Have you noticed the increase in cabin baggage?
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Southwest Airlines in the US still allow TWO items of checked baggage for free. I think they are the only ones left who do this.
They have the fastest turnarounds of anyone.
Just sayin'...
They have the fastest turnarounds of anyone.
Just sayin'...
I am still amazed that in this day and age of technology we are still using 'standard' weights for pax.
How hard would it be to put a low-profile weighing load-cell in front of the check-in counters., you will then have the pax+luggage+carryon weight.
I mean, at the flaming poxy 'self check-in' kiosks there already is a weigher to weigh the hold baggage, so why not expand the footprint a bit to include the baggage+pax+carryon ?
Sure., there will be technical issues such as people clustering at the counter or self-checkin area, but a bit of 'could you please step behind/off that line' and some basic sanity-checking of the total measured weight would solve that.
If the airlines measured the real pax+baggage+carryon weigh they could then maximise their freight load, but only after taking in to account the captains view of how much fuel to take for the trip + Wx + probable delays.
How hard would it be to put a low-profile weighing load-cell in front of the check-in counters., you will then have the pax+luggage+carryon weight.
I mean, at the flaming poxy 'self check-in' kiosks there already is a weigher to weigh the hold baggage, so why not expand the footprint a bit to include the baggage+pax+carryon ?
Sure., there will be technical issues such as people clustering at the counter or self-checkin area, but a bit of 'could you please step behind/off that line' and some basic sanity-checking of the total measured weight would solve that.
If the airlines measured the real pax+baggage+carryon weigh they could then maximise their freight load, but only after taking in to account the captains view of how much fuel to take for the trip + Wx + probable delays.
Now that is funny.
If the airlines measured the real pax+baggage+carryon weight then they would prove something that they actually already know. Their aircraft are overweight!
Major ripples through the industry with airfares jacked up 10% overnight.
I agree that the technology is available, just as it is for oleo based on aircraft scales. There is no appetite for this for commercial reasons but remember everyone SAFETY FIRST and SAFE SKIES FOR ALL.
If the airlines measured the real pax+baggage+carryon weigh they could then maximise their freight load, but only after taking in to account the captains view of how much fuel to take for the trip + Wx + probable delays.
Major ripples through the industry with airfares jacked up 10% overnight.
I agree that the technology is available, just as it is for oleo based on aircraft scales. There is no appetite for this for commercial reasons but remember everyone SAFETY FIRST and SAFE SKIES FOR ALL.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Good call Kitty, in that the "pay for baggage"has blurred the lines a lot.
Back in the day of the Mk1 F27 which had only 780 gals underwing and 810 gals overwing fuel capacity (and we often had to get Spud Whitely at Wynyard to wingwalk for the extra 30 gallons) we tried to get out ofweight problems by weighing the passengers (36 or 40 max) their bags and hand luggage.
It was quite amazing that the most you would win or lose was around 20kg total.
If the weight problem couldn't be solved quite often the Bomber Command boys and the ex New Guinea guys would modify the load and trim sheets themselves and roll zero flap wet power and if the girl didn't want to unstick they would crank 16 degrees of flap in an suddenly they were at 40 feet.
I was told it was the same in Goroka - just get airborne somehow by the end of the runway and put the nose down into the valley.
Where have those days gone. 200 feet coastal between DPO and WNY, follow the railway line and turn port 20 at the Spencer Division Hospital?
LCCs have thrown away a great deal of common sense for the sake of dollars.
Best all
EWL
Back in the day of the Mk1 F27 which had only 780 gals underwing and 810 gals overwing fuel capacity (and we often had to get Spud Whitely at Wynyard to wingwalk for the extra 30 gallons) we tried to get out ofweight problems by weighing the passengers (36 or 40 max) their bags and hand luggage.
It was quite amazing that the most you would win or lose was around 20kg total.
If the weight problem couldn't be solved quite often the Bomber Command boys and the ex New Guinea guys would modify the load and trim sheets themselves and roll zero flap wet power and if the girl didn't want to unstick they would crank 16 degrees of flap in an suddenly they were at 40 feet.
I was told it was the same in Goroka - just get airborne somehow by the end of the runway and put the nose down into the valley.
Where have those days gone. 200 feet coastal between DPO and WNY, follow the railway line and turn port 20 at the Spencer Division Hospital?
LCCs have thrown away a great deal of common sense for the sake of dollars.
Best all
EWL
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Aviation - Measure everything with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, and then cut it with an axe!
However I think the axe seems to be cutting higher and further to the right each time I swing it.
However I think the axe seems to be cutting higher and further to the right each time I swing it.
