QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?
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Shon 7, the people would probably react the same way as they did when Gillard announced yet another legup for the car industry, but as the car industry, namely Holden, did not offer any compensation for the money like increased productivity, in fact the car unions on upon hearing the wonderful news immediately asked for a pay rise! So the public are not exactly enamoured by "leg ups" to any industry. Qantas perhaps might be treated a little differently, perhaps nationalisation would be again considered, perhaps not, and in reality Holden and Qantas are and were almost partners in Australia's growth, from the end of the WW2 to the nineties and beyond. As for QF international who knows what money they do or do not make, it is not clear, and many believe money made is siphoned off into JQ, that the truth is not being told, in fact too many believe it for it not to have some basis. Be in no doubt the plan since Dixon was to destroy the QF we know, to hand the basis of it over to the "joey" where the same job can be done for nix compared to QF, whether they planned to totally destroy QF or leave it as a" boutique" airline, only they know, but they will do what they think they can get away with, of that you can be certain, unless some clear thinking individual comes along who believes QF is and should remain the national carrier, and run it accordingly. The next two years will be telling. If I was a S/O now for QF I would cut it and run, if I wanted to stay in OZ I would head to JQ, even if it was a DRW basing or whatever, adjust the families lifestyle to the new wage, (you are still not going to starve) and hope for a command in the next ten years. My second youngest is about to do just that, and I don't blame her one moment, in fact I encouraged it. Its a gamble but then so is life, and once done you can then settle to a new career, instead of looking over your shoulder. This is of course a intensely personal decision, but she is sick of not being sure anymore, its not what she hoped for, or expected, but she is only twenty six with no dependents (well, one cat) and her life ahead of her. This is not to encourage others to follow her, far from it, but it is a action that reflects where QF is today, and never was before, it would have been a unthinkable action even 10 years ago.
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Theresa
I fully agree with your post, such as, if now a Second Officer in mainline, now it the time to leave.
Sadly those at the top of the QF pilot gravy train see no need for a change. Those below just keep up a 'stock together' mantra, and fail to see that the industry has changed.
The employees in QF needed to volunteer and drive changes to their working practices a long time ago. Jeez, talk to BA pilots, they have had 3 paycuts in the last decade or so, but still fly all their own aircraft. They just bought BMI, (the old British Midland), and agreed to work harder in shorthaul and gave up 2 leave days in long and shorthaul to amalgamate the loss-making BMI into BA.
I do not work for either QF or BA, but I would prefer BA to be my employer than QF
I fully agree with your post, such as, if now a Second Officer in mainline, now it the time to leave.
Sadly those at the top of the QF pilot gravy train see no need for a change. Those below just keep up a 'stock together' mantra, and fail to see that the industry has changed.
The employees in QF needed to volunteer and drive changes to their working practices a long time ago. Jeez, talk to BA pilots, they have had 3 paycuts in the last decade or so, but still fly all their own aircraft. They just bought BMI, (the old British Midland), and agreed to work harder in shorthaul and gave up 2 leave days in long and shorthaul to amalgamate the loss-making BMI into BA.
I do not work for either QF or BA, but I would prefer BA to be my employer than QF
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It's certainly strange how qf international has made profit for he last 10 yrs and suddenly its bleeding to the tune of 200 mill.(see previous AGM statements) no mention by exec how after 8 yrs J * aisia make a paltry profit of 18 mill ? Where's the return on capital there ?
Creative accounting at its best!
Creative accounting at its best!
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
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President of cloud cuckoo land
The funny thing with the egotistical disconnected Irish Nupty is that he actually believes his own delusional ramblings. He is forgetting some fundamentals;
• Although QF is ASX 100 listed, it's value has plunged since he took charge, by 83%. Lucky for him that his salary obviously isn't performance based otherwise he would be owing Qantas.
• Stating that he is paid less than other ASX 100 CEO's is true. Somebody better show him the profits of a handful of the other companies as at least those CEO's partially deserve their massive pays, they deliver far more than the little fella.
• Is anybody else sick of hearing this little fella's ramblings about only earning $5 million? He keeps forgetting bonuses, perks and other treats. His earnings are closer to $10 million. There are additional rumors that he has business links to airline service suppliers, consultancies and other interests which earn him an additional $5 - $9 million per year.
I think he should be very very grateful for the fact he gets to extract such a disgustingly high unjustifiable existence out of QF, considering the companies current shape. As for comparing what he does to what pilots do well that is a complete laugh, the difference is obvious;
- Pilots try to strengthen and promote the brand by offering an actual service, under impossible demands each and every day.
