Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific


Old 20th Jul 2012, 10:35
  #661 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
I agree that there is a niche market for those products...

I guess the thrust of what I was saying is the "masses" pay the bills. Its the people in the back that are the "bread and butter". This is especially so in tough economic times.

I think economy and business is all that is really necessary.

Some carriers appear to aggressively oversell ECON tickets and bump up people to business class as necessary. Not sure how this affects yields or rpks or skews data for comparison....

Domestically, I think the fractional ownership of jets through a provider like Netjets will really savage the business market in years to come.

Last edited by crystalballwannabe; 20th Jul 2012 at 10:41.
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 11:04
  #662 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 477

You are all over the place, may I suggest you re-read your last two posts for how often you contradict yourself with regards to niche markets??? I really hope you are not in QF and even more so a QF pilot. If you are, you really need to do some research into who your customers are, especially if you think safety isn't a priority when booking.
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 11:12
  #663 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
ok - last two posts were not my finest hour.

Will try and do better next time.

As for safety as a key point of difference - Jury has been out on that for Qantas for years. 744 Overun, A330 nosedive, A380 mishap followed by 744 engine failure etc etc

It's also VERY hard to gauge by survey etc.

What is your number 1 consideration when booking an airline ticket:

1) Safety
2) Price

Besides selection bias for which one is listed first people will often select safety although they really choose price. Kind of like asking a man if he looks at porn with his wife present - he will most likely say no, but the truth.....

Hang on - I'm getting all confused again.

Last edited by crystalballwannabe; 20th Jul 2012 at 11:32.
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 14:34
  #664 (permalink)  
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Just listened to the new QF theme song on another (now locked) thread.
I think it is particularly relevant to this thread - it symbolises where Qantas is headed.
No real substance, nothing about the product, and lots of moaning.
What a senseless waste.
Standing by for incoming.....
Apparently Ben Stiller has just been signed up to resurrect his character as Zoolander as the official face of Qantas.

It is reported the Qantas CEO Alan Joyce was overheard saying "the Blue Steele look symbolises the sincerity and honesty of his management team that the travelling public has come to expect".

Also have been informed that AJ has a part in the next Zoolander movie. He plays the part of a Corporate executive that exploits cheap asian labour.

Last edited by Stalins ugly Brother; 20th Jul 2012 at 14:39.
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 16:08
  #665 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: London-Thailand-Australia
Age: 11
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what a tragic loss Borgetti was,

It simply makes you realise what a tragic loss Borgetti was, imagine how QF would be firing along now. my bold, from TG's post 361 back in May this thread
appears so...


Standing by for incoming.....
you got it...

Qantas anger over Etihad and 'everything' has a downside | Plane Talking
There are a lot of challenges facing Qantas, but surely none as large or fundamental as those it has made for itself.
One of the most troubling is its gradual introduction into the language of market guidance of its concerns over domestic yields. Until recently the airline’s guidance was that domestic was strong and it was was being dragged down by its international flights, which it is mitigating by cutting back on them, thus creating even more room for carriers like the evil Etihadians and Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific to take even more passengers off Qantas more rapidly than they might have envisaged.

Although tougher competition will come at the expense of airlines' bottom lines, the airports face the prospect of large increases in passengers as Qantas and Virgin Australia step up their battle in the domestic market by boosting flight frequencies.

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

ETIHAD Airways chief executive James Hogan has blasted Qantas for being un-Australian in its campaign to undermine his airline's investment in Virgin Australia and has pledged that the Abu Dhabi-based carrier will never seek to control Virgin. Melbourne-born Mr Hogan said Qantas's hostile reaction to Etihad's bid to increase its shareholding in Virgin to 10 per cent was a ploy to distract from Qantas's own failings.
Etihad yesterday won approval from the Foreign Investment Review Board to lift its stake in Virgin from 5 per cent to 10 per cent. It is understood it was given the green light because 10 per cent was not close to a controlling interest and was lower than the shareholdings of existing foreign shareholders Virgin Group, which has 26 per cent, and Air New Zealand, with 19.9 per cent.
Qantas, which refused to comment last night, has privately warned the Gillard government that its existence will be threatened by Etihad's investment in Virgin, because the airline is owned by the government of the oil-rich United Arab Emirates and could bankroll a major attack on Qantas's domestic markets via Virgin. In a backroom lobbying campaign against the Virgin investment, Qantas has portrayed Etihad as a plaything for oil-rich sheiks, saying in a leaked briefing paper that "Virgin/Etihad will be able to flood the market with capacity until its competition is forced to significantly reduce its own operations or worse".
where to now?

