JetStar A321 - insufficient stopping distance
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JetStar A321 - insufficient stopping distance
Misdirected data check led to Jetstar A321 take-off incident
V1 160KIAS and 450m remaining runway at Lift off point.
V1 160KIAS and 450m remaining runway at Lift off point.
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You're kidding me
V1 of 160 kts??!!@You're kidding me, right. Any common sense here?
Tell me ANY commercial jet that has a V1 of 160 kts.
What ever happened to basic common sense checks?
Tell me ANY commercial jet that has a V1 of 160 kts.
What ever happened to basic common sense checks?
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Pretty sure I used a V1 of 160kts on an A320 out of Sydney the other day, looking at my Perf Manual now, 10kts Headwind, 60 degree Flex, Flap 1+F will give a V1 of 160 kts on RWY34L at Sydney. Why exactly is this so absurd???
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Sub Orbital
No one is kidding you, but clearly you don't fly A320/A321s. Or any other large commercial jet, for that matter.
On a runway as long as DRW's (or SYD 34L/16R, BNE 01/19 etc etc) V1/VR combinations of 160 knots (or even a little higher) are both common-place and perfectly within the design parameters of the aircraft's RTO performance, particularly when using un-balanced field length calculations.
In fact the tyres on the 320/321 are rated to 195 knots, so as long as the brakes can handle the energy (which they can), the only limiting factors become TORA, ASDA, obstacles in the splay, reduced thrust parameters and runway condition.
The issue here isn't the V1 speed itself, it's the fact that it was predicated on a full length departure but the crew mistakenly took off from an intersection instead, thus making V1 and the chosen thrust setting (assumed temp or "Flex") invalid.
Common sense is relative to the knowledge you have, I'm afraid.
No one is kidding you, but clearly you don't fly A320/A321s. Or any other large commercial jet, for that matter.
On a runway as long as DRW's (or SYD 34L/16R, BNE 01/19 etc etc) V1/VR combinations of 160 knots (or even a little higher) are both common-place and perfectly within the design parameters of the aircraft's RTO performance, particularly when using un-balanced field length calculations.
In fact the tyres on the 320/321 are rated to 195 knots, so as long as the brakes can handle the energy (which they can), the only limiting factors become TORA, ASDA, obstacles in the splay, reduced thrust parameters and runway condition.
The issue here isn't the V1 speed itself, it's the fact that it was predicated on a full length departure but the crew mistakenly took off from an intersection instead, thus making V1 and the chosen thrust setting (assumed temp or "Flex") invalid.
Common sense is relative to the knowledge you have, I'm afraid.
a cock up .. yes.. but by the grace of god on that one departure the Captain didn't need to yell "STOP!"....
As for the rest of it.... runway 27 in YMML and Runway 34R YSSY...... I'm sure there is not much more than 450m when we unstick (maybe a little more on 34R with the 200m displaced threshold but god it looks like it could make a bad day worse), as with most places that have limiting runways.
Lady luck was looking out that day, but wouldn't have been the first T/O with incorrect V speeds. Just ask the guys in AKL who clean the rubber of the runway, they still get nervous whenever they see a Singapore 747 line up at the far end. I was in stitches when I overheard the quiver in that guys voice. I think they vacated none the less
As for the rest of it.... runway 27 in YMML and Runway 34R YSSY...... I'm sure there is not much more than 450m when we unstick (maybe a little more on 34R with the 200m displaced threshold but god it looks like it could make a bad day worse), as with most places that have limiting runways.
Lady luck was looking out that day, but wouldn't have been the first T/O with incorrect V speeds. Just ask the guys in AKL who clean the rubber of the runway, they still get nervous whenever they see a Singapore 747 line up at the far end. I was in stitches when I overheard the quiver in that guys voice. I think they vacated none the less
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Lol. You've obviously never taken off in a 744 at MTOW on a hot day in LAX.
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To those quoting high V1 speeds at high weights -
What is the field length ?
So a V1 of 160kts from the intersection (2316m TODA) is normal ?
Maybe this is what sub orbital was referring to in 'common sense checks'.
What is the field length ?
So a V1 of 160kts from the intersection (2316m TODA) is normal ?
Maybe this is what sub orbital was referring to in 'common sense checks'.
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"Maybe" he should have chosen his words with more care?
You're kidding me
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V1 of 160 kts??!!@You're kidding me, right. Any common sense here?
Tell me ANY commercial jet that has a V1 of 160 kts.
What ever happened to basic common sense checks?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V1 of 160 kts??!!@You're kidding me, right. Any common sense here?
Tell me ANY commercial jet that has a V1 of 160 kts.
What ever happened to basic common sense checks?
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Let's put this into proper perspective.
All this blood sweat and tears in Pprune and the media about a couple of relatively minor incidents investigated by ATSB.
Now if the media had unfetterd access to all the QAR reports (unstable approaches, excess airspeeds, flap/gear speed exceedances, high sink rates on final, excessive float, landing long etc), that stream in regularly each day to the domestic and international airline flight safety departments, can you just imagine the screaming headlines about dangerous practices in Australian airlines. Huge bubbles of complacency would burst and we would never hear the end of it all.
All this blood sweat and tears in Pprune and the media about a couple of relatively minor incidents investigated by ATSB.
Now if the media had unfetterd access to all the QAR reports (unstable approaches, excess airspeeds, flap/gear speed exceedances, high sink rates on final, excessive float, landing long etc), that stream in regularly each day to the domestic and international airline flight safety departments, can you just imagine the screaming headlines about dangerous practices in Australian airlines. Huge bubbles of complacency would burst and we would never hear the end of it all.
