Skullduggery in the utopian world of DeeJay Flight ops
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Probity
I don’t think anyone disputes that life on the line at DJ is pretty good. That is not the point of this post. The point is the chosen few that manage us are supposed to lead by example, demonstrate probity, whilst being fair and ethical. Regrettably the current flight ops management have none of these qualities, preferring instead to manage by bullying and intimidation. Porch monkey you want examples.
How about openly tampering with training files (now I am sure you would not want yours tampered with behind your back), condoning the illegal rostering of management pilots (eg run a training course, then pax home and being told your duty finishes when the ground course does so you don’t bust duty limits). If you have the temerity to challenge this you will be threatened with your job. In a recent case a management pilot tendered his resignation only to be told that should he do so he could expect a less than pleasant roster cycle. Or perhaps there is the line check on which the candidate was failed incorrectly. When this error and that of the check captain in question were taken up the chain of command, the victim was blatantly threatened and the whole sordid affair was swept under the carpet.
So, whilst life on the line is utopian (by all means enjoy it) there needs to be a cathartic cleanse to purge the malaise in flight ops management. Hopefully the replacements will have the desired qualities to earn the respect of their peers.
How about openly tampering with training files (now I am sure you would not want yours tampered with behind your back), condoning the illegal rostering of management pilots (eg run a training course, then pax home and being told your duty finishes when the ground course does so you don’t bust duty limits). If you have the temerity to challenge this you will be threatened with your job. In a recent case a management pilot tendered his resignation only to be told that should he do so he could expect a less than pleasant roster cycle. Or perhaps there is the line check on which the candidate was failed incorrectly. When this error and that of the check captain in question were taken up the chain of command, the victim was blatantly threatened and the whole sordid affair was swept under the carpet.
So, whilst life on the line is utopian (by all means enjoy it) there needs to be a cathartic cleanse to purge the malaise in flight ops management. Hopefully the replacements will have the desired qualities to earn the respect of their peers.
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If the things you claim are true, then of course I would be pretty upset. I haven't been here all that long, and I guess I am somewhat insulated maybe as I am not a BNE person. However, one would think that If what you say is correct, then I would expect those affected would have taken things to the appropriate forum. (And that isn't here...) If not, then I would like to hear both sides of the conversation, as there is always more than 1. Don't misunderstand me, I know "some" of the personalities in management up there, and I know some who have decided that being part of "that" team wasn't for them. And I know why. But it won't change unless those affected do something, and if that causes one or two of the incumbents to move, then good. Guess I'm just not really sure why it's here.......
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I don’t think anyone disputes that life on the line at DJ is pretty good. That is not the point of this post.
However, the real point of the post/thread is that certain individuals seem to think a public forum is the place to air their grievances, instead of acting more professionally in their own right by dealing with the issues internally (or by external means available to them through the unions &/or legal system if they feel so hard done by). In other words, what Porch Monkey said.
No organisation is perfect. There will always be certain "outstanding" management types for whom their reputations precede them. I'm pretty certain I know who these people are. I'll also admit that it's easy for me to exhibit a somewhat ambivalent attitude towards them when I'm not BNE based, but like I said in a previous post: instead of getting on here & bitching about it, how about you DO something about it, otherwise this might as well just be another Qantas thread.
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Although this is a general statement and not pertaining knowledge on the current issues or the company, I have judged crew in the past from one or two employment organisations as I couldn’t understand what they were on about regarding company and or management issues whilst things were all fine from my perspective and not effecting me. It made it difficult to kick up stink when there was no reason to. It wasn’t until some if not all those issues then affected me I came to see what they were on about.
When there has been certain work functions and you hear that only a handful of people turn up, and half of them are the organisers then perhaps then it’s not just the opinion of just a few.
Don’t be too judgemental particularly by your own admission you haven’t been there all that long as you never know if you’ll find yourself in their shoes. Hopefully yours aren’t big and red and get stepped on regularly.
I have been quite adamant in my views in the past on the way things should be in a company opposite to the way management perceived things. I have come to see in hindsight and perhaps maturity who’s perception is more correct based on a particular organisations culture? This is not condoning illicit behaviour.
