Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Emirates busts Sydney curfew 3 times

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Emirates busts Sydney curfew 3 times

Old 7th Feb 2012, 12:31
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
Posts: 1,000
Keg, can you tell me what happens if the said flight has received taxi clearance prior 2300 (as I believe was the case with another flight I was on delayed) and then a airport wide shutdown occurs for thunderstorms in the vicinity. In Sydney we all know this means nothing moves. Storm passes, oops it's past 11, sorry no go?

Or do they have enough sense to see that those aircraft were indeed ready to taxi prior to curfew? If not then a severe weather policy is definitely needed and all those NIMBYS can go buy some earplugs!!

Last edited by givemewings; 7th Feb 2012 at 12:46.
givemewings is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2012, 15:38
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PERTH,AUSTRALIA
Posts: 156
Never read so many posts from people clearly suffering "Stockholm Syndrome" in my life. At some point in your life, accepting noise is part and parcel of living in any city.
Given how much this fiasco costs the country, it would have been cheaper to buy out every homeowner within the "noise sensitive" area and turn it in to parkland.
To have a system that is so inflexible as to not take into account wx delays etc is unbelievable.
Lucky Country indeed!
Please don't lecture me on the political process in this place, I've been around long enough to see it in practice, aided and abetted by a main stream media that seem to believe that pandering to the ignorant is something akin to a virtue.
RATpin is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2012, 20:47
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Zealand
Age: 61
Posts: 516
There has been an airport on the Mascot site since the year dot, so every person who purchased property in the area knew full well that there would be aircraft noise - and probably got a discount on the purchase price as a result.

It's farcical to have Australasia's main hub shut up shop at 11pm.

Operators might want to consider AKL as an alternative to SYD. AKL would be open 30 hours a day if that were possible.
ampan is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2012, 23:34
  #64 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,311
If an aircraft taxis prior to 2300 local they can depart whenever as long as they depart to the south.
Keg is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2012, 00:43
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Springfield
Posts: 248
A new airport was built at KSA in the mid 90s. 16L/34R significantly changed the distribution of aircraft noise in the inner west and eastern suburbs. It it a distortion of history to claim airport priority.

Re Emirates I'd suggest their lawyers are taking a close look at page 3-4 of DAP-E YSSY NOISE ABATEMENT PROCEDURES 4.5d

Generally pruners if you want the best chance of success for a dispensation then make sure you restrict it as closely to 11pm as possible using the normal curfew nominated runway. Eg Arrive 34L no later than 11.10pm or Taxi for departure 16R no later than 11.30pm. And have a damn good excuse for it!

Bring on 24h RIC civil overflow
Duff Man is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2012, 01:34
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Smogsville
Posts: 1,428
A new airport was built at KSA in the mid 90s. 16L/34R significantly changed the distribution of aircraft noise in the inner west and eastern suburbs. It it a distortion of history to claim airport priority.
Easy, don't use the newer runway during the curfew! 16-34 was built in '59.
SMOC is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2012, 02:18
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
Posts: 1,595
who purchased property in the area knew full well that there would be aircraft noise
Same can be said about Essendon (or Essad'n if you're a
whinging bloody yobbo living under the TO path of 26)
Slasher is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2012, 06:16
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kyeemagh
Posts: 81
16-34 was built in '59
It was a fair bit shorter than 07/25 until the 70s and the 747's arrival which brought it into Botany Bay to its current length. 1967 photo, 1977 photo

Interestingly the current noise sharing and curfew arrangements were introduced in the mid 90s by new PM Howard under the auspices of the then head of Dept of PM and Cabinet, Max the Axe. The government's sale of SYD ensured Macquarie's hold on the privatised airport for 99 years, and pure serendipity got Max the airport CEO gig shortly afterwards.

Would be good to see a brave minority government review the noise arrangements as part of the soon to be released second airport joint study.
Bring on 24h RIC civil overflow
This would indeed change the route structure and airspace, most probably precipitating a review of SYD's noise abatement procedures.
Ivasrus is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2012, 12:39
  #69 (permalink)  
J52
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 33
Remove the bloody curfew - not likely as one pollie will ensure this never happens while he is transport minister. Ultimate was when unions were slow baking Qantas, you would board at 8.00pm for a nice run up to Brisbane. After countless tech problems, PF worried that there are not enough blankets aboard to cover an on board terrorist incident etc etc ad nauseum you would finally get roll back at 10.55pm and engine (1) started, which I understand allows a takeoff after 11.00pm but still pings the company the fine. But hey, what else do you expect? Wonder if a new fed govt will/would change things? Not bloody likely in my view.
J52 is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2012, 21:19
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Zealand
Age: 61
Posts: 516
An alternative to removing the bloody curfew is to turn SYD into a regional airport and build a new 24 hour a day international airport at Alice Springs, from where you can get to Heathrow in a Dreamliner without a stopover.