- Pilots think of others than themselves at work, they consider the crew, passengers, the reasonable care of the machine they are flying.
- Pilots focus and perform their role based upon processes and safety foremost.
- Pilots accept and acknowledge that their actions could either tarnish the brand, destroy a life or bring negative consequences upon the companies reputation based upon the pilots own individual actions.
AJ's daily concern - me me me $$$$$$.
• Although QF is ASX 100 listed, it's value has plunged since he took charge, by 83%. Lucky for him that his salary obviously isn't performance based otherwise he would be owing Qantas.
• Stating that he is paid less than other ASX 100 CEO's is true. Somebody better show him the profits of a handful of the other companies as at least those CEO's partially deserve their massive pays, they deliver far more than the little fella.
• Is anybody else sick of hearing this little fella's ramblings about only earning $5 million? He keeps forgetting bonuses, perks and other treats. His earnings are closer to $10 million. There are additional rumors that he has business links to airline service suppliers, consultancies and other interests which earn him an additional $5 - $9 million per year.
I think he should be very very grateful for the fact he gets to extract such a disgustingly high unjustifiable existence out of QF, considering the companies current shape. As for comparing what he does to what pilots do well that is a complete laugh, the difference is obvious;
- Pilots try to strengthen and promote the brand by offering an actual service, under impossible demands each and every day.
- Pilots think of others than themselves at work, they consider the crew, passengers, the reasonable care of the machine they are flying.
- Pilots focus and perform their role based upon processes and safety foremost.
- Pilots accept and acknowledge that their actions could either tarnish the brand, destroy a life or bring negative consequences upon the companies reputation based upon the pilots own individual actions.
AJ's daily concern - me me me $$$$$$.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Teresa
How absolutely terrible for your daughter imagine the nerve of Qantas/Jetstar paying $30K for an airbus endorsement for her then only paying a 26 year old a six figure amount - it is just appalling mistreatment.
Tell the public they will riot in the streets for you. They will demand that all Qantas pilots get paid at least $150K for a Second officer, have six weeks leave and fly no more than than 600 hours on average per year.
How absolutely terrible for your daughter imagine the nerve of Qantas/Jetstar paying $30K for an airbus endorsement for her then only paying a 26 year old a six figure amount - it is just appalling mistreatment.
Tell the public they will riot in the streets for you. They will demand that all Qantas pilots get paid at least $150K for a Second officer, have six weeks leave and fly no more than than 600 hours on average per year.
They will demand that all Qantas pilots get paid at least $150K for a Second officer, have six weeks leave and fly no more than than 600 hours on average per year.
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Spanner is right - ads in the Australian, the AFR etc. On my last flight I had pax at boarding saying "thank goodness" they were getting on the red tail and how good it made them feel. I am still blown away by the emotion we evoke in people. And its in large part thanks to managements wonderful "I still call Australia home" advertising I think. People love us, they hate us, but really they love us. We should capitalise on that. I have not seen an "I still call Australia home" ad for a while, I think management may have seen it as a conflict of their current interest? A bit like the John Travolta demo? And I applaud Teresa s post, its very true, regarding the sentiment, the war and bunnings etc. Well written. Maybe we would all be better with just one union? A super power union?
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On my last flight I had pax at boarding saying "thank goodness" they were getting on the red tail and how good it made them feel.
gulp, here goes,
Well, I have a few times... it's a cultural thing.. I'm sure there are a few Brits, Americans, Canadians, Kiwis as well as other Australians on here who know what I am talking about..... they feel the same about their Legacy encumbered national airline/s as well.
In my youth, in my neck of the woods, it was in the unwritten rules to make the gap year pilgrimage to London. (or you haven't lived yet type of peer pressure stuff).. turned out to be a good unwritten rule for me... I learned all cultural Y class SYD-LHR SYD via, via via travel experiences, some pleasant, some indifferent, some downright awful... that's life.. but as I got older and wiser (many Aussies have to fly a long way to get home) I found it nice to rejoin the culture I knew, and paying a little more for a direct flight home with a minimum of fuss became the norm.
For me it was Qantas and for a few years the short lived Ansett International which had a stunning product.. I still miss it..
So here we are today, the Asian LCC's with tiny seats are invading Sydney.....
AirAsia X takes fight to Qantas
As an aside....Her voice reminds me about one of those indifferent Y class missions to London Cabin PA announcements.... long..
IT WAS another sign of the changing face of air travel in Australia.
