briefed to give them time to maneuver and the media had been flooded with appropriate propaganda leading up to it.

Everyone knew, which is why they got away with it in the media. As for the legal side. Good luck to the unions and the half dozen ASIC staff trying to prove it.
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Old 27th Sep 2012, 09:58
  #985 (permalink)  
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Unless politician and the ACTU wake up aviation jobs will all be lost in auatralia,so far thousand of aircraft maintenance jobs have been lost by outsourcing.SO WAKE UP U LEADERS.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 03:40
  #986 (permalink)  
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The Australian 28/9/12
New Kid Jetstar Japan off to a Flying Start

"The airline has just added it's fifth Airbus A320 aircraft and expects to have 13 by the end of the financial year as it heads towards it's initial commitment of 24 planes"

"Ms Hrdlicka would not say when she expected the Japanese joint venture to break even, noting only that it was ahead if it's business case and was maintaining a cost advantage"

So Qantas International must show a return on the cost of capital before more money is put into capital expenditure. Meanwhile the folly's in Asia continue.

Rumour has it that Qantas has already poured near $600 million into JQ Asia & for what return?
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 04:27
  #987 (permalink)  
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Live in Melbourne site

Occupation snapshot
15,800 aircraft maintenance engineers in Australia1
4,313 aircraft maintenance engineers in Victoria (27.3%)1
Average gross weekly earnings AUD$1,3802
Average weekly hours 42.13
Download the Australian Workforce and Productivity Agency's labour market report for aircraft maintenance engineers (RTF, 134kb)
Victoria is currently offering visa nomination for eligible aircraft maintenance engineers. To be eligible to apply aircraft maintenance engineers must:
have a minimum of five years experience
have an IELTS score of six or above in each band
meet Victoria's other minimum eligibility requirements
address Victoria's*nomination assessment requirements in your application.
Detailed information about applying for Victorian Government visa*nomination is available in the Visas and Immigration section
Licensing and registration
To work as an aircraft maintenance engineer in Victoria you must be licensed or registered with the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). For further information please contact:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA)

CASA Licensing and Registration Centre (CLARC)
GPO Box 2005
ACT, 2601, AUS
Telephone: +61 2 6217 1449
Fax: +61 2 6217 1401
Email: [email protected]
Website: Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Home

Think about applying for licensing and registration before you arrive in Australia, once you have your visa, as the process can take some time.
Industry contacts
Professional bodies and industry associations are a good source of information about aircraft maintenance engineers in Victoria.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association represents its members, providing technical advice, training and networking opportunities
Engineers Australia is Australia's largest and most diverse professional body for engineers.
Finding a job
Aircraft maintenance engineers are employed across several industries including: Transport, Postal and Warehousing; Manufacturing; Administrative and Support Services; and Public Administration and Safety.3

Specialty job seeker sites

Chandler McLeod
John Holland Aviation Services (JHAS)
LTQ Engineering
QANTAS Engineering
Australian JobSearch for Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (Victoria)

We suggest that you only apply for jobs when your visa to live and work in Australia has been issued. The visa application process can take time, and employers are less likely to employ you if you don’t know when you will arrive in Australia and don’t have a work visa.
To search for Victorian recruiters who specialise in aircraft maintenance engineers, visit the Recruitment and Consulting Services Association's Member Index.
For more general information on Victoria’s job market, including where and how to find jobs, and workplace culture, visit our Working and Employment section.

Migrating to Victoria
Detailed information about how to migrate to Australia, including information about visa nomination from the Victorian Government, is available in the Visas and Immigrating section. You can also find detailed information about visa pathways including employer sponsorship on the Department of Immigration and Citizenship’s website.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 12:13
  #988 (permalink)  
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Lets have some more debt

Qantas announces successful refinancing
Published 3:59 PM, 28 Sep 2012

By a staff reporter

Qantas Airways Ltd has announced the successful refinancing of the $300 million undrawn tranche of its unsecured loan facility, which was due to mature in May 2013.

In a statement to the Australian Securities Exchange, the national carrier said the undrawn tranche was increased by $100 million, with commitments accepted from a syndicate of existing key relationship banks.

The revolving loan facility, worth a total of $400 million, will mature in September 2015.

Qantas chief financial officer Gareth Evans said the refinancing reiterates the strength of the company's key banking relationships.

The announcement has no bearing on the Qantas Group's overall debt position.

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Old 28th Sep 2012, 14:04
  #989 (permalink)  
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Is the way forward....???

Qantas's HR man John Scriven shows what he thinks the key HR values are.

It's a pity words don't translate into practice......

It'll be a hard road ahead with Joyce at the helm.