Last edited by TIMA9X; 22nd Jul 2012 at 16:57. Reason: oops - wrong video posted
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Old 20th Jul 2012, 22:30
  #666 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Brisbane
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It's an Add that says nothing. Maybe because Qantas has nothing to say anymore?
It will be a good time to have a piss when that comes on TV.

Note there is no mention of international services. Intentional? Of course, there won't be any soon.
Australia is not home any more, but we all knew that!

It won't rate, another screw up in my book.

I am not looking forward to having it play as boarding music over and over And over again.

Last edited by RENURPP; 20th Jul 2012 at 22:31.
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 01:10
  #667 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
If 8/10 Aussies are leaving on foreign carriers why don't QF get Lara Bingle back into that Bikini and ask "So where the bloody hell are you"

She could also claim the Zoolander "Actor slash model and not the other way around" award with her "hit" TV show.

I suppose JB will be Hansel "He's so hot right now".
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 01:49
  #668 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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I think the new ad captures the "lost and wandering aimlessly" vibe admirably.
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 12:28
  #669 (permalink)  
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Last edited by MELKBQF; 23rd Jul 2012 at 13:24.
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 12:47
  #670 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: dessert island
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There's one scene in the ad that I just don't get. A truck had some sort of massive lose and theres oranges all over the road, and a punch buggy parked behind...
I've watched it several times and it still doesn't make any sense.
Can someone put me out of my misery?
Not one visual of an aircraft anywhere?
The music track would sound good at a funeral.
I'm not saying it's a bad music track... Just doesnt fit?
I preferred the kids singing on ayres rock
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 12:51
  #671 (permalink)  
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Ps, Lara bingle in a bikini will do alot more for the airline than a shot of spilled oranges in front of a punch buggy
(Well said that man)
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 13:08
  #672 (permalink)  
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In the last 5 seconds of the ad, you will notice a portrait of many faces that pans out. Look carefully around the butt of the kangaroo and you will see the entire executive team. Was this a piss take from the advertising agency?
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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 21:04
  #673 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 356

Think about it, you have the colour orange involved in an accident.
In Qantas terms, what could that mean I wonder?

Is, was, will be, the colour orange and an accident, how does that refer to the Qantas story.......

Last edited by Mud Skipper; 24th Jul 2012 at 00:56.
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 00:49
  #674 (permalink)  
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 04:12
  #675 (permalink)  
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It's a strange ad. There's no picture of the product or any focus on what it is. If you were an alien watching the ad you'd be hard placed to work out what Qantas actually do. It's not exciting enough to drag you in (like some of the esoteric beer ads such as the moose ad from the same agency, where you think 'WTF are they advertising here? I've got to watch and find out') and it's all rather bland.

The agency have done some very striking advertisements for other companies (particularly the current Hahn ad), but this isn't one of them. Maybe everyone was trying to be a bit too clever, but I don't know why Qantas is pushing for 'clever' advertising when its competitors are largely sticking with the 'here's our aircraft full of hot hosties/pilots flying to exciting places' theme. Maybe they're trying to stand out from the competitors, but IMO it's not engaging or memorable enough to stand out from anything. I didn't realise what it was until someone in the room pointed it out to me.
Work | Mojo
why don't QF get Lara Bingle back into that Bikini and ask "So where the bloody hell are you"
Skank advertising annoys a hell of a lot of women, even many who publicly say it doesn't worry them. Potentially alienating half your potential customers from the outset is not smart. In a blokey market (such as V8 supercars for example) it can be effective, but I assume airline ticket customers are pretty much 50/50, so... Even many of the big beer manufacturers are moving away from skanks and towards ads that appeal to both genders. Why? Women buy beer too.

Anyway, I suppose from the agency's point of view at least we're discussing it, and it's still less irritating than the Commonwealth Bank's 'putting the u back in can't' campaign.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 24th Jul 2012 at 05:14.
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 04:32
  #676 (permalink)  
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Qantas looked for some hot hosties to make an add ! They looked for a happy pilot also , could not find an engineer who wanted to be seen as a Qantas employee . Then they went looking for a shiny new jet .
Let's not be to harsh on the add men as not a lot to work with!
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 04:34
  #677 (permalink)  

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Compare it to this one from American Airlines (thanks to Airline Hub Buzz).