Low-cost airline AirAsia X touched down in Sydney yesterday, on Qantas's home turf, for the first of the foreign carrier's new daily flights between Sydney and Malaysia.
The no-frills airline - you want water on board? pay for it! -
Read more: AirAsia X takes fight to Qantas
Low-cost airline AirAsia X touched down in Sydney yesterday, on Qantas's home turf, for the first of the foreign carrier's new daily flights between Sydney and Malaysia.
The no-frills airline - you want water on board? pay for it! -
Read more: AirAsia X takes fight to Qantas
(So much for all those meetings in KL guys, as if you didn't know AA were coming.. 
)
Price war looms as first AirAsia flight hits Sydney
In fact, AirAsia X will have a prized “first mover” advantage of nearly three months to entrench its position before Scoot’s arrival, during which time, while still being the price leader most of the time, it will be charging up to 50 per cent more than Scoot’s introductory offers for a seat to South-East Asia.
It’s not until Scoot arrives in Sydney on June 26 that AAX pares back fare levels to match it, with fly-only rates on both carriers (AirAsia X to Kuala Lumpur and Scoot to Singapore) for about AUD192 one-way. That's a fraction of the prevailing rates starting at around AUD913 return.
At the same time, however, AirAsia X is charging up to AUD480 one-way for a ticket from Melbourne to KL.
The seats on both carriers are a super-squeezy nine-abreast in the AirAsia X A330s and 10 abreast in Scoot’s B777-200s.
Scoot will also be flying five days a week from the Gold Coast to Singapore on top of AirAsia X’s five a week to KL.
Jetstar flies only to Bali and Phuket in South-East Asia out of Sydney, with Thailand priced from around AUD365 one-way.
Jetstar is pushing connecting services to its add-on Asian destinations, such as Kuala Lumpur, Phuket, Bangkok and Ho Chi Minh, from Melbourne through its daily Melbourne-Singapore A330 service.
Meanwhile, Scoot appears to be competing only for point-to-point Sydney-Singapore travel as it does not have any formal marketing relationship or connectivity with Singapore Airlines (SIA), its full-service subsidiary Silkair or budget carrier Tiger Airways, of which SIA owns 33 per cent
In fact, AirAsia X will have a prized “first mover” advantage of nearly three months to entrench its position before Scoot’s arrival, during which time, while still being the price leader most of the time, it will be charging up to 50 per cent more than Scoot’s introductory offers for a seat to South-East Asia.
It’s not until Scoot arrives in Sydney on June 26 that AAX pares back fare levels to match it, with fly-only rates on both carriers (AirAsia X to Kuala Lumpur and Scoot to Singapore) for about AUD192 one-way. That's a fraction of the prevailing rates starting at around AUD913 return.
At the same time, however, AirAsia X is charging up to AUD480 one-way for a ticket from Melbourne to KL.
The seats on both carriers are a super-squeezy nine-abreast in the AirAsia X A330s and 10 abreast in Scoot’s B777-200s.
Scoot will also be flying five days a week from the Gold Coast to Singapore on top of AirAsia X’s five a week to KL.
Jetstar flies only to Bali and Phuket in South-East Asia out of Sydney, with Thailand priced from around AUD365 one-way.
Jetstar is pushing connecting services to its add-on Asian destinations, such as Kuala Lumpur, Phuket, Bangkok and Ho Chi Minh, from Melbourne through its daily Melbourne-Singapore A330 service.
Meanwhile, Scoot appears to be competing only for point-to-point Sydney-Singapore travel as it does not have any formal marketing relationship or connectivity with Singapore Airlines (SIA), its full-service subsidiary Silkair or budget carrier Tiger Airways, of which SIA owns 33 per cent
But remember these are low-cost airlines that don’t make most of their profit out of ticket sales per se, but out of optional add-on “ancillaries”.
Just be careful you don’t end up getting sucked into a cheap headline price to find you’re up for squillions for extras.
Just be careful you don’t end up getting sucked into a cheap headline price to find you’re up for squillions for extras.
(for those who haven't seen it)
Join Date: Oct 2011
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TIMA9X "Qantas could counter the attack with simple all inclusive value for money fare structures that may see off the LCC model".....
That won't work with the current cost base. For QF to survive, or even thrive, it needs to reduce its management numbers, and get much greater efficiencies from its crews.
To compete at all with LCC's you need a drastically lower cost base. Just slagging off the CEO won't keep the QF group as a whole out of the red.