Jon Scriven – Group Executive People and Corporate Services at Qantas
MONDAY, JUNE 27, 2011 AT 12:16PM
Excerpts from Jon’s presentation at the COI Group June 2011 workplace conference.

Jon Scriven gave generously of his time to present at COI’s June conference to discuss what he sees as the key drivers of leadership success, workplace change and workplace effectiveness.

Jon spoke about the importance of the 6 C’s for leadership.

Curiosity and
Jon spoke about the critical drivers of workplace change.

1. The importance of the Senior Leadership Team as owner with ultimate responsibility
2. The importance of Communication
3. The importance of Line Managers

Here are some excerpts.
‘Clarity, Consistency and Character.

Clarity of vision is essential in leadership.
Consistency of message and behaviour builds alignment and trust.
Character – this is about your integrity, your values.
It’s what you do when nobody is looking.
If you are not of good character as a leader, don’t think you can hide it.

Jon then added another three more C's.

Great leaders genuinely care: they care about their people, their customers and their

The next,
Whilst some may believe that curiosity killed the cat what I find is that at the heart of every great idea is somebody who was curious.
Somebody who asked an important question, somebody who was open to how others tackle similar issues, somebody who collects lessons.

The final one is Courage,
Courage to take a position, Courage to be persistent.
Courage to challenge the way things are done.
So the 6 C’s:

Curiosity and
At the heart of those good two-*way communications are good conversations.
I have a view that business is basically a series of conversations between individuals.
Whether it’s buying and selling. Negotiating terms and conditions.
Sorting through facts and agreeing on strategy, talking to your people and agreeing on tasks, timelines and deliverables -* or their wages and conditions.
They are all conversations.
Conflict and disharmony are never good for business, yet it is amazing how often they can occur.
They often occur through ineffective conversations.
Two people can sit in a room and disagree, so how do they move forward?
The first assumption should be that neither of them is stupid: they are there because they are smart and they have used their “smartness” to get to their side in the argument.
The second assumption should be that they are not lacking goodwill.
So if people can’t get to an agreed outcome it is almost certainly because one or both of them is operating on either the wrong facts, or a misinterpretation of them or sometimes wrong mental models.
A good conversation should include sorting through the assumptions and understandings until the root cause of the misunderstanding is reached, and then the dialogue can proceed on a shared basis.

That means not defending your position, but opening it up.
It means genuine questions, and listening to answers.
It means investing the time.
It means being very specific, not generalising.
I know this search for the root cause is a real passion here at the COI.

Of course… it’s the immediate manager who is critical.
They are the ones who build the relationship with employees.
The ones whose day to day actions build or breach trust.
A conversation that generates shared understanding, is based on mutual respect and leads to
agreed actions.
A critical part of the training is helping people to learn how to have a proper conversation.
Now Lanning in his invitation said there are five critical things to know about building high performance workplaces.
Well here are mine:
First: You need a committed leadership team.
Second: They need a clear vision and strategy and aligned values.
Third: You need great front line managers who operate as coaches, managers who are
well trained, able to have meaningful conversations and who are informed about the business and its priorities.
Fourth: People need the tools and resources to play their part.
Finally: There should be ongoing feedback, feedback about performance, feedback about behaviours. Recognition for work done and successes achieved.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 21:22
  #990 (permalink)  
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Let me see how Qantas fared?
1. Clarity? How many times has the plan changed? Fail
2. Consistency? See number 1, Fail
3. Character? Cannot be trusted, Fail
4. Care? Except for their own bonus? Fail
5. Curiosity? Well hasn't learnt from mistakes which keep on getting made, Fail
6. Courage? Hmmmm let's see brave to piss off 75000 passengers in 2011, so therefore in the started aim of further destroying a great reputation of an airline, Pass

Not bad, amazing that the Manager of people with a great résumé, Coca Cola etc would be associated with such a disastrous PR exercise. Macquarie Graduate School of Management use Qantas as the lesson of how NOT to treat your staff and now your customers.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 23:07
  #991 (permalink)  
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All part of the winning formula.....
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

And lets not worry about the bills.
Qantas announces successful refinancing | News | Business Spectator

Last edited by hotnhigh; 28th Sep 2012 at 23:09.
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Old 29th Sep 2012, 00:39
  #992 (permalink)  
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Location: Perth
Posts: 503
Red face Oh Please !

Great leaders genuinely care: they care about their people, their customers and their business.
I nearly puked into my bowl of Fruit Loops -when I read this. Surely -he is speaking metaphorically -'cause he sure as hell ain't talking about any of the current crop of "leaders" at QF.