?rel=0" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen>

They could have run a virtually identical add, still worked in the 'you're the reason we fly' crap and have had an ad that would actually show what it was all about.

This one is crap. WOFTAM.

Last edited by Keg; 24th Jul 2012 at 04:37.
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 07:56
  #678 (permalink)  
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Management, being the clever buggers they are, probably went to the advertising company with a big cloth bag full of shiny buttons.........

You know, just like they do when they send one of the fleet to an Asian MRO for a major maintenance check..............

'Ya get what you pay for'
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 22:27
  #679 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2007
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The Qantas ad is the better ad on a standalone basis.

The American ad is particularly powerful in context, that being the fact it is a "post 9/11" commercial.

Qantas' agency have gone with the aspirational, the desire, the comfort engagement with customers. If we start from the basis they are targeting discretionary sales (i.e. personal as opposed to business where company policy would rule the decisions) they are looking to get you on board (pun intended) and feel like they will take you away from the everyday and into a fantastic mindblowing holiday. The spilled orange cart is just one example of that, they're going to take you back to a simpler time, a more noble time, when people just did stuff like that as opposed to teh current high pressure environment we work in.

Of course, that isn't true, it's the rose coloured glasses effect. as we look back on things that no longer affect us we think of them as better times, it's much harder to think of current events that are causing us problems in the same context. Humans focus on the immediate, the past is the past and we blank out or at least minimise the bad because that gets rid of the pain and the future is something that, if mentally portrayed as having hope of something better, is where everything is going to get better than it is now.

And it very specifically doesn't go anywhere near price or suggestions of price, it seeks to fight for the market segment that is willing to pay for genuine life experiences rather than just getting away for a holiday because they need to and wanting to do that for as little as possible.

That's what the Qantas ad aims to achieve. I'm not sure it does it brilliantly but it is actually a clearly and cleverly targeted ad. No rushed tourism around clichés like the Eiffel tower for instance, it's about peace and nourishment of the soul in these troubled times where the media are spending a huge amount of effort convincing us how hard life is despite the fact that it generally isn't (for Australians).

The American ad as a standalone is more like a recruitment poster for the armed forces. It's not about the customer, it's too much about the company. As a customer I really don't care about the flight, I want to be at the destination. That ad appeals to people who work at airlines because it gives them a sense of pride in their company, it makes them feel good about themselves, it hits that spot very very hard. Problem is they aren't the target market, I'm guessing very few American Airlines employees pay full price for their tickets. As a standalone it simply doesn't appeal to the discretionary buyer, it's a techo ad.

But then the context comes in. Post 9/11. How incredibly powerful an emotion is it to think the after 9/11 YOU the consumer can fly with an American company using American built high technology to go anywhere in the world. Heck, the company is even CALLED American! You can't get any more patriotic than that so in that specific context, where patriotism is running at an all time high, that's the high impact point. You bring a tear to the eye of the purchaser based on the current situation (the zeitgeist if you prefer) and really tug at them to show their patriotism by spending their dollars with you.

They'll forget the jibes that the food on US airlines is usually the second oldest thing on the plane, beaten only by the cabin crew. They'll forget about the terrible service, the low standards compared to other airlines, everything that customers hate about US airlines is forgotten and even turned into a positive because "they're ours and WE are damn well going to show them we won't lie down".

Run that same ad now and it's just another bunch of techno stuff that isn't that exciting. All I want to do is get from A to B so I can start enjoying myself. If there was a teleportation device to make that happen instantly I'd take it but there isn't. So I'll go with the people who make the experience as pleasing as possible, not the ones who let their ego tell me that all this stuff that I assume they have under control (a hygiene factor) is why I should choose them. They should just do their job and get on with it, I (the customer) much prefer the people who give me that warm inner glow as I go about it.

Sorry if that's a bit long.
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 22:35
  #680 (permalink)  
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Age: 53
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As for Lara Bingle, she's promoting NZ so perhaps not the best choice...

Lurra Bungle suz Nu Zulland ay. Choice!
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