That won't work with the current cost base. For QF to survive, or even thrive, it needs to reduce its management numbers, and get much greater efficiencies from its crews.
To compete at all with LCC's you need a drastically lower cost base. Just slagging off the CEO won't keep the QF group as a whole out of the red.
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he can't manage or understand the premium product.
Just slagging off the CEO won't keep the QF group as a whole out of the red.
AirAsia X and Scoot help make Sydney Australia's hub for low-cost long-haul carriers | CAPAJetstar likely to enter Sydney-Singapore
Whereas Scoot served as a nudge to AirAsia X, both carriers, and Scoot in particular, are likely to nudge Jetstar to operate Sydney-Singapore service.
While Jetstar operates long-haul services to Singapore from Melbourne, as well as from Sydney to long-haul destinations including Bali and Honolulu, Jetstar has stayed off the Sydney-Singapore route. This, however, is likely to change this year. Jetstar has slowly taken on traditional corporate markets. The biggest change came last decade when Tiger Airways Australia's entry into Melbourne Tullamarine-Sydney saw Jetstar respond with its own services from Melbourne Tullamarine, whereas it previously served Sydney from Melbourne alternative airport Avalon. In Dec-2010 Jetstar entered the Melbourne-Singapore route, having been previously confined to serving primarily leisure long-haul destinations.
The entrance of Jetstar on Melbourne Tullamarine-Sydney and Melbourne-Singapore raised the matter of cannibalisation of parent company Qantas' traffic and yields. The prospective entrance of Jetstar on Sydney-Singapore will raise that issue even more as Sydney-Singapore (and onwards to London) is thought of within Qantas as a sacrosanct market, and indeed one of Qantas' last after recent route reductions. The entrance of Jetstar would effectively leave Qantas with only Los Angeles as a flagship high-profile route. While this is unlikely to irk astute Qantas senior management that has, against much public headwinds, sought to stem its loss-making international operation, lower managers and Qantas' vociferous unions are not likely to respond well.
The addition of Jetstar on Sydney-Singapore could add 4242 weekly seats, further cementing Sydney's position as Australia's low-cost long-haul hub.
Whereas Scoot served as a nudge to AirAsia X, both carriers, and Scoot in particular, are likely to nudge Jetstar to operate Sydney-Singapore service.
While Jetstar operates long-haul services to Singapore from Melbourne, as well as from Sydney to long-haul destinations including Bali and Honolulu, Jetstar has stayed off the Sydney-Singapore route. This, however, is likely to change this year. Jetstar has slowly taken on traditional corporate markets. The biggest change came last decade when Tiger Airways Australia's entry into Melbourne Tullamarine-Sydney saw Jetstar respond with its own services from Melbourne Tullamarine, whereas it previously served Sydney from Melbourne alternative airport Avalon. In Dec-2010 Jetstar entered the Melbourne-Singapore route, having been previously confined to serving primarily leisure long-haul destinations.
The entrance of Jetstar on Melbourne Tullamarine-Sydney and Melbourne-Singapore raised the matter of cannibalisation of parent company Qantas' traffic and yields. The prospective entrance of Jetstar on Sydney-Singapore will raise that issue even more as Sydney-Singapore (and onwards to London) is thought of within Qantas as a sacrosanct market, and indeed one of Qantas' last after recent route reductions. The entrance of Jetstar would effectively leave Qantas with only Los Angeles as a flagship high-profile route. While this is unlikely to irk astute Qantas senior management that has, against much public headwinds, sought to stem its loss-making international operation, lower managers and Qantas' vociferous unions are not likely to respond well.
The addition of Jetstar on Sydney-Singapore could add 4242 weekly seats, further cementing Sydney's position as Australia's low-cost long-haul hub.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 3rd Apr 2012 at 18:15.
The addition of Jetstar on Sydney-Singapore could add 4242 weekly seats, further cementing Sydney's position as Australia's low-cost long-haul hub.
Factor in a minimum of another Four hours travel time for this, maybe an overnight stay in Sydney as well.
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While Jetstar operates long-haul services to Singapore from Melbourne
The relevant aircraft are "based" in Singapore (despite carrying VH- registrations)!
Therefore it must be the other way round - Jetstar operates long-haul services from Singapore to Melbourne!
Sorry but I really couldn't control my cynicism on this one.
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Interesting perspective - Qantas shows Air Canada who's boss
Qantas shows Air Canada who's boss | Ken Phillips | Commentary | Business Spectator
Qantas shows Air Canada who's boss
"Mayhem erupted across Canadian airports with flight cancellations stranding some 24,000 customers, many who were unable to get their luggage for up to ten hours. Passenger anger resulted in confrontations with Air Canada employees with one employee being spat on, an event that symbolised what Canadians think of their national carrier.