“but I suspect there are some very disgruntled people who did not quite make it to the top of their professional ladder.”
In some places you fit in and others you just don’t. Why do some seem to do quite well and others seem not? Just because you don’t fit in that doesn’t mean you are doing anything wrong! Sometimes people just don’t like you and it’s more of a reflection on them more than it is on yourself.
The sort of issues discussed here are issues upper management should know off and should do something about it to prevent from happening or allowed to happen. In some company’s this sort of behaviour doesn’t thrive and in others well they seem to. Guess then were the problem lies.
Look after each other!!!
Although this is a general statement and not pertaining knowledge on the current issues or the company, I have judged crew in the past from one or two employment organisations as I couldn’t understand what they were on about regarding company and or management issues whilst things were all fine from my perspective and not effecting me. It made it difficult to kick up stink when there was no reason to. It wasn’t until some if not all those issues then affected me I came to see what they were on about.
When there has been certain work functions and you hear that only a handful of people turn up, and half of them are the organisers then perhaps then it’s not just the opinion of just a few.
Don’t be too judgemental particularly by your own admission you haven’t been there all that long as you never know if you’ll find yourself in their shoes. Hopefully yours aren’t big and red and get stepped on regularly.
I have been quite adamant in my views in the past on the way things should be in a company opposite to the way management perceived things. I have come to see in hindsight and perhaps maturity who’s perception is more correct based on a particular organisations culture? This is not condoning illicit behaviour.
“but I suspect there are some very disgruntled people who did not quite make it to the top of their professional ladder.”
In some places you fit in and others you just don’t. Why do some seem to do quite well and others seem not? Just because you don’t fit in that doesn’t mean you are doing anything wrong! Sometimes people just don’t like you and it’s more of a reflection on them more than it is on yourself.
The sort of issues discussed here are issues upper management should know off and should do something about it to prevent from happening or allowed to happen. In some company’s this sort of behaviour doesn’t thrive and in others well they seem to. Guess then were the problem lies.
Look after each other!!!
Last edited by CR-2; 9th Jan 2012 at 10:28.
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Lick lick
I agree entirely with Jim Shoos on this issue. I don't care what the likes of Ad-astra or Porch Monkey have to say, the place is rotten. And no, not all of us are simply disgruntled staff who did not make it to the top of ladder because we didn't deserve it. Some of us got backstabbed, shafted and screwed for no better reason than not being related to the right manager or not accepting an invitation to go to a managers house for a BBQ and wiener kissing exercise.
I wasted almost 10 long years working for this place full of overpaid imbeciles and brown nosing ninnies. Regrets?? Shi#loads!
Those of you who want to come to work, never progress and never wish to change a second of your career then this is the place to be. But those of you who wish to succeed based upon your own merits, skills or passion to climb a career path without giving managements ass a tongue boroscope in the process are in for a rude shock. One day you will get pineappled when it suits them, you can bet your career on it.
As for 'airing dirty laundry or grievances' on this forum, ha, I don't give a flying you know what. I did 10 years, I tried every avenue to no avail, so
em, why should I remain silent, I received no loyalty or dignity and neither shall they.
Jim Shoos go get em mate, spill the goods, show it the way it really is, don't let brown nosers and management footstools try to shut you down. Bring it on!
I wasted almost 10 long years working for this place full of overpaid imbeciles and brown nosing ninnies. Regrets?? Shi#loads!
Those of you who want to come to work, never progress and never wish to change a second of your career then this is the place to be. But those of you who wish to succeed based upon your own merits, skills or passion to climb a career path without giving managements ass a tongue boroscope in the process are in for a rude shock. One day you will get pineappled when it suits them, you can bet your career on it.
As for 'airing dirty laundry or grievances' on this forum, ha, I don't give a flying you know what. I did 10 years, I tried every avenue to no avail, so
em, why should I remain silent, I received no loyalty or dignity and neither shall they.Jim Shoos go get em mate, spill the goods, show it the way it really is, don't let brown nosers and management footstools try to shut you down. Bring it on!