To have treated all staff with such abject disdain for the last decade has got them into this mess. This combined with the shut down last year -its no wonder customer equate the Qantas brand with Franklins.

Dark days indeed.
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Old 29th Sep 2012, 00:54
  #993 (permalink)  
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Jon Scriven the executive manager of people at Qantas.

Ask any employee who he is or had they heard of him and 99% will have no idea who he is.

Remind them that he's the guy who's initiated the $100 free staff travel vouchers & they'll still say Jon who?

There's a difference between being a good leader on paper & doing the rounds making speeches.

Compared to the reality of running (ruining) an airline & managing it's people.

Last edited by Mstr Caution; 29th Sep 2012 at 00:55.
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Old 29th Sep 2012, 06:56
  #994 (permalink)  
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Pronouncements From The Citadel

Qantas has remote managment who inhabit a citadel and make pronouncements.Problem is they haven't bothered to introduce themselves to the workforce.The chasm between employees and management operate on a number of fronts.Generally management have little expereince in running an airline.Most employees have been involved with the business for 10 or more years.They are stakeholders in the business' future.They know a thing or two about how an airline should be run.Management are referred to as "visitors".They come from outside the business,and have no skillset to run an airline.They are motivated by bonuses which breeds a short termism view of decisions and how they are made.They are not long term stakeholders
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Old 29th Sep 2012, 12:59
  #995 (permalink)  
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The question to be asked is...What is the average years of service for a manager compared to the average years of service for and employee??..Which one has put most into the airline?
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Old 29th Sep 2012, 13:38
  #996 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2012
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The business press is starting to refer to such management as "looter executives". Psychopaths in charge of the size and disbursement of the bonus pool based on KPIs which themselves are so facile as to be counter-productive.

Staff have a career of thirty-odd years compared to the average executive drive-by of five or less. Staff have to live with the idiot decisions of six generations of executives (and their facilitating paid consultants), all the way to bankruptcy court.

Future direction of Qantas? Hint: it has an S-bend, and you circle it before you pass the event horizon.
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Old 29th Sep 2012, 20:40
  #997 (permalink)  
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Parallels with Qantas?

Gunns and the Elites

Posted by Sell on News in Capitalism on September 29, 2012 | 21 comments

An intriguing discussion was had on the Radio National breakfast program this week about the conclusions to be drawn from the demise of Gunns, Tasmania’s biggest paper and pulp mill. It is, sadly, the kind of debate that only occurs in Australia after the fact. People fear creating ripples in a small pond. Plus Australia’s horrifically suppressive libel laws means that strenuous and legitimate criticism of corporate behaviour is rarely attempted, let alone aired. Pick up an American newspaper or magazine, where there is constitutional protection of free speech and easy libel laws and you will immediately see the difference. The kind of negative commentary that occurs in the United States would simply not be allowed here. Instead, we are served up with a perpetual diet of anodyne dissimulation from corporates. The only question is whether the dishonesty is an outright lie, distortion of the truth, a partial truth or spin and exaggeration.
Thus we have to wait until companies die before people dare to be honest. Alec Marr, general manager of Triabunna Investments, which owns Tasmania’s largest pulp mill was not missing the opportunity. He exposed several issues about Australia’s corporate and financial elites which deserve far greater scrutiny, scrutiny they will almost certainly not get. Marr (former executive director of the Wilderness Society) said:
“It’s a sad day that could easily have been avoided by more sensible leadership earlier … It doesn’t matter how big you are, if you are really determined to go off an offend people all over the world, which was what (chairman) John Gay did — he offended the Japanese customers in the woodchip market, he offended the banking industry, he offended the investment community, he sued the community — I mean, those guys just didn’t think gravity applied to them. As a result they have turned a large company into a very small company and that should be a lesson to everybody who gets carried away with spending other people’s money. You have to remember that the vast bulk of this money came from people’s superannuation funds handed over by imbeciles in the investment community — I say that very calculatedly because I and others sat down in front of the CEOs and argued with their fund managers that they should not pour hundreds of millions of dollars of other people’s money into this company — and they did it anyway. And despite repeated massive losses hey just kept pouring money in. It was just crazy.
Apart from saying the kind of thing that he could never have said when the company was still operating and able to sue him, Marr is highlighting some really important issues about the principal-agent problem — how agents of enterprises act on behalf of the owners. In this case there are two agents: the Gunns board, and specifically its chairman, and the fund managers who invest on behalf of superannuants. The latter especially gets insufficient attention, and you may notice that while Marr feels safe to name John Gay, he does not name the CEOs and fund managers in the investment institutions, because they might sue him. As usual, the fund managers get off scott free.
As I have commented before, tongue in cheek, Australia is a Marxist state in the sense that the workers own the means of production. Public companies and many private companies are owned by superannuation funds, which are administering the savings of workers. Ergo, the workers own much of the industry base, including the banks. One might also add that Australia is a Marxist state in that the apparatchiks — boards, senior managers, investment managers and bank managers — really have the power and use it very much at the expense of the ordinary workers they purport to be helping. Anyone who has worked for a period inside a big corporation will have noticed the extraordinary similarities between the absurdities of communist bureaucracies and the absurdities of corporate bureaucracies. Especially in the language. Management jargon is remarkably similar to communist jargon. Meaningless, but with a vicious power dynamic underlying it. The real capitalists are the entrepeneurs and SMEs risking their own money and efforts. Corporations are not capitalist, they are corporatist.
Adam Smith is often quoted as rejecting the joint stock company (the cornerstone of capitalism) in The Wealth of Nations:
“The directors of such [joint-stock] companies, however, being the managers rather of other people’s money than of their own, it cannot well be expected, that they should watch over it with the same anxious vigilance with which the partners in a private copartnery frequently watch over their own…. Negligence and profusion, therefore, must always prevail, more or less, in the management of the affairs of such a company.”
Smith’s defenders have countered that he was referring to a very different entity and what he was really rejecting was monopoly power. But the basic observation is surely right. Those who watch over other people’s money are usually less vigilant than they would be with their own. There have been many solutions proposed, most notably Michael Jensen’s theory of the firm, which contributed to the use of stock options (although of course the main contributor was executive greed). It was theorised that by making executives owners they would become principals as well as agents.
I would suggest that the principal agent problem is to a large extent intractable, and that it cannot be solved by clever manipulation of incentive structures. Expecting it to disappear is to expect that people will suddenly stop enjoying having power and money. It won’t happen. Instead, what is needed is better limits to power, such as avenues for moral censure. That already exists to some extent with public companies, who are subject to AGMs, public scrutiny and the two strikes rule. But it is not possible with the people who have the money: the superannuation firms and their fund managers. As Marr states caustically, they are the ones who hide their bad decisions behind a wall of confidentiality. If we are to move beyond being a Marxist state, that needs to change. (registration may be required to view full article & comments)