The entire (unresolved) dispute has strong parallels to the Qantas dispute of 2011 with one massive difference. Air Canada management has lost control of its management capacity. Events control it rather than management controlling events. In comparison, through its temporary closing down of the airline, Alan Joyce at Qantas showed that management is running Qantas.
Qantas management have had firm control for a long time. Their 2004 move to start up Jetstar, as a low cost subsidiary carrier competing directly with Qantas has been their saviour. Jetstar has enabled them to take on domestic and international budget airlines and win.
I’ve previously observed that 'Qantas’ is headed to primarily becoming a marketing and brand manager of airlines (Qantas' final destination, October 14, 2011). Jetstar's newly announced expansion into the Japanese and Chinese domestic markets reinforces this. Expect to see Qantas international primarily reduced to the Australia-London and Australia-LA routes.
Where Qantas has Jetstar, Air Canada has failed to kick start a similar ambition for an Air Canada owned, low budget airline. Air Canada unions don’t want the budget airline and have worked hard to block the start up. Now Air Canada is being cannibalised by an increasingly popular domestic low cost carrier, Westjet. Qantas responded to the challenge from Virgin with Jetstar. Air Canada has failed to respond and is suffering the consequences."
Qantas shows Air Canada who's boss
"Mayhem erupted across Canadian airports with flight cancellations stranding some 24,000 customers, many who were unable to get their luggage for up to ten hours. Passenger anger resulted in confrontations with Air Canada employees with one employee being spat on, an event that symbolised what Canadians think of their national carrier.
The entire (unresolved) dispute has strong parallels to the Qantas dispute of 2011 with one massive difference. Air Canada management has lost control of its management capacity. Events control it rather than management controlling events. In comparison, through its temporary closing down of the airline, Alan Joyce at Qantas showed that management is running Qantas.
Qantas management have had firm control for a long time. Their 2004 move to start up Jetstar, as a low cost subsidiary carrier competing directly with Qantas has been their saviour. Jetstar has enabled them to take on domestic and international budget airlines and win.
I’ve previously observed that 'Qantas’ is headed to primarily becoming a marketing and brand manager of airlines (Qantas' final destination, October 14, 2011). Jetstar's newly announced expansion into the Japanese and Chinese domestic markets reinforces this. Expect to see Qantas international primarily reduced to the Australia-London and Australia-LA routes.
Where Qantas has Jetstar, Air Canada has failed to kick start a similar ambition for an Air Canada owned, low budget airline. Air Canada unions don’t want the budget airline and have worked hard to block the start up. Now Air Canada is being cannibalised by an increasingly popular domestic low cost carrier, Westjet. Qantas responded to the challenge from Virgin with Jetstar. Air Canada has failed to respond and is suffering the consequences."
Global News | Feds move to block Air Canada work stoppage
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If the federal government can throw hundreds of millions of dollars to the US based car industry that operates in this country, then why can't they throw a hundred or so mill at Qantas to build a heavy maintenance hangar capable of housing everything up to an A380?
The open skies policy that previous governments endorsed has allowed the nations once great flag carrier to be eaten away by the likes of SQ and EK, so in return, build them a big hangar so they have no excuse for sending work overseas and then throw in a few tax breaks for training apprentices and building the industry up again.
They might even want to build Virgin a 777 hangar as well. Two world class facilities would be better than one.
I think this would get the unions off their backs, prove management are a pack of fools and maybe even earn a few extra bucks.
If the germans can build a big hangar in Frankfurt and charge Euro rates, then surely we can charge aussie dollars and still be competitive.
The open skies policy that previous governments endorsed has allowed the nations once great flag carrier to be eaten away by the likes of SQ and EK, so in return, build them a big hangar so they have no excuse for sending work overseas and then throw in a few tax breaks for training apprentices and building the industry up again.
They might even want to build Virgin a 777 hangar as well. Two world class facilities would be better than one.
I think this would get the unions off their backs, prove management are a pack of fools and maybe even earn a few extra bucks.
If the germans can build a big hangar in Frankfurt and charge Euro rates, then surely we can charge aussie dollars and still be competitive.
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Sunfish,
Yes, regrettably it is true. The morons at CAPA have proven themselves time and time again with each press release they excrete, that, they are, indeed, morons.
The moron who wrote this ...