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Just looking around the terminals that I visit on a daily basis, one would be hard pressed to find a set of scales that could take the "average" passenger weight these days. Let alone the additional checked and carry-on stuff. Every second punter needs an extension seatbelt 
Last edited by Normasars; 29th Feb 2012 at 08:31.
The carry on baggage issue was aired in the New Zealand Herald recently by the travel columnist. It was a very very good article. Take a look here Jim Eagles: Do carry-on bag hogs get you riled? - Travel - NZ Herald News
There was a follow up article here Jim Eagles: Angry readers react to overhead locker hogs - Travel - NZ Herald News
I particularly liked this bit of the second article
If that doesn't sound very encouraging, Thomas AB suggested a tactic frustrated passengers could adopt.
"Whenever I go to my seat and my overhead locker is full, which happens often, I take out some luggage and put it on the floor. If someone from another row claims it, I pass it on to them to store above their row. Most of the time the stewardess intervenes and takes away their luggage to store it somewhere else. Works for me."
There was a follow up article here Jim Eagles: Angry readers react to overhead locker hogs - Travel - NZ Herald News
I particularly liked this bit of the second article
If that doesn't sound very encouraging, Thomas AB suggested a tactic frustrated passengers could adopt.
"Whenever I go to my seat and my overhead locker is full, which happens often, I take out some luggage and put it on the floor. If someone from another row claims it, I pass it on to them to store above their row. Most of the time the stewardess intervenes and takes away their luggage to store it somewhere else. Works for me."
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Your not wrong, I use JQ fortnightly to NTL to see the family. I am just waiting for someone to bring a small fridge. The stuff that comes on board is unbelievable, tennis rackets, small boogie boards, strange wrapped brown paper parcels, HUGE backpacks, over sized cabin bags, and I think the CC at the gate, knowing the turn around time, feel obliged to let it go, or keep the aircraft on the ground. The cabin is fast becoming part of the cargo hold.
, I can't get my post to show the image... It's of a guy, heading down the aerobridge with a PIANO ACCORDIAN strapped to his back. 
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'TG' perhaps we ought to load all the pax into the lower hold/s as there pressurized anyway & dump the bags/freight in the overhead lockers, at least the freight/bags don't smell & behave like animals in flight!:-)
Once upon a time it was considered a privilege to fly only afforded by the well to do & therefore flying only attracted the well mannered & educated people who knew how to behave & traveled with dignity now it's a free for all & a 'cattle ship' in the sky !!!!
Putting the fairs up to fix a lot of aviation's problems would be at first a backward step as customers wouldn't fly for a little while but like petrol that goes up day after day at first we all bitch & moan about it but we still cue up for it as it's a necessity just like flying is now for the masses. The boguns are hooked
Wmk2
Once upon a time it was considered a privilege to fly only afforded by the well to do & therefore flying only attracted the well mannered & educated people who knew how to behave & traveled with dignity now it's a free for all & a 'cattle ship' in the sky !!!!
Putting the fairs up to fix a lot of aviation's problems would be at first a backward step as customers wouldn't fly for a little while but like petrol that goes up day after day at first we all bitch & moan about it but we still cue up for it as it's a necessity just like flying is now for the masses. The boguns are hooked
Wmk2
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Wally, hear what you're saying but the so called privileged pax can be just as revolting to deal with. Appalling tantrums about having to put their phone down for a whole eight seconds to go through an X ray (But I'm important! It's an important call! Laws don't apply to me!
), Dodgy proposed carry on items like spear guns excused by "but I'm Business Class"...of course violent people can't possibly afford business class fares 
, monster, toddler style tempers because the Qantas Club won't allow twenty inebriated, non-flying friends as 'guests' on one standard Membership card...Pollies who behave like a commercial airline is their own personal RAAF One so they can turn up when they feel like it (departure times and schedules are so plebian, whatddya mean the other 150 pax can't wait for me? I'm Important, they should be grateful to share my air for a couple of hours
)...Massive amounts of undeclared dutiable / quarantine controlled goods because they were 'too busy' to read the declaration properly, particularly the bit that lists the penalties
... 
'em all.
Dealing with pax helps you to realise that a small but significant proportion of humans are basically hairless chimpanzees. Other people may like to differ (and I respect that) but I never saw much difference between the swanks and the ferals in this respect.
The difference with the ferals is that a lot of them aren't experienced air travellers and the rules haven't been well defined. If there was a big message that popped up when you book a ticket saying "this is the max sized bag, you need to wear shoes or you don't get on and don't think we're going to serve you a lifetime's supply of piss in an hour forty flight" and it was enforced with a rod of iron, most people would cotton on quickly. The trouble is, there's no consistency, no clear rules and no set standard about how to behave.
You wouldn't get in to a major city hotel restaurant drunk and wearing thongs and boardies, and most people know that. Why is it different for an airline? That's the airlines' fault for not setting a standard and having the balls to enforce it. Same with bags.