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That wasn't a rant, you ain't seen nothing yet. 10 years of DJ stripped away any niceness and left me with a burning stomach filled with hate.
On the bright side however your compliant and subservient nature will ensure you have a healthy career and attain many wonderful heights.
On the bright side however your compliant and subservient nature will ensure you have a healthy career and attain many wonderful heights.
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Cactus you say the place is rotten, well I think it may be you that is a little rotten. After nearly 11 years at VA I have heard a little of what your talking about, but to carry on like a petulant child like you are, says to me that you wouldn't be happy unless your unhappy.
You talk in both past/present tense about your employment at Virgin. So which is it. Did you man up and leave or are you still here infecting the poor old first officers?
I am far removed from the Brisbane bull**** that goes on, and am just a line captain, therefore I haven't experienced the kniving and backstabbing that you talk about on your quest up the greasy pole.
If your still here I suggest you piss off,because you sound like a real knob and maybe go overseas like a lot of your mates did post 2001, and let those that remain at VA have a happier workplace environment.
You talk in both past/present tense about your employment at Virgin. So which is it. Did you man up and leave or are you still here infecting the poor old first officers?
I am far removed from the Brisbane bull**** that goes on, and am just a line captain, therefore I haven't experienced the kniving and backstabbing that you talk about on your quest up the greasy pole.
If your still here I suggest you piss off,because you sound like a real knob and maybe go overseas like a lot of your mates did post 2001, and let those that remain at VA have a happier workplace environment.
Well said Bugs
I've been here for about 11 years and never experienced anything your going on about Cactus. Loosen your grip before you or something else snaps. Life’s too short to live with hate. ugh:
I've been here for about 11 years and never experienced anything your going on about Cactus. Loosen your grip before you or something else snaps. Life’s too short to live with hate. ugh:
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Ouch
Bugsmasha
I served my sentence and did leave after approximately a 10 year sentence. I have no issue 'manning up' rather than hiding silently in the corner like a pu#sy whipped peaheart.
I never infected any F/O, the company does a good enough job of that themselves
Hmmm your current role would indicate you are one of the backstabbers hence your not receiving the blades in your own back. Still a line Captain after 10 years perhaps? Line Captain on the beautiful Embraer? Says enough really.
And the pole is no longer greasy as all the sliding you did wore the grease of it
Now now, no need to go throwing around 2001 young fella, your turn will come
Break Right,
And your role is???Check-in agent? Still an F/O? Perhaps a content Captain who hoovered his way through the ranks?
Jim Shoos, Exactly my point
You talk in both past/present tense about your employment at Virgin. So which is it. Did you man up and leave or are you still here infecting the poor old first officers?
I never infected any F/O, the company does a good enough job of that themselves
am just a line captain, therefore I haven't experienced the kniving and backstabbing that you talk about on your quest up the greasy pole.
And the pole is no longer greasy as all the sliding you did wore the grease of it
If your still here I suggest you piss off,because you sound like a real knob and maybe go overseas like a lot of your mates did post 2001, and let those that remain at VA have a happier workplace environment.
Break Right,
I've been here for about 11 years and never experienced anything your going on about Cactus. Loosen your grip before you or something else snaps. Life’s too short to live with hate. ugh:
Jim Shoos, Exactly my point
I don’t think anyone disputes that life on the line at DJ is pretty good. That is not the point of this post. The point is the chosen few that manage us are supposed to lead by example, demonstrate probity, whilst being fair and ethical. Regrettably the current flight ops management have none of these qualities, preferring instead to manage by bullying and intimidation. Porch monkey you want examples.
How about openly tampering with training files (now I am sure you would not want yours tampered with behind your back), condoning the illegal rostering of management pilots (eg run a training course, then pax home and being told your duty finishes when the ground course does so you don’t bust duty limits). If you have the temerity to challenge this you will be threatened with your job. In a recent case a management pilot tendered his resignation only to be told that should he do so he could expect a less than pleasant roster cycle. Or perhaps there is the line check on which the candidate was failed incorrectly. When this error and that of the check captain in question were taken up the chain of command, the victim was blatantly threatened and the whole sordid affair was swept under the carpet.