Last edited by ampan; 8th Feb 2012 at 22:00.
ampan is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2012, 22:44
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 55
you would finally get roll back at 10.55pm and engine (1) started, which I understand allows a takeoff after 11.00pm but still pings the company the fine.
No. If departing off runway 16R the ground controller must utter the magic words "Clear to taxi" before 11:00pm; no fine even if you are airborne after 11:00.

On runway 34L you must be airborne by 10:45pm to avoid the fine.

Certain scheduled flights may land between 5:00am and 6:00am but only on 34L. If conditions dictate 16 is required then you'll have to wait until 6:00am.

Ridiculously, you're perfectly approved to make as noisy a go-round as you like just after 11:00 or just before 5:00/6:00, but don't dare land and trundle through with idle reverse even seconds after or before these times!
C441 is online now  
Old 8th Feb 2012, 23:10
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Zealand
Age: 61
Posts: 516
What a fiasco - and here I was thinking it must have been the fault of the looney left, when in fact it was good old Johnny Howard, Aussie's best PM since Menzies.
ampan is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2012, 02:50
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kyeemagh
Posts: 81
Ridiculously, you're perfectly approved to make as noisy a go-round as you like just after 11:00 or just before 5:00/6:00
But you're required to submit a please-explain report.
Ivasrus is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2012, 06:16
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 26
The curfew has been in place for at least 30 years.

Neither major party has made any effort to relax the rules.

The previous Coalition Government were in power for 11 years and did nothing.

Have a look at the electorates around Sydney Airport - the close in electorates are held by Labour and ones on the flight paths are held by the Liberals - seats like Wenworth (Turnbull) Cook (Morrison) North Sydney (Hockey) Bradfield ( Abbott).

So if anyone thinks there will be a relaxation of the rules - "Tell them they are Dreaming"
MR MACH is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2012, 09:16
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: On a different Island
Age: 49
Posts: 311
When the aviation 'white paper' was being formulated after the 07 Election, one criterion "not for discussion" was curfews... say no more.
Blockla is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2012, 11:00
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12
Why not just give all capital city airports military designation (like Darwin) then we can have movements at any time! Just imagine it, F15, 16, 18's (what a shame the pigs don't fly anymore!) and more taking off at 0100 with burners lit up then doing a low level pass over Sydney harbor! A planespotters wet dream:o!
Eddie Bauer is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2012, 16:13
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,932
If by"pillaging" you mean they fly to somewhere else besides London or LA yes you are correct. I can't see why the Australian traveling public should be limited in travel options just because QF management don't like the idea of running a truly international airline.

the Don
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2012, 23:43
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 262
The Herald-Sun article is quite good. It highlights the absurdity of a curfew without any room for commonsense exceptions. It will,sadly, have zero effect.
Kelly Slater is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2012, 01:21
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,742
If by"pillaging" you mean they fly to somewhere else besides London or LA yes you are correct. I can't see why the Australian traveling public should be limited in travel options just because QF management don't like the idea of running a truly international airline.
Don, there are two reasons why QF is contracting in both destinations and pax numbers:

1. As you said, an incompetent management who have no idea about how to run a premium international airline &

2. Capacity dumping by Middle Eastern carriers who have been unfettered by any government (except Canada). They have been offering fares for many years that are so low that even efficiently run airline can't compete with. Once they have run most of the competitors out of business, the airfares will rise significantly and they will return massive profits. Very similar to what Coles & Woolies are doing to the supermarket business. I believe that Australia should be following the Canadian government's lead in dealing with ME carriers.
Going Boeing is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2012, 02:23
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
Posts: 1,000
A search using both carriers' websites, inputting the same dates for a fare Sydney to London and back, actually shows that QF are approximately $100-150 cheaper than EK. Not taking into acount FF programs, sales, special promotions etc. The next cheapest QF fare was a bit of a hike from the one I found (QF approx AUD1,900, EK approx AUD2, 100

Make of that what you will.

I know which one gives more 'value' in the ticket...

BTW, the QF fare is 1 stop, EK, 2 stops.
givemewings is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.