), Dodgy proposed carry on items like spear guns excused by "but I'm Business Class"...of course violent people can't possibly afford business class fares , monster, toddler style tempers because the Qantas Club won't allow twenty inebriated, non-flying friends as 'guests' on one standard Membership card...Pollies who behave like a commercial airline is their own personal RAAF One so they can turn up when they feel like it (departure times and schedules are so plebian, whatddya mean the other 150 pax can't wait for me? I'm Important, they should be grateful to share my air for a couple of hours)...Massive amounts of undeclared dutiable / quarantine controlled goods because they were 'too busy' to read the declaration properly, particularly the bit that lists the penalties... 'em all. Dealing with pax helps you to realise that a small but significant proportion of humans are basically hairless chimpanzees. Other people may like to differ (and I respect that) but I never saw much difference between the swanks and the ferals in this respect.
The difference with the ferals is that a lot of them aren't experienced air travellers and the rules haven't been well defined. If there was a big message that popped up when you book a ticket saying "this is the max sized bag, you need to wear shoes or you don't get on and don't think we're going to serve you a lifetime's supply of piss in an hour forty flight" and it was enforced with a rod of iron, most people would cotton on quickly. The trouble is, there's no consistency, no clear rules and no set standard about how to behave.
You wouldn't get in to a major city hotel restaurant drunk and wearing thongs and boardies, and most people know that. Why is it different for an airline? That's the airlines' fault for not setting a standard and having the balls to enforce it. Same with bags.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 29th Feb 2012 at 11:11.
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Nothing changes, sadly it is the passengers that take the fun out of flying for a living!
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I'm well under the standard weight for a pax and it annoys me that i don't get credit for that. I can't remember the last time i had checked baggage. Even when going overseas i just take a cabin sized bag. Weight limit here in OZ but none in the US. Yes every overhead bin is full in the US no one checks baggage, hell i even saw people with small dogs and cats in a small carry on. There should be a weight limit on carry on bags, when we landed at Salt Lake City after a frantic last second go around we spanked on and a bin popped open and i lost a tooth when a real heavy bag wacked me in the head. Worked out OK tho. Few hours delay then bumped up to first class for the rest of the trip and a fat cheque for next years trip.
FH
FH
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...hell i even saw people with small dogs and cats in a small carry on
I remember a bloke with a kitten in his overcoat pocket which was found at the screening point. The wand person thought it was a toy until it tried to bite her. He kicked up a hell of a stink when he was told kittens weren't allowed in the cabin. Even after the airline offered him a free cage in the hold to make him be quiet (for the kitten, not him, tempting though it was
) he still carried on like a pork chop. From memory, niether of them ended up flying. Pax...
i lost a tooth when a real heavy bag wacked me in the head.
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'worrals' I think yr more ref to the modern day so called educated well to do pax behaving like you described in which case yr mostly correct I was more ref to pax in the era of pre mass transport DC6's etc, they where the 'proper' pax to have aboard:-)
Some of today's bogun pax treat flying as it where just boarding a public bus that is rough as guts to them it's hurry up lets get aboard with as much stuff as we can carry for free & behave like cattle!
Also 'worrals' am not too sure "fencehopper's name is Sue but with a name like 'fencehopper' ya just never know" (sorry 'fence' just a little joke)
Wmk2
Some of today's bogun pax treat flying as it where just boarding a public bus that is rough as guts to them it's hurry up lets get aboard with as much stuff as we can carry for free & behave like cattle!
Also 'worrals' am not too sure "fencehopper's name is Sue but with a name like 'fencehopper' ya just never know
" (sorry 'fence' just a little joke)Wmk2
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What happened to the sizing frames that stood adjacent to the check in counters that served as a guide to the size of carry-on bags? I am apalled at what some airlines let on board nowdays,to say nothing of the extra weight involved.
I recall a little old lady who was relieved of excessive cabin baggage at the gate. Says LOL: "You will be careful with it won't you? It's very fragile". Staff at the gate thought they better ask what was in the bag. Says LOL: "It's my son's crash helmet".
Bell? Arai? Royal Doulton?
Bell? Arai? Royal Doulton?
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So if you operate at MTOW and/OR MLW then you will have in most cases exceeded the stuctural limits of the aircraft.
For example if 200 pax have an extra 10 kg of cabin bag and or excess chub above standard weight then the aircraft could be 2 tonnes heavier than predicted. (not unrealistic).
Can engineers comment on how much buffer is allowed on structural limitations.
For example if 200 pax have an extra 10 kg of cabin bag and or excess chub above standard weight then the aircraft could be 2 tonnes heavier than predicted. (not unrealistic).
Can engineers comment on how much buffer is allowed on structural limitations.