So, whilst life on the line is utopian (by all means enjoy it) there needs to be a cathartic cleanse to purge the malaise in flight ops management. Hopefully the replacements will have the desired qualities to earn the respect of their peers.
How about openly tampering with training files (now I am sure you would not want yours tampered with behind your back), condoning the illegal rostering of management pilots (eg run a training course, then pax home and being told your duty finishes when the ground course does so you don’t bust duty limits). If you have the temerity to challenge this you will be threatened with your job. In a recent case a management pilot tendered his resignation only to be told that should he do so he could expect a less than pleasant roster cycle. Or perhaps there is the line check on which the candidate was failed incorrectly. When this error and that of the check captain in question were taken up the chain of command, the victim was blatantly threatened and the whole sordid affair was swept under the carpet.
So, whilst life on the line is utopian (by all means enjoy it) there needs to be a cathartic cleanse to purge the malaise in flight ops management. Hopefully the replacements will have the desired qualities to earn the respect of their peers.
I agree entirely with Jim Shoos on this issue. I don't care what the likes of Ad-astra or Porch Monkey have to say, the place is rotten. And no, not all of us are simply disgruntled staff who did not make it to the top of ladder because we didn't deserve it. Some of us got backstabbed, shafted and screwed for no better reason than not being related to the right manager or not accepting an invitation to go to a managers house for a BBQ and wiener kissing exercise.
I wasted almost 10 long years working for this place full of overpaid imbeciles and brown nosing ninnies. Regrets?? Shi#loads!
Those of you who want to come to work, never progress and never wish to change a second of your career then this is the place to be. But those of you who wish to succeed based upon your own merits, skills or passion to climb a career path without giving managements ass a tongue boroscope in the process are in for a rude shock. One day you will get pineappled when it suits them, you can bet your career on it.
As for 'airing dirty laundry or grievances' on this forum, ha, I don't give a flying you know what. I did 10 years, I tried every avenue to no avail, so
em, why should I remain silent, I received no loyalty or dignity and neither shall they.
I wasted almost 10 long years working for this place full of overpaid imbeciles and brown nosing ninnies. Regrets?? Shi#loads!
Those of you who want to come to work, never progress and never wish to change a second of your career then this is the place to be. But those of you who wish to succeed based upon your own merits, skills or passion to climb a career path without giving managements ass a tongue boroscope in the process are in for a rude shock. One day you will get pineappled when it suits them, you can bet your career on it.
As for 'airing dirty laundry or grievances' on this forum, ha, I don't give a flying you know what. I did 10 years, I tried every avenue to no avail, so
em, why should I remain silent, I received no loyalty or dignity and neither shall they.
Wow, A couple of days away and some very interesting posts!
At the risk of stating the obvious some people should not be allowed in a cockpit.
Cactus I think you did Virgin a grand favour in taking your talents elsewhere.
For that we are eternally grateful.
At the risk of stating the obvious some people should not be allowed in a cockpit.
Cactus I think you did Virgin a grand favour in taking your talents elsewhere.
For that we are eternally grateful.
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No ejet experience Cactus, just Boeing. Just a line captain because I have a life. Work then go home and enjoy the family.
So where are you now Cactus? And is it any better there? Probably not. I bet you're wondering why your so unlucky that wherever you gain employment, the same ****head people seem to be there. Maybe the problem might just be you?
KNOB
So where are you now Cactus? And is it any better there? Probably not. I bet you're wondering why your so unlucky that wherever you gain employment, the same ****head people seem to be there. Maybe the problem might just be you?
KNOB
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Now now bugsmasha, it is clear you are stressed and angry and you shouldn't command an aircraft while those emotions are taking hold of you !! Calling names is also unprofessional by a pilot of your alleged calibre.
Anyway, I am with another airline, a better one than VA. I earn more money and fly under better conditions including better shifts, great Crews and even a much better management structure that is professional and fair.