Last edited by TheWholeEnchilada; 29th Sep 2012 at 20:42.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 03:41
  #998 (permalink)  
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Jon Scriven - exactly what the problem with 'management' is. What does he actually do? besides giving out the staff travel voucher and sitting at the roadshows drinking Coke, what does he actually offer? He gets paid big bucks for not a lot.

His 'principles' email he sent to everyone on Friday was just laughable.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 20:47
  #999 (permalink)  
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fish Doctor warns about workplace psychopaths

I have studied this phenomenon for ten years. Finally people are waking up.

Qantas is likely to be the first case where company failure is caused by these people.

An Australian psychotherapist is urging employers to watch out for workplace psychopaths, who he says are more common than generally thought.

Doctor John Clarke says workplace psychopaths exist in most large organisations and can isolate and mentally destroy the staff around them.

Speaking at the Tasmanian Work Health & Safety Conference, Dr Clarke said the only way to win the war against these psychopaths is to refuse to tolerate their damaging behaviour.

"When people think of psychopath, they think of a serial killer or a rapist. And they are fairly similar things," he said.

"The workplace psychopath is somebody who psychologically destroys the people they work with to feed their need for a sense of power and control and domination over other

"They don't suffer any guilt or remorse, or in fact they enjoy the suffering of other people."
Bosses urged to watch for workplace psychopaths - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 21:54
  #1000 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Fruitcakes, fruitloops and CEO's

Sunfish, the book "The Sociopath Next Door" is equally disturbing but also when compared to some aspects of QF some might say is a perfect fit. So you have two different personalities, sociopaths and psychopaths, the big difference is one group is pretty obvious but the other is not.

Twin Beech, Love your post. "looter executives", perfect description. I have also heard the term "rapist executives" used as well, in reference to raping the companies finances.

Anyway, welcome to western democracy. A world proliferated by a greedy top tier society, corrupt governments and company executives unscrupulously willing to bury, burn and destroy other humans in the conquest to inflate their own bank balances.The system has been set-up, structured and allowed to support these people and their methodology. Until we stop accepting this as normal behaviour and stop bending over and allowing these turds to get away this we will never be better off, the system will never change and we will be having the same discussions in 10, 20, 50 years time.

Last edited by my oleo is extended; 1st Oct 2012 at 21:55.
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