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Emirates runway incursion SYD

Old 6th Jan 2012, 00:36
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Emirates runway incursion SYD

This morning an Emirates A380 taxing on Golf missed Alpha and went onto runway 16R forcing a JAL 777 to reject and pulled up just short of the A380. A Malaysian 747 was forced to go-around from 500'.

777 had to let the A380 cross 16R as it was so far onto the strip.

Not good.
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 01:29
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Not good indeed. How far down the RWY was JAL when it stopped?
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 02:06
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Judgeing from angryrat's post, just short of Golf!
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 03:03
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hmmm..... even with the 'Runway Awareness and Advisory System (RAAS)'

Honeywell Runway Incursion Prevention Picked by Emirates Airlines
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 03:12
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http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ys...2012-2200Z.mp3

Ground and Director not recorded on the above..

JL772 can be heard receiving it's T/O clearance at 27:32 then again querying something at 28:40 . MH123 is heard only in the missed approach at 3000' at 29:15.
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 04:26
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A lot of flashbacks of Tenneriffe and puckering of orifices going on there .

Lucky the MAS had the fuel for the MA ........ooops that was years ago, sorry.
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 06:10
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O.K. first of all, disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer.

I was not able to hear the controllers. Listening to the live tape, it appears to be edited, ie no stopping call or instruction to stop from/for JAL. No missed approach call from or instruction to MAS to go-around.

Maybe someone from ATC can comment on what I saw and clear up what it appeared to me. PM if you don't want to be identified. Thanks.
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 07:00
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The recording is multi frequency. The missing bits are from other frequencies transmitting at the same time (or at least at the key times)
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 07:35
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The recording is of:

Sydney Approach (North/East) - 124.400
Sydney Approach (South/West) - 128.300
Sydney Tower (Rwy 16L/34R) - 124.700
Sydney Tower (Rwy 16R/34L) - 120.500

Airport Detail: YSSY | LiveATC.net

Earlier in the recording MH123 gets handed over to Director (not recorded), makes sense he stayed on that until he was handed back to Approach.

From the YSSY departures web page it looks like both flights pressed after only a brief delay. Honest question (No malintent here, without knowing how it exactly unfolded), wouldn't the FDR and CVR data have been of some value to the investigation?
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 07:46
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But there's no fatigue issues at Emirates, right?
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 08:12
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But there's no fatigue issues at Emirates, right?
I would think the only fatigue issues would be from the bosses picking up their pay packets.
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 09:11
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Angryrat,

Your second post here is a little confusing. Did you witness the event or is this another rumour?
I think the 380 has a different system to RAAS which shows the aerodrome/taxi chart on the ND in moving map mode.

the Don
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 10:44
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Hi donpizmeov,

I witnessed the end of the event in this order.

I saw the MAS 400 going around and looked to the runway to see if there was a reason.

Initially my view was blocked by a QF aircraft under tow that had exited 16R on Foxtrot but then I sighted the JAL 777.

The 777 had obviously rejected because the speedbrakes were up and it was short of Golf.

The Emirates A380 was on Golf and clearly infringing the runway in the stationary position. From my view wing tip clearance was not assured.

The 777 was then told to hold short of Golf and the Emirates was cleared across 16R and JAL was sent back for depature via Alpha.

Emirates taxied down Golf and entered to backtrack 07 and that is where I stopped following it.

I do appologise if this is confusing. To me at the time, maybe I have jumped to conclusions, but the A380 was stationary, clearly infringing 16R on Golf and the 777 had clearly rejected and coming to a stop short of Golf. Due to not being on 126.5 or 120.5, at the critical time when JAL rejected, I cannot be 100% sure that is what I saw and the possibility that I have missed something else.

I believe that only one of those involved could clear this up or someone from Sydney ATC.
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 10:44
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Don

Go to the web track site and replay that time period. Radar shows a jet on 16R beginning a to roll, and stopping (disappears coz it is at zero speed)

At the same time a B744 is a mile or so out, it the goes around.

Makes the reported rumour quite plausible indeed.
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 19:30
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It's also possible the A380 had no involvement.
MAS sent around due to JAL on the runway. And JAL told to stop to prevent a conflict with MAS once airborne.
It's not an uncommon event at busy airports.
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Old 6th Jan 2012, 20:07
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And the normal taxi for the A380 is via Golf and backtrack R/W 07/25?? I don't think so!

I hate to introduce airmanship into this, but pilots observing a dynamic situation may just take matters into their own hands; JAL guy sees the A380 doing it's thing and stops, while the MAS guys sees the mess and simply goes around. ATC are there to help, not make decisions for you! It's worked for me a couple of times and saved the day.

G'day
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Old 7th Jan 2012, 02:11
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Red Stop Bars

One of the problems with SYD airport is that they have mostly ICAO taxiway signage but NO red stop bars at rwy holding points.

When you fly internationally and rarely visit SYD, you are confronted by red stop bars at all your destinations except SYD.

On the Lido AOI pages, and Jepp Airport pages there should be a large note warning of this.

Or, maybe SYD could invest in the stop bars, in line with other international airports.
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Old 7th Jan 2012, 02:31
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Thanks d.n.s,

Great call by the tower and also great awareness to see what was happening.

Do the tower controllers have any form of an alarm to alert of an incursion?

It must have scared the out of the Emirates crew. They were a long way over the line and I'm sure they absoultely jammed on the brakes.
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Old 7th Jan 2012, 03:58
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Friction

SYD does have "wig wag" lights at every holding point. They are yellow, and the flash. I doubt the majority of pilots are silly enough to need red lights to know when to stop.
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Old 7th Jan 2012, 04:54
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Fatty

One of my pet hates is the holding point system at our major airports.

We have the wig wag lights.

We also have the continuous flashing red imbedded lights, we have the red stop bar system, we have the single line holding point markings, we have the double bar holding point markings and we have the Cat II/III holding point markings. (Sydney has 4 out of 6)

When the authorities here in Australia decide to spend some money on a consistent and ICAO compliant system throughout Australia then they will no longer be part of the problem.

We also have a political policy of deliberately causing congestion, delays, and downright unsafe procedures which overload the controllers and pilots during high peak periods.

Until the political interference is removed and the major Australian Airports can function to world standards as they should and can the politicians are also part of the problem.

Until then....
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