Couldn't be happier actually. And the best thing is that the people I fly with are realists and don't hang off Bransons lies an deceptions
Anyway, I am with another airline, a better one than VA. I earn more money and fly under better conditions including better shifts, great Crews and even a much better management structure that is professional and fair.
Couldn't be happier actually. And the best thing is that the people I fly with are realists and don't hang off Bransons lies an deceptions
Last edited by Cactusjack; 12th Jan 2012 at 11:02.
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Thanks triathlon, appreciate your kind sentiments. Yes I have moved on, not too long ago, and very happy in the new gig. I agree, knobs are everywhere and I guess we have all been knobs ourselves at times.
My bitterness stems from the endless amount of 'good will promises' DJ used to bestow upon us, promises of rewards and progression due to some of us well and truly going above and beyond the call of duty for a number of years while the company struggled to gain a foothold in Australia. Then when the time came for promotion, progression and reward they screwed a number of us over, employed external 'mates' and promoted internal 'mates' of which many did not so much as lift a finger to go the extra mile, ever. So yes, my bitterness may come across as shocking or uncooth to some and I accept that, but in my case and others I know we got burned very very badly and in some instances it was costly both financialy and within relationships externaly. My flaw, if it is one, is loyalty. So once betrayed the wounds can run deep.
At my new gig I work extremely hard and remain dedicated to doing a good job. I still go above and beyond but demand that it be a two way street, I scratch the comapnies back and they scratch mine. There is a mutual understanding, an unwritten agreement and a high level of loyalty as a result. Everybody benefits.
I do believe that the greater percentage of my former colleagues (many of whom are still my best mates) are decent, hard working, top people. No questiona at all. And I have always wished and wanted the very best of success for them and that has not changed.
My beef and venom remains for the lick ar#ses, stooges, liars and unloyal turds, although small in number are a large influence.
My bitterness stems from the endless amount of 'good will promises' DJ used to bestow upon us, promises of rewards and progression due to some of us well and truly going above and beyond the call of duty for a number of years while the company struggled to gain a foothold in Australia. Then when the time came for promotion, progression and reward they screwed a number of us over, employed external 'mates' and promoted internal 'mates' of which many did not so much as lift a finger to go the extra mile, ever. So yes, my bitterness may come across as shocking or uncooth to some and I accept that, but in my case and others I know we got burned very very badly and in some instances it was costly both financialy and within relationships externaly. My flaw, if it is one, is loyalty. So once betrayed the wounds can run deep.
At my new gig I work extremely hard and remain dedicated to doing a good job. I still go above and beyond but demand that it be a two way street, I scratch the comapnies back and they scratch mine. There is a mutual understanding, an unwritten agreement and a high level of loyalty as a result. Everybody benefits.
I do believe that the greater percentage of my former colleagues (many of whom are still my best mates) are decent, hard working, top people. No questiona at all. And I have always wished and wanted the very best of success for them and that has not changed.
My beef and venom remains for the lick ar#ses, stooges, liars and unloyal turds, although small in number are a large influence.
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There was significant strain on the caterers in many ports, Melbourne were consistently 30-45 mins late and so was Sydney for the first two days.
It was a shambles, the system was not ready to be implemented, but very senior Virgin people said "it must roll out on that date, or else!"
There wasn't even sufficient equipment in the system to deal with the increased menu demands.
However it sorted itself out very quickly and the new business class food is quite excellent.
It was a shambles, the system was not ready to be implemented, but very senior Virgin people said "it must roll out on that date, or else!"
There wasn't even sufficient equipment in the system to deal with the increased menu demands.
However it sorted itself out very quickly and the new business class food is quite excellent.
What clap trap.
The average Airline Pilot puts to shame most other professionals when it comes to "loyalty" 25 or more years is the norm, quite a lot spend their entire careers with one Airline.
I'd like to see most Airline managers do that!!
The average Airline Pilot puts to shame most other professionals when it comes to "loyalty" 25 or more years is the norm, quite a lot spend their entire careers with one Airline.
I'd like to see most Airline managers do that!!
